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Can Black men play half back


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#21 Trojan

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (LOWFIELD @ Dec 19 2009, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Carl Gibson was never a 6 in a million years, all the people mentioned in my opinion are just filler iners at half back. Im not racist or homophobic i couldnt care less who anyone sleeps with or what colour there skin is, and both threads were tounge in cheek to grinde Robin away from his interview revision, although i do reckon my m8 has a point


Carl played 6 for Batley in a Yorkshire cup tie at P O Road in the eighties. Batley were extremely unlucky to lose. Foxy scored the winning try at the P O Road end after what looked like a Union rolling maul, I wouldn't have given it anyway. It was a shame for Batley, Carl ran the game for them.
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#22 HaroldShand

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:03 PM

QUOTE (distantdog @ Dec 20 2009, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wrong, Carl was a great stand off at Batley, and definitely not filling in because we had no one better. I would suggest Jamaica may not make it as they do not have enough players who are good enough in many positions.


Am I missing something here? I don't recall Carl Gibson EVER playing at stand-off for us??!!
What I'm looking for is someone who can contribute to what England has given to the world: culture, sophistication, genius. A little bit more than an 'ot dog, know what I mean?

#23 distantdog

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE (HaroldShand @ Dec 20 2009, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Am I missing something here? I don't recall Carl Gibson EVER playing at stand-off for us??!!



My memories of him at Batley are of him playing centre and stand-off.

#24 Bob Fowler

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:18 PM

Once again we have received a complaint about the thread asking us to judge whether or not it is racist. In my opinion it is NOT, however, the title suggests that people of a certain coloured skin cannot play certain positions at rugby. In this respect I feel we should be very careful as slipping into racist jargon is easily done. This would be totally unacceptable and I will therefore keep a close eye on proceedings.
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#25 Robin Evans

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:46 PM

It could Bob, as you say, easily end up that way, but hasn't.
I'm made aware of complaints being made and by whom, but I can't for the life of me see where or how racism comes into it.

A conversation between suggy and his black mate, prompted a discussion about the jamaican team and black half backs - (well more about 7's than 6's) and suggy brought it to the forum.

If he'd simply asked the question, " how many good black scrum halves have there been over the last x years and who were they??" - it might not have propted the complaints. Then again, it may have.

I fight inequality as part of my job - everyday! I loathe marginalisation in all it's forms. I'm not seeing it here.


and suggy and Terry, Shaun Edwards had ginger)ish) hair!!!!!! GITS!!!!!! lol!
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#26 Pride & Heritage

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:54 PM

Surely it's only the same as asking how many good white heavyweight boxers have people seen since Henry Cooper?

If that's racist then I'm a dutchmen!!!!



#27 Robin Evans

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:01 PM

and I'm assuming you don't go around plugging leaks with your finger and you're NOT called Johan van der Spliff!! laugh.gif
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#28 HaroldShand

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:17 PM

QUOTE (distantdog @ Dec 20 2009, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My memories of him at Batley are of him playing centre and stand-off.


He might have filled in at 6 due to a severe injury crisis on a single occasion, but he definitely wasn't a stand-off! Wing or centre were the positions he filled for us.
What I'm looking for is someone who can contribute to what England has given to the world: culture, sophistication, genius. A little bit more than an 'ot dog, know what I mean?

#29 jamescolin

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE (HaroldShand @ Dec 20 2009, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He might have filled in at 6 due to a severe injury crisis on a single occasion, but he definitely wasn't a stand-off! Wing or centre were the positions he filled for us.

In my opinion with Eastmond getting the St Helens number 7 shirt that is proof enough. To say that Pryce is not a standoff is wearing blinkers. Wigan scrum half is black. We also have in addition to Samoa, PNG, Fiji, Cook Islands and the Maori team all with scrum halfs and stabd offs, a team starting in Jamaica. Starting or beginng is the operative word. Our friendly Jamacian may not know a lot about RL and may be making a hasty judgement on the few games he has seen. Carl Gibsob was a good player irrespective of where he played. The fact is he played stand off. If he played in other positions bec ause the team had gaps there only shows he had versitility, making him an even better player. Finally it seems there is someone hovering to take offence at every conceivable opportunity. What a sad person in a country where we fought two world wars for freedom of speech. There have been no degrading statements and some very positive ones about black players. Jimmy Russel was a good scrum half in spite of his bow legs. Now I expect the Bow legged PC brigade to be sending messages of objection.

#30 HaroldShand

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE (jamescolin @ Dec 20 2009, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In my opinion with Eastmond getting the St Helens number 7 shirt that is proof enough. To say that Pryce is not a standoff is wearing blinkers. Wigan scrum half is black. We also have in addition to Samoa, PNG, Fiji, Cook Islands and the Maori team all with scrum halfs and stabd offs, a team starting in Jamaica. Starting or beginng is the operative word. Our friendly Jamacian may not know a lot about RL and may be making a hasty judgement on the few games he has seen. Carl Gibsob was a good player irrespective of where he played. The fact is he played stand off. If he played in other positions bec ause the team had gaps there only shows he had versitility, making him an even better player. Finally it seems there is someone hovering to take offence at every conceivable opportunity. What a sad person in a country where we fought two world wars for freedom of speech. There have been no degrading statements and some very positive ones about black players. Jimmy Russel was a good scrum half in spite of his bow legs. Now I expect the Bow legged PC brigade to be sending messages of objection.


I'm not quibbling about the nature of this topic, I'm questioning whether or not Carl Gibson was a stand-off, because I never EVER remember him playing there.
Did he ever play stand-off for Fev?
What I'm looking for is someone who can contribute to what England has given to the world: culture, sophistication, genius. A little bit more than an 'ot dog, know what I mean?

#31 Robin Evans

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (jamescolin @ Dec 20 2009, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Carl Gibsob was a good player irrespective of where he played. The fact is he played stand off


Aye he did Colin, and a blindingly good player and all round nice bloke he was/is. But his better and most effective positions were arguably centre or Full Back. Subjective is the debate.





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#32 jamescolin

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 04:18 PM

QUOTE (Robin Evans @ Dec 20 2009, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Aye he did Colin, and a blindingly good player and all round nice bloke he was/is. But his better and most effective positions were arguably centre or Full Back. Subjective is the debate.

Yes Robin-you are right. But the question was- 'Can Black Men play half back.' In view of the evidence the answer has to be -yes- The question wasn't was he better at centre or wing. If any player has played half back well and is black then irrespective of how well he played in other positions the answer to the question has to be in the affirmative. The fact that he played in other positions just confirms how good he was or is. The same goes for white players. John Newlove played centre as well as stand off. The fact that he played in another position doesn't make him a player that can't play half back.





#33 HaroldShand

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 04:20 PM

I'm still not convinced at all that Carl Gibson ever played stand-off. Can anyone provide any evidence that he actually did?
What I'm looking for is someone who can contribute to what England has given to the world: culture, sophistication, genius. A little bit more than an 'ot dog, know what I mean?

#34 jamescolin

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE (HaroldShand @ Dec 20 2009, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm still not convinced at all that Carl Gibson ever played stand-off. Can anyone provide any evidence that he actually did?

If that is the question and not the one the thread was about then you have had an answer from a Batley fan. Yes he regularly played at stand off. If you are asking about Rovers then he did not play regularly at stand off although he might have had the odd game there. If we go back to the main thread then Gibson was a stand off with Batley and as such qualifies in the terms of the question along with others. Therefore black men have played at half back, can play at half back, and the question is answered.

#35 Trojan

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 05:34 PM

I must admit I don't remember Carl every playing 6 for us - only for Batley, however Pryce when he can be bothered is an excellent no 6. In September 1984 Fev played Bradford at Odsal in a midweek evening game. Hanley played 6 for Bradford, they won 27-10 - Hanley scored 17 points - effectively winning the game for them. Does that answer the question?
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#36 bulldogtrev

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:18 PM

QUOTE (Trojan @ Dec 20 2009, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I must admit I don't remember Carl every playing 6 for us - only for Batley, however Pryce when he can be bothered is an excellent no 6. In September 1984 Fev played Bradford at Odsal in a midweek evening game. Hanley played 6 for Bradford, they won 27-10 - Hanley scored 17 points - effectively winning the game for them. Does that answer the question?

I watched Batley when Carl Gibson played and he regularly played centre/winger before being transferred to Leeds. He was not a stand off if he played there it would have been due to an injury crisis.
Benji Marshall and Frano Botica are other examples of black men playing at stand off.

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#37 Bob Fowler

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 10:42 PM

Let's face it, any person whether Black, White Orane or purple can play in any position if he has the talent. Even Jason Robinson turned out a couple of times for Wigan at half back, it doesn't matter what is on the outside it's what's in the inside that matters and that is how I judge a player. So long as he has heart, skill and always does his best, he'll do for me .
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#38 Trojan

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 11:18 PM

QUOTE (Bob Fowler @ Dec 20 2009, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let's face it, any person whether Black, White Orane or purple can play in any position if he has the talent. Even Jason Robinson turned out a couple of times for Wigan at half back, it doesn't matter what is on the outside it's what's in the inside that matters and that is how I judge a player. So long as he has heart, skill and always does his best, he'll do for me .



TBH I would have said halfback was Jason Robinson's natural position, given his jinking running style.
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#39 rover n out

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 02:50 AM

what about ben black ?? he's an half-back huh.gif huh.gif huh.gif
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#40 Tex Evans Thigh

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 12:46 PM

There are clearly genetic differences between races which account for various sporting specialisms. As people have mentioned black people almost dominate sports such as sprinting and heavyweight boxing. Pacific Islanders would appear to be natural rugby players, whereas I would back a chinese rugby team with bad money. i assume Sri Lanka wouldnt put out a competitive RL team but I doubt a tongan 11 would fair that well over 5 days with bat and ball.

Pardon the pun but I dont think its as black and white as 'can black men play half back' of course anyone can play anywhere but will they excel. In my view black athletes are generally more suited to power and athletic aspects of sport which in RL terms translates to outside backs/possibly back row. This is obviously not always the case and people like Leon Pryce and Kyle Eastmond will show next season that you can indeed have very good black half backs.

Overall I would say that you are more likely to have white players playing half back but this is never going to be exclusive.

One other thing - would Benji Marshall be classed as black? I suppose it depends how deeply you want to break down the term 'race'. Either way he aint a bad half back is he?
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