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Rugby League World Issue 402

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"Rugby"


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#81 paley

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:28 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Jul 27 2010, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this isnt an issue in australia

union is a minor sport, we dont care what they call themselves

what this comes to is, you want australia to call it rugby to help the sports recognition in england

havent we helped enough?


I would prefer it to be called rugby league and for rugby league players to recognise that they play rugby - but, union has decided that isn't on and so australian rugby league does what union wants and denies its own history in order not to make any waves. How do you think the Melbourne rugby team will go next year?
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#82 dallymessenger

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:33 AM

QUOTE (paley @ Jul 27 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would prefer it to be called rugby league and for rugby league players to recognise that they play rugby - but, union has decided that isn't on and so australian rugby league does what union wants and denies its own history in order not to make any waves. How do you think the Melbourne rugby team will go next year?


which melbourne team?

and the name of the game in england is Super League.

what happened to the "r'?

shouldnt you have called if Super Rugby if you wanted to stand up for your rights?

Edited by dallymessenger, 27 July 2010 - 11:36 AM.


#83 RL1908.com

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:33 AM

A 1932 Aust report on "league" that was headlined as "rugby" and went so far as to use the "rugger" word...

QUOTE
The Brisbane Courier - Monday 18 July 1932

RUGBY CLASSIC.
England's Wonderful Rally.

(FROM OUR SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE.)
SYDNEY, July 17.

In a wonderful game that could aptly be termed a Rugby classic England defeated Australia by 18 points to 13 in the deciding match for the ashes before a crowd of over 50,000, providing a gate of 4150, at the Sydney Cricket Ground on Saturday.

It was a triumph for England's superior speed, skill, and handling, allied to the performances of a master tactician in Evans, a constructive genius in Brogden, and a match-winner in Stanley Smith. The honours of the game were England's. Behind 9 to 3 at half-time, they staged a remarkable recovery, and fully deserved their success in a thrilling and exciting second half rally.

It was a great game, cleanly fought, and replete with all the ingredients of high-class Rugger. Clever constructive movements, conceived and executed with bewildeiing pa,ce gems of combinative bnlliance, dazzling individual bursts, magnificent goal kicking, splendid cover defence, and deadly tackling were the features of a game that will be remernbeied as one of the greatest and most exciting in these international contests.

_____________

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#84 paley

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:34 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Jul 27 2010, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
which melbourne team?

and if the name of the game in england is Super League.

what happened to the "r'?

shouldnt you have called if Super Rugby if you wanted to stand up for your rights?


There is a competition called Super League, the sport they play is rugby league - the players are all rugby players.

The Melbourne Rugby team, how will they go next season?
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#85 dallymessenger

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:38 AM

QUOTE (paley @ Jul 27 2010, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is a competition called Super League, the sport they play is rugby league - the players are all rugby players.

The Melbourne Rugby team, how will they go next season?


well at least the nrl actually includes the r in its naming

you talk about the RFU stealing your heritage yet your game doesnt include the term rugby in its naming



#86 paley

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:40 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Jul 27 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well at least the nrl actually includes the r in its naming

you talk about the RFU stealing your heritage yet your game doesnt include the term rugby in its naming


They do include it and it must be a constant source of mystery to them.

The game is called rugby league in the UK - by the way, here's the logo for Super League:


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#87 Bulliac

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:07 PM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Jul 27 2010, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
which melbourne team?

and the name of the game in england is Super League.

what happened to the "r'?

shouldnt you have called if Super Rugby if you wanted to stand up for your rights?


The name of the game in England is not Super League, that's just the name of the top division, just like soccer use Premier League. The soccer people don't call the sport Premier League, it's usually called football, soccer being thought to be maybe a bit old fashioned. In any case a league is just a collection of clubs who band together to organise matches, and is a term used by many different sports.

Historically, RL, RU and American football are all forms of rugby, and all three along with soccer are variants of 19th century football. Hence the variety of names used by clubs in the UK, and all the arguments about which is the correct one. Ultimately they are all correct and are all valid, however much confusion is caused. History is both confusing and complicated, we just need to get used to it. Hell, we've had long enough.

Edited by Bulliac, 27 July 2010 - 12:08 PM.

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#88 paley

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE
History is both confusing and complicated


That will explain why aussie leaguiues have discarded theirs
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#89 dallymessenger

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE (paley @ Jul 27 2010, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They do include it and it must be a constant source of mystery to them.

The game is called rugby league in the UK - by the way, here's the logo for Super League:



wow the "r" is in the logo.

maybe you should tell the people from sky sports that, and all the other RL commentators

all the aussie commentators do mention the rugby in our name

perhaps aussies are just more aware of our rugby heritage?

#90 dallymessenger

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:35 PM

QUOTE (Bulliac @ Jul 27 2010, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The name of the game in England is not Super League, that's just the name of the top division, just like soccer use Premier League. The soccer people don't call the sport Premier League, it's usually called football, soccer being thought to be maybe a bit old fashioned. In any case a league is just a collection of clubs who band together to organise matches, and is a term used by many different sports.

Historically, RL, RU and American football are all forms of rugby, and all three along with soccer are variants of 19th century football. Hence the variety of names used by clubs in the UK, and all the arguments about which is the correct one. Ultimately they are all correct and are all valid, however much confusion is caused. History is both confusing and complicated, we just need to get used to it. Hell, we've had long enough.


following on from paleys argument, gridiron should include rugby in its name to be a more succesful sport in america

Edited by dallymessenger, 27 July 2010 - 12:36 PM.


#91 paley

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Jul 27 2010, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow the "r" is in the logo.

maybe you should tell the people from sky sports that, and all the other RL commentators

all the aussie commentators do mention the rugby in our name

perhaps aussies are just more aware of our rugby heritage?


The sport is rugby league (or rugby for short) the name of the competition is the Engage Super League - it's really not difficult.
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#92 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Jul 27 2010, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
following on from paleys argument, gridiron should include rugby in its name to be a more succesful sport in america


Depends

If you assume that the core elements of rugby at the breakaways are kicking goals, passing, running with the ball, and tackling then American Football could claim the rugby tag. However if you were to be more pedantic you could add caveats which would rule it out:

Passing (not forwards), tackling (with no obstruction allowed)

On secondary elements of rugby, i.e. scrummages, lineouts, and other elements, then RU and RL both had these post-1895 but did NFL after it moved away from Rugby?

I would say that RU and RL have rights to be called rugby but American Football does not

#93 BringBacktheBiff

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 01:17 PM

Who cares let them have the word rugby, in Oz even the league players, fans and commentators refer to RU as rugby and RL as football or league. At the end of the day they were the original format of the game so they have more right to the name rugby (the name of the southern town where the game originated) I for one couldnt care less if they hijacked the word.

#94 dallymessenger

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE (paley @ Jul 27 2010, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The sport is rugby league (or rugby for short) the name of the competition is the Engage Super League - it's really not difficult.


it seems that the way the sport is branded in england by RL people is the problem. not mentioning rugby in the official name is the issue

once you can get your RL officials and commentators to recognize the rugby linkages you can worry about the RFU and australia

to an englishman whose not aware of the history of rugby, the way RL is described causes major problems

#95 Shadow

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (BringBacktheBiff @ Jul 27 2010, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who cares let them have the word rugby, in Oz even the league players, fans and commentators refer to RU as rugby and RL as football or league. At the end of the day they were the original format of the game so they have more right to the name rugby (the name of the southern town where the game originated) I for one couldnt care less if they hijacked the word.


I think you'll find Rugby is up North tongue.gif
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#96 dallymessenger

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:15 PM

to clarify, it it:

1. super rugby league
2. rugby super league



#97 dallymessenger

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:17 PM

QUOTE (BringBacktheBiff @ Jul 27 2010, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who cares let them have the word rugby, in Oz even the league players, fans and commentators refer to RU as rugby and RL as football or league. At the end of the day they were the original format of the game so they have more right to the name rugby (the name of the southern town where the game originated) I for one couldnt care less if they hijacked the word.


union is not the original format of the game. thats totally wrong.

in 1895 half of the rugby game became openly professional, and the other stayed as it was

union has no more right to being original than we do.

#98 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (BringBacktheBiff @ Jul 27 2010, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who cares let them have the word rugby, in Oz even the league players, fans and commentators refer to RU as rugby and RL as football or league. At the end of the day they were the original format of the game so they have more right to the name rugby (the name of the southern town where the game originated) I for one couldnt care less if they hijacked the word.


Your an Aussie right?

It's people like you who have been historically brainwashed by RU

Just how were they the original form of the game? In 1895 there was one set of rules for Rugby and one governing body. In 1896 there was one set of rules for Rugby and two governing bodies (one which became RU and one which became RL).

If modern day RU was an exact replica of the rules of Rugby in 1895 there might be an argument to say that they have more right. However the rules of modern day RU are also quite different to Rugby as it was in 1985

RU has a clear strategy to manipulate this Rugby terminology, and is using people like you to do that

#99 dallymessenger

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:26 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Jul 27 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your an Aussie right?

It's people like you who have been historically brainwashed by RU

Just how were they the original form of the game? In 1895 there was one set of rules for Rugby and one governing body. In 1896 there was one set of rules for Rugby and two governing bodies (one which became RU and one which became RL).

If modern day RU was an exact replica of the rules of Rugby in 1895 there might be an argument to say that they have more right. However the rules of modern day RU are also quite different to Rugby as it was in 1985

RU has a clear strategy to manipulate this Rugby terminology, and is using people like you to do that


bingo

thats actually why this thread is important but paley keeps derailing it re. australia.

in 1895 rugby split in two. same rules, 2 governing bodies.

indeed many current RL clubs were formed before the RFU were formed

#100 jannerboyuk

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:30 PM

QUOTE (Shadow @ Jul 27 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you'll find Rugby is up North tongue.gif

True but then its so sad thats its considered important one way or the other. Where were the first internationals played? Cheltenham wasnt it? And its taken people down there to properly celebrate and mark that in the all golds cup and the cheltenham 9s. And people talk of tradition.
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