Current Australian Super League coaches humiliate themselves

[Hannibal]

Wellsy, you must have missed the point which was laid out clearly at the beginning of the discussion -- the Original Post to be specific. The topic is coaches who have humiliated themselves in leaving northern England for a pay cut and diminished status the NRL. The topic is not players who are homesick or want to prove themselves in the NRL and/or State of Origin.

Many of the players are young and some have very young families. In France as in England they lack the family support network which makes raising children so much easier.

Tony Rea was fired as coach by Ian Lenagan. If Lenagan had not taken over, then I suspect Rea would only have left in a coffin. He loved living in London and coaching the Broncos.

You don't see too many coaches leaving the south of France voluntarily. Walters was fired for incompetence, as I pointed out on this thread and elsewhere. Potter may have been fired because of his introverted personality, or he may have left to pursue a plum position at St Helens, or both. (the gossip is that the shy and introverted Potter was fired from St Helens because didn't get along with people there either). But there is no evidence that Potter left Catalans because he didn't like the life style in the south of France.

David Waite left Catalans because he was not wanted any longer: he is a cold and aloof man, who is considered arrogant by many who have met him. Neither the English nor the French are fond of him.

Anyway Wellsy, I would suggest that you go back to my original post and read it again, slowly. Once you have digested it and grasped the argument, perhaps we can continue the conversation.

Honestly, I have never read so much tripe in my whole life.

You are the No-1 troll on these forums.

If you are putting together these posts with the actual intent of coming across as completely thick, you are a genius.

Well done.

[Viking Warrior]

you forgot to mention matthew elliott and daniel anderson albert, didn't they go back for head coaches jobs ????

or has your selective memory kicked in again................

[foozler]

Yeah, the Aussie head coach of Harlequins loves it there...

Wait a minute...?

Also, what about these:

Adam Mogg leaves Catalans Dragons

"After four years in France, the 32-year-old Queensland State of Origin player has been released for family reasons as he has become homesick."

Greg Bird leaves Catalans Dragons

"Catalans Dragons captain Greg Bird has rejected a new two-year contract and left France to return to Australia."

Kevin Walters ready for Catalans Dragon exit

"I will not be taking up the option in my contract to coach the Dragons in season 2011"

Jason Ryles quits France for Roosters

"Despite being just one season into a three-year deal with France-based Super League club Catalans Dragons, it was Ryles who rang Smith looking for a job back in the NRL, where he believes he has unfinished business and a point to prove.

The 30-year-old, who hails from the Illawarra, said it was largely a homesick girlfriend who had driven him to pick up the phone."

And that's all in the last 6 months. And 3 out of 4 of them left their contracts early. Can't be that much of a paradise in the south of France

2 things to bear in mind with the Aussies playing/ managing in SL;

The Aus $ is at a 25 year high against the

[ParisSurtout]

2 things to bear in mind with the Aussies playing/ managing in SL;

The Aus $ is at a 25 year high against the

Edited July 5, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Wellsy, you must have missed the point which was laid out clearly at the beginning of the discussion -- the Original Post to be specific. The topic is coaches who have humiliated themselves in leaving northern England for a pay cut and diminished status the NRL. The topic is not players who are homesick or want to prove themselves in the NRL and/or State of Origin.

It's the same thing. They are all people. And they are all leaving for similar reasons no matter where they live.

The only difference between a player leaving and a coach leaving is that there are a hell of a lot more playing opportunities than there are head-coach opportunities. You can't just walk into a head coach position like you can a playing one, so you have to take what's on offer. It's hardly humiliation. It's just realisation.

Many of the players are young and some have very young families. In France as in England they lack the family support network which makes raising children so much easier.

Can't this be the same for coaches? Many coaches have young families.

Tony Rea was fired as coach by Ian Lenagan. If Lenagan had not taken over, then I suspect Rea would only have left in a coffin. He loved living in London and coaching the Broncos.

A lot of coaches would stay forever if they didn't get the sack at any club they're at. Not just Australians living in London.

You don't see too many coaches leaving the south of France voluntarily. Walters was fired for incompetence, as I pointed out on this thread and elsewhere. Potter may have been fired because of his introverted personality, or he may have left to pursue a plum position at St Helens, or both. (the gossip is that the shy and introverted Potter was fired from St Helens because didn't get along with people there either). But there is no evidence that Potter left Catalans because he didn't like the life style in the south of France.

Walters wasn't sacked. He has a clause in his contract that he can stay another year if he wanted, which he turned down.

Potter wasn't sacked. He left for a better job. What idiot would sack a coach that got them to a CCF and then to 3rd in SL?

Morgan wasn't sacked. He left for a job of about equal stature at the time (leaving CCSFinalist Toulouse for NL1 play-off regulars Hull KR).

So no, not many coaches at all.

And there is no evidence that any of the coaches you mention are leaving because they don't like the lifestyle, yet it hasn't stopped you starting a thread on it. Can't have it both ways.

David Waite left Catalans because he was not wanted any longer: he is a cold and aloof man, who is considered arrogant by many who have met him. Neither the English nor the French are fond of him.

You mean the position he left to go home to Australia (another one!)?

OK, you make your own little stories again...

Anyway Wellsy, I would suggest that you go back to my original post and read it again, slowly. Once you have digested it and grasped the argument, perhaps we can continue the conversation.

Once you have an argument which doesn't have stupid logic that doesn't apply to other parts of your argument, then people might be able to digest it.

Until then, do yourself a favour...

[boxhead]

Lets face it, Living or Coaching in the North of England is the next best thing to living in Russia or Mongolia.

Its GRIM.

[ParisSurtout]

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 5 2010, 05:43 AM)

Wellsy, you must have missed the point which was laid out clearly at the beginning of the discussion -- the Original Post to be specific. The topic is coaches who have humiliated themselves in leaving northern England for a pay cut and diminished status the NRL. The topic is not players who are homesick or want to prove themselves in the NRL and/or State of Origin.

It's the same thing. They are all people. And they are all leaving for similar reasons no matter where they live.

The only difference between a player leaving and a coach leaving is that there are a hell of a lot more playing opportunities than there are head-coach opportunities. You can't just walk into a head coach position like you can a playing one, so you have to take what's on offer. It's hardly humiliation. It's just realisation.

It is humiliation when you take a huge pay cut and a huge status demotion.

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 5 2010, 05:43 AM)

Many of the players are young and some have very young families. In France as in England they lack the family support network which makes raising children so much easier.

Can't this be the same for coaches? Many coaches have young families.

Nathan Brown's kids are of school age. They could go to school in Huddersfield. They don't need grandmother to look after them while mum and dad take a break. That is why it is so odd when a successful head coach like Nathan Brown is abandoning his job, where the club loves him, for a massive pay cut and demotion in Australia

Justin Morgan's daughter must be close to a teenager by now.

Name the Aussie coach with a family of infants or toddlers.

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 5 2010, 05:43 AM)

Tony Rea was fired as coach by Ian Lenagan. If Lenagan had not taken over, then I suspect Rea would only have left in a coffin. He loved living in London and coaching the Broncos.

A lot of coaches would stay forever if they didn't get the sack at any club they're at. Not just Australians living in London.

My point was that there is no case I am aware of where a London coach voluntarily leaves for Australia after a short stint. But I have cited two examples in the case of northern England.

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 5 2010, 05:43 AM)

You don't see too many coaches leaving the south of France voluntarily. Walters was fired for incompetence, as I pointed out on this thread and elsewhere. Potter may have been fired because of his introverted personality, or he may have left to pursue a plum position at St Helens, or both. (the gossip is that the shy and introverted Potter was fired from St Helens because didn't get along with people there either). But there is no evidence that Potter left Catalans because he didn't like the life style in the south of France.

Walters wasn't sacked. He has a clause in his contract that he can stay another year if he wanted, which he turned down.

Potter wasn't sacked. He left for a better job. What idiot would sack a coach that got them to a CCF and then to 3rd in SL?

Morgan wasn't sacked. He left for a job of about equal stature at the time (leaving CCSFinalist Toulouse for NL1 play-off regulars Hull KR).

So no, not many coaches at all.

And there is no evidence that any of the coaches you mention are leaving because they don't like the lifestyle, yet it hasn't stopped you starting a thread on it. Can't have it both ways.

Wellsy, when you get a good job you might come across the concept of resignation as a convenient cover for a sacking. It is a way to avoid having "fired" on your resume, and a concession by your boss, when he is not mad with you (unlike poor Dunga in Brazil).

Walters was allowed to resign, instead of being sacked, because he was a failure.

I didn't say for sure that Potter was sacked by Catalans. Reread my posts.

I didn't say that Morgan was sacked by Toulouse. I know for a fact that he wasn't.

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 5 2010, 05:43 AM)

David Waite left Catalans because he was not wanted any longer: he is a cold and aloof man, who is considered arrogant by many who have met him. Neither the English nor the French are fond of him.

You mean the position he left to go home to Australia (another one!)?

OK, you make your own little stories again...

Waite went home to Australia to no coaching job because no one in France or England wanted him around any longer. I have had my own dealings with Waite, and I know others opinions of him. So I don't need to make things up. I leave that tactic to you.

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 5 2010, 05:43 AM)

Anyway Wellsy, I would suggest that you go back to my original post and read it again, slowly. Once you have digested it and grasped the argument, perhaps we can continue the conversation.

Once you have an argument which doesn't have stupid logic that doesn't apply to other parts of your argument, then people might be able to digest it.

Until then, do yourself a favour...

The logic of my argument may have gone over your head. Have you ever considered that possibility?

Edited July 5, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[Hannibal]

The logic of my argument may have gone over your head. Have you ever considered that possibility?

Priceless.

[Shadow]

We were talking about Aussies, not Kiwis.

Kiwis can hack northern England because the weather is similar (cold and damp, unlike Australia, and unlike the south of France for 9 months of the year), and because New Zealand is a pretty but boring country --- a bit like Scotland but without the history and charm of Edinburgh. For the average Kiwi ruffian northern England must seem very interesting indeed --- especially when you have the bright lights of Manchester and Liverpool so near, and so many drunken girls stumbling about on the streets, looking for a ride home, on a Friday or Saturday night.

As I have intimated, Aussies find London and the south of France interesting places to go to and spend some quality time. That is why we would do well to give them more rugby league job opportunities in those places.

Hhmm

New Zealand

Northern England

New Zealand

Scotland

You could be onto something.

That or on something.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Shadow

[ParisSurtout]

Hhmm

New Zealand

Northern England

New Zealand

Scotland

You could be onto something.

That or on something.

Hmm, mate as you well know, the top photo of the islet and the sparkling warm water was not typical of New Zealand at all. Most Kiwis don't have warm water beaches nearby. The bottom photo was more typical of some New Zealand scenery. Though it is not a place where 99% of Kiwis actually live. Kiwi rugby league players don't come from either type of locale. They mostly come from the slums of Auckland, which are not pretty at all.

Edited July 5, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[Shadow]

Fixed it.

Top NZ image is the Bay of Islands, a couple of hours north of Auckand.

Bottom NZ image is the Abel Tasman National Park, top of the.South Island

The bottom image is the Cairngorms in Scotland.

Most Kiwis do have warm water beaches within reasonable travelling distance.

[ParisSurtout]

Fixed it.

Top NZ image is the Bay of Islands, a couple of hours north of Auckand.

Bottom NZ image is the Abel Tasman National Park, top of the.South Island

The bottom image is the Cairngorms in Scotland.

Most Kiwis do have warm water beaches within reasonable travelling distance.

Depends what you consider reasonable travelling distance. If you live in North Queensland, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Manly, Bondi (Roosters), Maroubra (Souths), or Cronulla it can be across the street from your home.

If you live in Penrith it can be an hour's drive away, though you may have a river swimming hole nearby.

In New South Wales around Sydney it is warm enough to swim for 5-6 months of the year. South Queensland 7-8 months. In North Queensland it is warm enough all the year round.

I would be surprised if you could find half the days of the summer season (December to February) in New Zealand when it was warm enough to swim.

But anyway the Kiwi (i.e. mostly Polynesian) rugby league players, unlike so many of the Aussies, don't live in those beach locations.

Edited July 5, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[Bitofaboogie]

Both the current successful coach of Huddersfield Giants, Nathan Brown, and the current successful coach of St Helens, Mick Potter, are being considered for the position of assistant coach to Brian Smith at the Sydney Roosters.

What a come down!

Brown may also go back to being assistant coach to Wayne Bennett at St George Dragons, a club where he was once the head coach!

What a humiliation!

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-...00703-zuve.html

Either would be taking a job that involves a massive pay cut, and a massive loss of social status.

Can life in northern England, as head coach of a Super League club, be so dire? Is it just the English weather?

You never hear of coaches at Les Catalans Dragons complaining about life in the south of France. It is rather a falling out with the Chairman of the club, or in the case of Kevin Walters, a failure to perform, that causes coaches to leave Perpignan. All the Aussies speak highly of the southern France life style. In the case of London Broncos, Tony Rea left London because Ian Lenagan wanted a fresh face in the coaching job. Rea himself would have been happy to stay. London is alluring for travelling Australians. The young ones seem to shack up there for years.

However in the northern England clubs it is usually the Aussie coach wanting to leave after two or three seasons, not the club wanting to unload him. The notable exceptions to the Aussie "here for the short term" rule are the still very young Justin Morgan, the uncouth Ian Millward, and the "failed already in the NRL" Shaun McRae. Tony Smith would appear to like the north of England, and he has even become a British citizen. But he just can't seem to hack any particular northern town or city. Note how he has gone from Huddersfield, to Leeds, to Warrington. He can't find roots in one place!

Wigan cannot count on the talented Mr McGuire being there beyond November 2012. With Perth and perhaps Central Coast due to enter the NRL in 2013, McGuire will be in demand and will likely take a plum job in the NRL.

The same applies to Hull KR. If the talented and ambitious Justin Morgan has not been awarded the top job at either St Helens or Wigan for the 2013 season, he will probably head down under as well.

Perhaps there should be more SL coaching positions available in London and the south of France, in order for the best Australian coaches to come and stay long term, and impart their wisdom to northern hemisphere rugby league.

Yes, I would have to concede that the opportunities for cheese-eating are vastly superior in the South of France, it is no-contest in fact.

[Shadow]

Fixed it.

Top NZ image is the Bay of Islands, a couple of hours north of Auckand.

Bottom NZ image is the Abel Tasman National Park, top of the.South Island

The bottom image is the Cairngorms in Scotland.

Most Kiwis do have warm water beaches within reasonable travelling distance.

Depends what you consider reasonable travelling distance. If you live in North Queensland, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Manly, Bondi (Roosters), Maroubra (Souths), or Cronulla it can be across the street from your home.

If you live in Penrith it can be an hour's drive away, though you may have a river swimming hole nearby.

In New South Wales around Sydney it is warm enough to swim for 5-6 months of the year. South Queensland 7-8 months. In North Queensland it is warm enough all the year round.

I would be surprised if you could find half the days of the summer season (December to February) in New Zealand when it was warm enough to swim.

But anyway the Kiwi (i.e. mostly Polynesian) rugby league players, unlike so many of the Aussies, don't live in those beach locations.

You do know the difference between Australia and New Zealand don't you?

Kiwis are from New Zealand. North Queensland, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Manly, Bondi, Maroubra and Cronulla are in Australia.

There may be a large ex-patriot New Zealand community in Australia but I'd still hazard a guess that most Kiwis live in New Zealand.

This and this suggest you are talking ###### about the weather in New Zealand.

[Kiwi-Capper_merged]

Kiwi rugby league players don't come from either type of locale. They mostly come from the slums of Auckland, which are not pretty at all.

you are an ignoramus of the highest order. let me guess you've seen once were warriors on betamax haven't you?

I would be surprised if you could find half the days of the summer season (December to February) in New Zealand when it was warm enough to swim.

Complete nonsense!

But anyway the Kiwi (i.e. mostly Polynesian) rugby league players, unlike so many of the Aussies, don't live in those beach locations.

yes indeed there are no beaches in the Auckland region

Have you been here? in the summer?

[ParisSurtout]

You do know the difference between Australia and New Zealand don't you?

Kiwis are from New Zealand. North Queensland, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Manly, Bondi, Maroubra and Cronulla are in Australia.

There may be a large ex-patriot New Zealand community in Australia but I'd still hazard a guess that most Kiwis live in New Zealand.

This and this suggest you are talking ###### about the weather in New Zealand.

Yo seem confused about why I was making reference to Australian beach towns and suburbs. I was comparing proximity to the beach in Australia vs New Zealand (mainly Auckland, where most rugby league Kiwis are from).

Australians live in Australia, and Kiwis live in New Zealand. But many Kiwis come to Australia for the higher living standards, warmer temperatures and longer swimming season.

Your charts do not disprove what I said. New Zealand has about 3 months of swimming season, and many summer days are not that warm anyway.

Edited July 6, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[ParisSurtout]

you are an ignoramus of the highest order. let me guess you've seen once were warriors on betamax haven't you?

No. I saw Once Were Warriors on Laser Disk. I was shocked and horrified. The Auckland Polynesian rugby union/rugby league community, as portrayed in that film, came across as very scary. No wonder they are so good at both codes of rugby. Only religious people like Adrian Morley have the moral strength to stand up to the Kiwis.

It seems that gentle people like myself and my family would not fit in easily in scary Auckland.

yes indeed there are no beaches in the Auckland region

Have you been here? in the summer?

No. I have never been to Auckland in the summer. But I flew over it and decided that it wasn't for me. I have never been able to erase from my mind the images that I witnessed in the film Once Were Warriors. My wife is scared to land in Auckland. So are my children. After seeing Once Were Warriors they would prefer to holiday in Iraq or Afghanistan rather than set foot in Auckland.

Edited July 6, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[Hannibal]

No. I saw Once Were Warriors on Laser Disk. I was shocked and horrified. The Auckland Polynesian rugby union/rugby league community, as portrayed in that film, came across as very scary. No wonder they are so good at both codes of rugby. Only religious people like Adrian Morley have the moral strength to stand up to the Kiwis.

It seems that gentle people like myself and my family would not fit in easily in scary New Zealand.

No. I have never been to Auckland in the summer. But I flew over it and decided that it wasn't for me. I have never been able to erase from my mind the images that I witnessed in the film Once Were Warriors. My wife is scared to land in Auckland. So are my children. After seeing Once Were Warriors they would prefer to holiday in Iraq or Afghanistan rather than set foot in Auckland.

You really are a cock of the highest order.

[a.n Other]

No. I saw Once Were Warriors on Laser Disk. I was shocked and horrified. The Auckland Polynesian rugby union/rugby league community, as portrayed in that film, came across as very scary.

. After seeing Once Were Warriors they would prefer to holiday in Iraq or Afghanistan rather than set foot in Auckland.

I take it you havent seen Mad Max then or Romper Stomper?

Edited July 6, 2010 by a.n Other

[ParisSurtout]

I take it you havent seen Mad Max then or Romper Stomper?

I have seen both films. Which is why I would never dare criticise South Sydney in the company of Russell Crowe.

Needless to say I would never venture into the Australian desert without a machine gun and a few hand grenades within easy reach. Given the difficulty of acquiring such I take the easy course. In the interests of safety I stay close to the seaside, where most civilised Australians tend to congregate. I am most comfortable sitting on the Esplanade at Manly, with my Bobby Fulton T-shirt, or on the sands of Bondi with my Artie Beetson T-shirt. That way I always get pleasant looks from the locals. If a local rugby league fan wants to strike up a conversation, I usually tell them about the Harlequins or the Catalans or Toulouse --- which most of them don't know about -- and how important it is for them to come visit London and Perpignan and Toulouse to support these clubs. Generally I tend to tell them how lucky they are to live near the seaside in a warm, safe country like Australia, and if they want to see the world, it's best to avoid damp, cold, boring places like Wakefield and Castleford, and damp, cold, dangerous places like Auckland, where the Jake Hekes of this world still run rampant.

The places to visit in New Zealand are said to be all on the south Island, with Queenstown the pick of the crop.

Edited July 6, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[a.n Other]

I have seen both films. Which is why I would never dare criticise South Sydney in the company of Russell Crowe.

Why not? You do realise he was just "pretending" to be a racist skinhead......don't you?

[Segovia Carpet]

One of the biggest catches of all time for Mr Rosenfield. Well done indeed.

[Kiwi-Capper_merged]

(mainly Auckland, where most rugby league Kiwis are from).

you forgot to mention the slums

Edited July 6, 2010 by Kiwi-Capper_merged

[ParisSurtout]

you forgot to mention the slums

I did not want to rub it in too much, that's all.

Since your user name suggests that you are apparently both a Kiwi and a fervent traditionalist, I wonder if are you an admirer of Jake Heke?

Edited July 6, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[amm]

Nathan Brown is staying at Huddersfield - it's a lovely place

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