Bad times in West Cumbria

[tim2]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8797367.stm

When I saw Whitehaven at Fev earlier this year they looked like relegation candidates. They now look even more like thy're going down. The finacial situation has been a concern for some time now, and relegation will certainly not help that.

Workington are no closer to a revival at present and the chances of a West Cumbrian SL team seem to lie only with both clubs going bust and being forced by this into a merger, as any other sort of merger seems highly unlikely.

[guess who]

If they go into admin before the end of the season, do they suffer 9 point deduction or will they have to wait for the start of next season?

[Wendall]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8797367.stm

When I saw Whitehaven at Fev earlier this year they looked like relegation candidates. They now look even more like thy're going down. The finacial situation has been a concern for some time now, and relegation will certainly not help that.

Workington are no closer to a revival at present and the chances of a West Cumbrian SL team seem to lie only with both clubs going bust and being forced by this into a merger, as any other sort of merger seems highly unlikely.

That could be the only way out and the successful way to get a Cumbria SL team. But what stadium would they play out of, is the new ground proposed gonna go ahead?

West Cumbria Walrus' for SL!

[Derwent]

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/town/wo...ferrerPath=home

[Tommy The C5t]

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/town/wo...ferrerPath=home

I can't see that happening anytime soon.

[Derwent]

I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Nope.

Haven will either go bust, be relegated or both. Their better players will gravitate to Town who are solvent.

Town will then be top dogs in the area for a few years before they have financial troubles and we'll start the whole process in reverse all over again.

That's how it works up here.

[bowes]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8797367.stm

When I saw Whitehaven at Fev earlier this year they looked like relegation candidates. They now look even more like thy're going down. The finacial situation has been a concern for some time now, and relegation will certainly not help that.

Workington are no closer to a revival at present and the chances of a West Cumbrian SL team seem to lie only with both clubs going bust and being forced by this into a merger, as any other sort of merger seems highly unlikely.

They might need to merge to play in the Championship, never mind SL

[Derwent]

They might need to merge to play in the Championship, never mind SL

Why ?

[bowes]

Why ?

Well neither of them will be in the Championship next year and the Championship will have to go to franchise at some point.

[Old Frightful]

It's a great shame we don't have a Cumbrian representative in Super League.

One of our great traditional areas that should be encouraged as there's a wealth of talent up there.

[Derwent]

It's a great shame we don't have a Cumbrian representative in Super League.

One of our great traditional areas that should be encouraged as there's a wealth of talent up there.

But not a wealth of money unfortunately, so it's unlikely to happen.

[Keith T]

But not a wealth of money unfortunately, so it's unlikely to happen.

It might attract some sort of financial support IF the RFL and SL made the area a development area same as other expansion clubs with similar "favours" regarding quota players, travelling subsistence, etc, etc. With only aroiund 160,000 population in the whole of the Allerdale and Copeland areas of the county this would be necessary to get it up and running but a team holding its own or even winning most matches would certainly get the support.

[shrek]

Well neither of them will be in the Championship next year and the Championship will have to go to franchise at some point.

I thought everyone in the championship sore franchises/licences as the root of all evil?

[shaun mc]

The American chairman was on the radio tonight - Haven will not be going into admin.

They are just balancing their income and expenditure. Crowds have plummeted this season in response to poor results.

West Cumbria is now just a talent pool for the SL clubs, ther's no interest in playing for Town or Haven. Loads of young players regularly go for trials at various clubs as well as others being part of academies.

However, in time that talent pool will decrease and then that talent pool will be lost.

The proposed Cumbria v England game for Garry Purdham will be the last rep game for a long time in W Cumbria if things continue.

[mick wilson]

Not wanting to dine out on others misfortune but ((if)) Barrow keep up the forwards momentum, maybes we can be the major club in the county and the very best of the West Cumbrian talent could end up in the South of the country ? as its tends to happen that way historically doesn't it.

[yanto]

Not wanting to dine out on others misfortune but ((if)) Barrow keep up the forwards momentum, maybes we can be the major club in the county and the very best of the West Cumbrian talent could end up in the South of the country ? as its tends to happen that way historically doesn't it.

Played for all three clubs Oh and Carlisle...all this talk of mergers and a Cumbrian SL team will only happen if

1.Town and Haven come to some realistic agreement.

2.Money is pumped into the area to stop all the top youth talent signing for out of county clubs.

3.Small minded fans (200 from each club) realise until they get their heads out of the sand the game at pro level is dead.

4.A neutral ground is developed

5.The RFL give West Cumbria the same development as Wales,France and London

6.Barrow realise they are still part fo Lancashire :D :D

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

Played for all three clubs Oh and Carlisle...all this talk of mergers and a Cumbrian SL team will only happen if

1.Town and Haven come to some realistic agreement.

2.Money is pumped into the area to stop all the top youth talent signing for out of county clubs.

3.Small minded fans (200 from each club) realise until they get their heads out of the sand the game at pro level is dead.

4.A neutral ground is developed

5.The RFL give West Cumbria the same development as Wales,France and London

6.Barrow realise they are still part fo Lancashire :D :D

Couldn't agree more

[shaun mc]

Couldn't agree more

Agree as well with Yanto.

It seems to me that West Cumbria has been identified by the RFL as a prime area where future SL players are going to come from, but to do absolutely nothing to develop the area, or to look at it in depth at the area as an expansion of SL.

After all, when Gateshead were in SL, their development area (or however it was called) was West Cumbria.

Many Cumbrian kids compete with any region in the country - West Cumbria were the U-18 champs this season. However, the kids only gravitate to SL clubs not Championship as they can't see any future.

I went to a Wigan game last season (see the pattern) and bumped into an ex work colleague with 30-odd under 11's or 12's in tow. I bet a lot of those kids have never been any where near Derwent park or The Rec.

[nadera78]

Agree as well with Yanto.

It seems to me that West Cumbria has been identified by the RFL as a prime area where future SL players are going to come from, but to do absolutely nothing to develop the area, or to look at it in depth at the area as an expansion of SL.

After all, when Gateshead were in SL, their development area (or however it was called) was West Cumbria.

Many Cumbrian kids compete with any region in the country - West Cumbria were the U-18 champs this season. However, the kids only gravitate to SL clubs not Championship as they can't see any future.

I went to a Wigan game last season (see the pattern) and bumped into an ex work colleague with 30-odd under 11's or 12's in tow. I bet a lot of those kids have never been any where near Derwent park or The Rec.

It's no good blaming the RFL on this one. If they went in and laid out a plan for the development of the game in West Cumbria, culminating with a club playing in SL, there would be uproar amongst the diehards (from Town, Haven and across the M62). They'd be complaining about forced mergers and whatever else, and instead of asking the opinions of 160,000 people living in the area everyone would be paying attention to a couple of hundred refuseniks with loud voices.

If anything is going to change then it has to come from the locals, it really does. Only then could the RFL even consider getting involved.

[Derwent]

It seems to me that West Cumbria has been identified by the RFL as a prime area where future SL players are going to come from, but to do absolutely nothing to develop the area, or to look at it in depth at the area as an expansion of SL.

Do you know that there are 5 RFL funded development officers in the area ? However, there isn't one of them that's employed to do schools/junior development !

There's one each for coaching development, refereees, Over 35's and Tag RL and a general one who does a bit of everything.

But not one specific junior development officer.

With the resources being put into Over 35's and Tag it seems to me that the name of the game these days is simply to record increased participation in "RL" at whatever level in order to justify the Sport England funding. It does nothing for the future development of the game though.

[The Parksider]

They'd be complaining about forced mergers and whatever else, and instead of asking the opinions of 160,000 people living in the area everyone would be paying attention to a couple of hundred refuseniks with loud voices.

That is so so true.

When clubs get down to the last 6 fans will they still reject radical changes in case they upset the six??

What sane business would pay any heed to a dwindlling customer base? They would seek to remodel and attract a new bigger one wether the old customers liked it or not.

I suppose the answer to that may be the usual "it's not a business it's a sport".

Well if fans want their clubs to run as a "sport" then join the amateurs and sport away.....

I have always noted how county games in Cumbria over the years seem to have attracted really good crowds and I think the thousands beyond the "refuseniks" would create a potential, but it will all come back to the money to provide the stadium at least - and even then more will be needed.

HKR's break even crowd is 10,000. Now I'm not sure that's achievable by Cumbria especially if they languish in an SL bottom four.

I like the idea of a merged club in NL1 - they'd probably win that annually by a mile. (Hides from Derwent - just a bit of fantasy mate, your clubs are nowt to do with me)

[Derwent]

Parky, no need to hide from me mate !

I've always said that anyone who wanted to put a SL club together needs to canvass opinion from the thousands who like RL but who don't watch either Town or Haven. Their opinion is much more important IMO as they'd form the bulk of your target audience.

The problem up here really is the start up costs. You'd need a new stadium, new squad, new infrastructure. Nobody would get a return on such an investment for quite some time, if ever. The money just isn't there to for someone to take the risk.

However, I reckon a SL club here could attract maybe 7k to games, more for big games (Workington got nearly 6k for a cup game against Leeds a few years back). Plus there would be other advantages for a team representing a region in that you'd potentially have not 1 but 3 councils to tap into funding from (Allerdale, Copeland & Eden), plus other county wide organisations like the new University of Cumbria.

As for the merged team at a lower level - what would actually be the point in that ?

[Keith T]

Having followed Town for 63 years I would take a new club tomorrow if it meant that we had a presence in the top layer of British RL. Sadly, the currenmt boards of each club will only listen to the perrenial losing diehards who still see their clubs as "big fish". Sleeping giants waiting to be awakened seems to be the dream of many but in reality they are small town clubs that the rugby league world is passing by and leaving behind.

As Derwent says it will only work with a large influx of finance and a ground midway between the two towns. If that could be achieved then all well and good and we could leave the 300 or so "over my dead body"s behind. The sad truth at present is that with nothing else to watch RL wise, other than good amateur games, many RL fans are walking away from the game altogether. Neither club can go on indefinitely, the way things are, and one or both will eventually fold and the hardnosed diehards will look on that as some sort of victory because they managed to stave off a new club in west Cumbria.

[dkw]

I think most RL fans in Cumbria would accept any changes if it meant Town and Whitehaven surviving but with a SL club also in the region as most are now realistic in their views and know neither team will ever get much further than the position they are currently in. My guess is there are a hell of a lot more people in the area who dont go to see either team but watch SL on sky than the combined attendances they are getting. They are the ones that would hopefully follow a SL team, and its a fairly big catchment area.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

It's no good blaming the RFL on this one. If they went in and laid out a plan for the development of the game in West Cumbria, culminating with a club playing in SL, there would be uproar amongst the diehards (from Town, Haven and across the M62). They'd be complaining about forced mergers and whatever else, and instead of asking the opinions of 160,000 people living in the area everyone would be paying attention to a couple of hundred refuseniks with loud voices.

If anything is going to change then it has to come from the locals, it really does. Only then could the RFL even consider getting involved.

In fairness to Yanto he wasn't blaming the RFL, he acknowledged the head in the sand attitude of some but suggested the RFL could help the situation. Of course the refuseniks need to waNT THAT HELP