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#21 bowes

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 06:36 PM

QUOTE (Spicer @ Jul 11 2010, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Its a thread about the make up of the Quins team not where they play.

Luton or Oxford its the way forward you know .........................YAWN

I was responding to ParisSutroll bringing it up.

But even if their entire squad were from London it would be for nothing if they folded due to crowds of 3000

#22 MrPosh

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 06:42 PM

Does anybody know how many of those London originated players have come from West London - i.e. Quins current environs.

I seem to remember that LMS and Clubb and a few others were from South East London and joined the club when it was based out of Charlton (although I happily stand corrected on the facts). I still feel, from a development point of view, that East/South East/South London would be more fertile breeding grounds - RU is not as ingrained in these areas and we would have a better shout of getting the best youngsters.

None-the-less - great work from all at Quins.
People called Romans they go the house

#23 Essex Man

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE (ShotgunGold @ Jul 10 2010, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lol

Anyway... are those stats correct or not?

London should mean played RL at an amateur club in the South or Quins Academy.



Tony Clubb - Greenwich Admirals RLFC
Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook - Greenwich Admirals RLFC
Ben Bolger - St Albans Centurions RLFC
Lamont Bryan - South London Storm RLFC
Olsi Krasniqi - West London Sharks RLFC

Martin Smith -Crotdon Hurricaines RLFC
Rob Thomas - West London Sharks RLFC

Edited by Essex Man, 11 July 2010 - 08:10 PM.


#24 Essex Man

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 07:47 PM

QUOTE (MrPosh @ Jul 11 2010, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anybody know how many of those London originated players have come from West London - i.e. Quins current environs.

I seem to remember that LMS and Clubb and a few others were from South East London and joined the club when it was based out of Charlton (although I happily stand corrected on the facts). I still feel, from a development point of view, that East/South East/South London would be more fertile breeding grounds - RU is not as ingrained in these areas and we would have a better shout of getting the best youngsters.

None-the-less - great work from all at Quins.


Indded I agree with you it would be better for development to dedicate more time/resources/man-power to Sth East, East, North East and South London, currently there isn't any copmmunity coaching going on in Essex or Kent or East/Sth East London but as I've pointed out on differen tthread, over half the teams playing in London Junior League finals are from Essex , Kent and Sth East London, Brentwood Elvers, Hainault Bulldogs, Medway Dragons and Greenwich Admirals, none of whom get coached by Quins or RFL community satff, entirely by volunteers, great job done by all concerend.

#25 MrPosh

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 07:51 PM

QUOTE (Essex Man @ Jul 11 2010, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tony Clubb - Greenwich Admirals RLFC
Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook - Greenwich Admirals RLFC
Ben Bolger - Hemel Stags RLFC (and his younger brother Sam who's in U18 Acadamy)
Lamont Bryan - South London Storm RLFC
Olsi Krasniqi - West London Sharks RLFC

Martin Smith -Crotdon Hurricaines RLFC
Rob Thomas - West London Sharks RLFC

Excellent. So it looks like they're developing wherever they're based - but possibly only where they're based.

I realise that we can't have a second London club (yet) but it would be nice for there to be development all over the capital.
People called Romans they go the house

#26 Magic XIII

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 07:56 PM

QUOTE (Essex Man @ Jul 11 2010, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tony Clubb - Greenwich Admirals RLFC
Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook - Greenwich Admirals RLFC
Ben Bolger - St Albans Centurions (and his younger brother Sam who's in U18 Acadamy)
Lamont Bryan - South London Storm RLFC
Olsi Krasniqi - West London Sharks RLFC

Martin Smith -Crotdon Hurricaines RLFC
Rob Thomas - West London Sharks RLFC



#27 Essex Man

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 08:12 PM

Thanks for the correction magic XIII, ~Ben played for St Albans, Sam for Hemel.

#28 The Parksider

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:22 PM

QUOTE (bowes @ Jul 11 2010, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But even if their entire squad were from London it would be for nothing if they folded due to crowds of 3000


With respect beacause you post some great stuff.......

Maybe the birthplace of RL is at risk of folding as well?, after all today they got only 5,000 fans through the turnstyles and godammit they ARE the birthplace of RL in 1895 but date back to1864.

Maybe the most vibrant club in RL (on the back of their great breakthrough RL cup final win) are on the verge of folding due to todays 7,000 fans? A club that's been around since the 1880's??

You tell me 3,000 fans is not break even? Well is 5,000 or 7,000??

Do all three clubs exist because Hughes, Davey and Moran bankroll them???

If the answer is yes then why are Quins always singled out as the "unviable" club when many of our SL teams are unviable without sugar daddy???

Is it because they are struggling but not struggling in the north??

The crowd stat is tedious, how about a stat based on numbers of fans attracted to a club per year in existence??

Quins would walk that but it would not suit some????


#29 MrPosh

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:25 PM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Jul 11 2010, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The crowd stat is tedious, how about a stat based on numbers of fans attracted to a club per year in existence??

Quins would walk that but it would not suit some????

I don't want to argue, because I@m very pro expansion - including Quins, but that stat doesn't pay the bills.

I appreciate your comparisons, but I doubt the bank manager would.
People called Romans they go the house

#30 The Parksider

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:43 PM

QUOTE (MrPosh @ Jul 11 2010, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't want to argue, because I@m very pro expansion - including Quins, but that stat doesn't pay the bills.

I appreciate your comparisons, but I doubt the bank manager would.


How does 5,000 at Fartown pay the bills? Are Bradford paying their bills?? How does 7,000 at Warrington pay their bills??? Are Wakefield paying their bills are Harlequins paying their bills etc etc.

Mr. Hughes pays Harlequins bills.

Mr. Davey pays Fartown bills.

Mr. Moran pays Wire's bills.

Mr. Hudgell pays HKR's bills.

Same situation for most. I know damn well Hughes subsidises more than the rest, but his club is a fledgling club compared with the rest.

The bank manager would withdraw from any of them if their sugar daddies withdrew.

That has nothing to do with Quins wonderful achievement which is RL's wonderful achievement.

If it has please explain???





#31 Dave T

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Jul 11 2010, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How does 5,000 at Fartown pay the bills? Are Bradford paying their bills?? How does 7,000 at Warrington pay their bills??? Are Wakefield paying their bills are Harlequins paying their bills etc etc.

Mr. Hughes pays Harlequins bills.

Mr. Davey pays Fartown bills.

Mr. Moran pays Wire's bills.

Mr. Hudgell pays HKR's bills.

Same situation for most. I know damn well Hughes subsidises more than the rest, but his club is a fledgling club compared with the rest.

The bank manager would withdraw from any of them if their sugar daddies withdrew.

That has nothing to do with Quins wonderful achievement which is RL's wonderful achievement.

If it has please explain???
Apparently there were 10,500 at Wire, and the 7,500 was a journalists error. SportingLife even quotes the 10,500 in it's report.

BTW, does Moran pay Wire's bills, or are they pretty much self-sufficient and he puts the icing on the cake with 'extras'?


#32 The Parksider

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 11:05 PM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 11 2010, 11:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Apparently there were 10,500 at Wire, and the 7,500 was a journalists error. SportingLife even quotes the 10,500 in it's report.

BTW, does Moran pay Wire's bills, or are they pretty much self-sufficient and he puts the icing on the cake with 'extras'?


If the reported crowd is an error, it doesn't detract from the point, that there are several clubs who do not draw crowds big enough for them to survive let alone compete in SL, but do so because they have a sugar daddy.

The idea that Quins crowds are "not enough" therefore their achievement in putting out a decent part London/part English side is not really worth much would be OK if it were not for the fact that Quins have low crowds yet so do many others - what are their excuses?? Quins are covered by a sugar daddy, so are many others.

The point being that if you don't like Quins just slag their crowds off?? That's not right.

If there's an error in Wire's crowd I accept that and thank you for correcting it, but please answer the point rather than go on some unneccessary defence of the wonderful Wire....




#33 Dave T

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Jul 12 2010, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the reported crowd is an error, it doesn't detract from the point, that there are several clubs who do not draw crowds big enough for them to survive let alone compete in SL, but do so because they have a sugar daddy.

The idea that Quins crowds are "not enough" therefore their achievement in putting out a decent part London/part English side is not really worth much would be OK if it were not for the fact that Quins have low crowds yet so do many others - what are their excuses?? Quins are covered by a sugar daddy, so are many others.

The point being that if you don't like Quins just slag their crowds off?? That's not right.

If there's an error in Wire's crowd I accept that and thank you for correcting it, but please answer the point rather than go on some unneccessary defence of the wonderful Wire....

There was me asking a civil question, sorry for questioning your comments. Don't bother responding.

#34 The Parksider

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 12:09 AM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 12 2010, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There was me asking a civil question, sorry for questioning your comments. Don't bother responding.


I will respond Dave. I apologise if I have annoyed you.

I was civil in thanking you for your correction, as for the question you posed it did detract from my point and that was all what I was saying to you, but again if that offended I apologise.

Maybe it's the year after year pounding Quins crowds get regardless of the positives the club brings to the game. Sure the club can't balance the books on the underlying strength of the club, but at least they have an excuse whilst a whole list of established northern clubs have none.

As for Wire I do think Mr. Moran merely adds the cream to a very full pint indeed. Agreed.

It will take your club some years to establish as a truly top club. I hope your boys are allowed that. Quins aren't allowed 5 minutes.......

#35 Dave T

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Jul 12 2010, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I will respond Dave. I apologise if I have annoyed you.

I was civil in thanking you for your correction, as for the question you posed it did detract from my point and that was all what I was saying to you, but again if that offended I apologise.

Maybe it's the year after year pounding Quins crowds get regardless of the positives the club brings to the game. Sure the club can't balance the books on the underlying strength of the club, but at least they have an excuse whilst a whole list of established northern clubs have none.

As for Wire I do think Mr. Moran merely adds the cream to a very full pint indeed. Agreed.

It will take your club some years to establish as a truly top club. I hope your boys are allowed that. Quins aren't allowed 5 minutes.......

The reason I didn't pick you up on any of the other examples you gave was due to the fact that I agree with your post, I just didn't class Warrington in with the other examples that you used.

You will never find any examples of me criticising Quins, which is why I was annoyed as though I was simply defending Warrington and therefore criticising the others which I have not and probably never will.

#36 ParisSurtout

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 05:10 AM

Quins are a wonderful junior recruiting success. Now one of their junior products, Louis McCarthy-Scarsbrook of Greenwich Admirals, is to leave the Quins for St Helens. What better testimony to why we need to keep expanding in London.

A second SL team in the east of the city would be a good rival for the Quins, and may even get new spectators in addition to the die hard London RL fans who will probably attend both London SL clubs' home games. The local derby may well be the spark that ignites new grass roots interest in Super League throughout London.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 12 July 2010 - 05:11 AM.

Le rugby a treize, c'est moi!

_____



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#37 Spicer

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:44 AM

QUOTE (Essex Man @ Jul 11 2010, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tony Clubb - Greenwich Admirals RLFC
Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook - Greenwich Admirals RLFC
Ben Bolger - St Albans Centurions RLFC
Lamont Bryan - South London Storm RLFC
Olsi Krasniqi - West London Sharks RLFC

Martin Smith -Crotdon Hurricaines RLFC
Rob Thomas - West London Sharks RLFC


Think you will find Jamie O`Callaghan is a product of West London.
Always pleased to talk up Quins satellite clubs tongue.gif biggrin.gif

#38 Spicer

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:19 AM

QUOTE (bowes @ Jul 11 2010, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was responding to ParisSutroll bringing it up.

But even if their entire squad were from London it would be for nothing if they folded due to crowds of 3000


As it stands David Hughes is happy to finance things and they will not fold. That may change who knows.
Sky will not want London out of the equation come the next round of franchises and if they are that will be
the end of super league in the South East.

But returning to the thread it seems as if Quins are setting a fine example currently playing all these local
and English players. Yes some were only in due to injuries sustained to quota players but its good to see
anyway. You will have to forgive me for concentrating on a positive here but never mind I no doubt a
negative is just around the corner.


#39 RP London

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:36 AM

QUOTE (MrPosh @ Jul 11 2010, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anybody know how many of those London originated players have come from West London - i.e. Quins current environs.

I seem to remember that LMS and Clubb and a few others were from South East London and joined the club when it was based out of Charlton (although I happily stand corrected on the facts). I still feel, from a development point of view, that East/South East/South London would be more fertile breeding grounds - RU is not as ingrained in these areas and we would have a better shout of getting the best youngsters.

None-the-less - great work from all at Quins.


The thing with london is that the whole of london is quins' catchement area which means their junior coaches and their development work is horrifically stretched.. its also the issue with where they play and is always an argument.. do they play where the game junior level is strong? they may not get a ground there etc..

the junior/conference clubs are the feeders into Quins.. its almost quite australian in London in the way that the clubs below quins will strive to be better but they are really feeding into quins and to an extent skolars.. and they accept it with grace too and are rightly proud when juniors go to the quins academy.

West london is their base but is not really the environ. thats the whole of london. But as has been pointed out more community coaches around london would be fantastic no matter where they are based.. if they were based in Oxford you would techincally lose all the kids from their "environ", if they were based in the east of london you would lose west and south etc etc so its a case no matter where they go of keeping the links with the amateur clubs that are around that are finding and producing the talent to pass on to the quins academy.

They are vital for knowledge and support to the clubs around there but the debate will always rage about where they are based.. (mainly becuase no matter where they go unless they have an imediate impact of getting 11k through the door first 5 matches people will come on here and say it has failed!)

they are going great guns with the right attitude.. its about London kids.. and try ot get the results along the way.. and mcdermott is doing agood job with rediculous pressure from ourside of london expecting him to do better than he is etc without the depth of squad and whilst trying to bring through london kids.. this result will do wonders for the spirit of hte players and the squad and will hopefully get some credit for what is going on down here.. (there is often great credit given and then forgotten when the tide turns..)

#40 dallymessenger

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:58 AM

i wonder what jbd thinks of this situation.




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