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Championship licensing


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#1 bowes

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:49 PM

This is rumoured to be coming in, anyone know any details?

Apparently it won't be full on franchising maybe it will be like soccer in NI which basically works as follows:

Top 12 applicants when it started get in to the top flight. After that all interested teams have to apply for a license annually. Any top flight team failing (guess this would be teams going into admin in RL) automatically relegated, any team wanting to go up has to receive one. If top 2 of the 2nd tier meet criteria then the top 1 goes up to replace bottom team in division above and the 2nd place plays off against 2nd bottom of the division above. Otherwise just 1 team promoted (if someone meets criteria) unless more than one top flight team fails.

This would be a fair compromise and would have to be better than the current system of promoting and relegating 2 teams automatically even if they're promoting a team in administration or with a ground unsuitable for 2nd tier (also really don't see the point of letting a poorly supported side get promoted). The thorny issue is French sides of course.

The alternatives would be go for the top 12-14 sides 3 year license but to me this would be too harsh on the sides that just miss out or merge the divisions and drop the unsuitable teams (could work though would have on field standards gaps).

#2 Blind side johnny

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 06:53 PM



Rumoured by whom? Someone who knows or a bloke in the pub?

A de facto form of licensing is due to be adopted before long, called solvency.


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#3 bowes

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:25 PM

QUOTE (Blind side johnny @ Jul 13 2010, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rumoured by whom? Someone who knows or a bloke in the pub?

A de facto form of licensing is due to be adopted before long, called solvency.

Rumoured by the Bramley chairman in a debate on the future of the game in the community thread. I also heard it mentioned as a future aim in an RFL document (think about the time of the franchise applications) so it appears credible. Don't know the full details though apart from it stops short of full franchising

#4 Viking Warrior

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:05 PM

that's it then widnes are out..........................lewis will find a way.
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#5 Bomb Jack

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:23 PM

QUOTE (Viking Warrior @ Jul 14 2010, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that's it then widnes are out..........................lewis will find a way.


I'm 99.9% sure we'll get a SL Licence this time, but we all know the RFL........... rolleyes.gif

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#6 mick wilson

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:19 PM

Oldham will get it on the number of trophies won in times of yore cool.gif

#7 Blind side johnny

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE (mick wilson @ Jul 14 2010, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oldham will get it on the number of trophies won in times of yore cool.gif



Then it must be Swinton, surely?


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#8 West Country Eagle

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE (Bomb Jack @ Jul 14 2010, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm 99.9% sure we'll get a SL Licence this time, but we all know the RFL........... rolleyes.gif


In the words of many Championship club directors I have spoken to, Widnes are "nailed on" for a franchise. Widnesians need to stop fretting.
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#9 Bomb Jack

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE (West Country Eagle @ Jul 15 2010, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In the words of many Championship club directors I have spoken to, Widnes are "nailed on" for a franchise. Widnesians need to stop fretting.


Can you blame Widnes fans for being sceptical ? dry.gif

Anyway, it's Richard Lewis & Nigel Wood i want to hear those words quoted from, no one else........ unsure.gif
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#10 Matt J

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 11:08 AM

I hope it doesn't come in, it'd kill Championship One right off.

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#11 bowes

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE (Matt J @ Jul 16 2010, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hope it doesn't come in, it'd kill Championship One right off.

The current set up makes it impossible for clubs like York or Dewsbury to ever establish themselves in the Championship, 2-up-2-down is a killer and set back all York's hard work trying to get there a few years ago. Plus the promoted sides nearly always go back down in financial ruins so C1 is hardly working under the current system.

There has to be a path to the Championship for ambitious clubs, but only allowing 8 British clubs to remain at Championship level each year and making it impossible for promoted clubs to establish themselves in the Championship without either a rich backer like Barrow or an existing club hitting financial ruins. It's not worth holding clubs like Dewsbury or York back just for the alleged benefit of clubs with just a few hundred fans (this includes Hunslet who are top of the table with about 500 fans and will be the next promoted side to go into ruins) who would go into ruins on promotion to the Championship anyway, promotion did Gateshead and Doncaster no good

#12 tim2

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 02:14 PM

It's coming. Just a matter of when and how it ties into the SL licensing cycle. Also a common sense approach needs to be taken to the next level down. Those clubs who miss out should be able to reduce their costs and obligations as the criteria will have to be relaxed to build up a new division below the Championship. I hope that this time they can plan and execute a proper pyramid structure going from SL all the way down to Merit Leagues.

Sadly I'm not going to the Junior Forum tomorrow when I guess some of this might be revealed, if the Community Board agrees to the necessary changes lower down.
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#13 bowes

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE (tim2 @ Jul 16 2010, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's coming. Just a matter of when and how it ties into the SL licensing cycle. Also a common sense approach needs to be taken to the next level down. Those clubs who miss out should be able to reduce their costs and obligations as the criteria will have to be relaxed to build up a new division below the Championship. I hope that this time they can plan and execute a proper pyramid structure going from SL all the way down to Merit Leagues.

Sadly I'm not going to the Junior Forum tomorrow when I guess some of this might be revealed, if the Community Board agrees to the necessary changes lower down.

Guess 2012 is the logical date for this to start with the new SL franchise period starting then, the NCL maybe switching then and rules already being in place for P & R this year

#14 fredm

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 12:42 PM

QUOTE (bowes @ Jul 16 2010, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The current set up makes it impossible for clubs like York or Dewsbury to ever establish themselves in the Championship, 2-up-2-down is a killer and set back all York's hard work trying to get there a few years ago. Plus the promoted sides nearly always go back down in financial ruins so C1 is hardly working under the current system.

There has to be a path to the Championship for ambitious clubs, but only allowing 8 British clubs to remain at Championship level each year and making it impossible for promoted clubs to establish themselves in the Championship without either a rich backer like Barrow or an existing club hitting financial ruins. It's not worth holding clubs like Dewsbury or York back just for the alleged benefit of clubs with just a few hundred fans (this includes Hunslet who are top of the table with about 500 fans and will be the next promoted side to go into ruins) who would go into ruins on promotion to the Championship anyway, promotion did Gateshead and Doncaster no good


Why does the current set up make it impossible for "smaller" clubs like Dewsbury and York to establish themselves?

A club like Batley has survived all the years on pitiful gates by strict husbandry of the expenses so why can't any other club?




#15 bowes

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 01:13 PM

QUOTE (fredm @ Jul 17 2010, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why does the current set up make it impossible for "smaller" clubs like Dewsbury and York to establish themselves?

A club like Batley has survived all the years on pitiful gates by strict husbandry of the expenses so why can't any other club?

Batley were in the right place when the cut happened. The gap in salary cap between Championship and C1 and the ridiculous amount of relegation make it next to impossible to establish yourself without spending loads which unless you have a backer sends you into ruins. Most seasons Batley have stayed up by either the promoted sides or sides that are in financial ruins being behind them. York were run sensibly and got relegated because of it never to recover. Dewsbury could have managed it if it weren't for their financial problems in 2003. If Batley were in NL2 as was at the time of the cut they'd never have become an established Championship side

#16 duffymoon

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 01:14 PM

QUOTE (fredm @ Jul 17 2010, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why does the current set up make it impossible for "smaller" clubs like Dewsbury and York to establish themselves?

A club like Batley has survived all the years on pitiful gates by strict husbandry of the expenses so why can't any other club?



Sheffield won promotion to the championship via the play offs and have established themselves quite well.

#17 bowes

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 02:05 PM

QUOTE (duffymoon @ Jul 17 2010, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sheffield won promotion to the championship via the play offs and have established themselves quite well.

Yes but:

2004: Keighley straight down
2005: Barrow straight down
2006: York straight down
2009: Doncaster and Gateshead straight down
2010: at least one of Dewsbury or Keighley to go down, would be both if ti weren't for Whitehaven's meltdown

The only teams so far to stay up on promotion areL

2007: Dewsbury and Sheffield (Dewsbury went down the year after anyway, survived because of Doncaster and Rochdale's financial troubles)
2008: Celtic Crusaders and Featherstone (big backer in the former, the latter were a relegated side not long before plus there was only one relegation spot)
2009: Barrow (big backer)

Really not a good record as only Sheffield and Barrow have established themselves from the lower division ever, Crusaders were using it as a stop gap to a franchise and Featherstone were a team just regrouping for a couple of years in NL2

#18 Bulletproof

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:56 PM

I've been saying for a long time that 2 relegation slots in the second tier is a mistake - and now there is no promotion spot up for grabs it is an even bigger one. Instead of going to desperate measures they should resort to one up one down instead. Two relegated from an 11 team league and a very low salary cap is a recipe for disaster. We almost lost leigh last year, and who would replace them? Considering the salary cap level it could have been any of the bigger names in the division.

It's one extreme to the other with the RFL. Just modify what we have now instead of chucking it out completely.

#19 bowes

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:17 PM

QUOTE (Bulletproof @ Jul 17 2010, 08:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've been saying for a long time that 2 relegation slots in the second tier is a mistake - and now there is no promotion spot up for grabs it is an even bigger one. Instead of going to desperate measures they should resort to one up one down instead. Two relegated from an 11 team league and a very low salary cap is a recipe for disaster. We almost lost leigh last year, and who would replace them? Considering the salary cap level it could have been any of the bigger names in the division.

It's one extreme to the other with the RFL. Just modify what we have now instead of chucking it out completely.

1-up-1-down with strict minimum criteria to keep the likes of Hunslet and Blackpool out of the Championship might work, but I'd rather they go for 14-16 team franchised with a national league structure below

#20 james cunny

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE (bowes @ Jul 17 2010, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1-up-1-down with strict minimum criteria to keep the likes of Hunslet and Blackpool out of the Championship might work, but I'd rather they go for 14-16 team franchised with a national league structure below


Why what have Hunslet done to deserve such treatment may i ask.
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