126 replies to this topic

[Lee]

Whilst there is some truth in your post, there is a difference to being reliant on a wealthy backer and having one there to fund the niceties. We had been one of the few clubs to pay transfer fees in the last couple of years, but we could survive without them.

Give up Dave

Would you be in a position to spend the full salary cap with out Moran "topping" it up, theres no way you generate enough income to do it at present, id wager a reasonable guess that your in the same boat as us pretty much excepte your averaging around 2k higher attendance wise.

Would you still be competing at the level you are if Moran didnt dip his hand in his pocket to make any shortfall up regarding the cap? I dont it very much.

Ken Davy is on record as saying he puts in a million of his own money every year to fully cap us and make the signings we do, i bet Moran isnt to far off doing similar at the Wire

[Dave T]

That is the ultimate aim. When the corners are filled in the ground will hold that amount.

At the moment Wire are restricting big games to 13,000, look at the Saints game on Saturday.

http://www.warringto...for-saints-3579

Final Four Hundred For Saints

Saturday's clash with St Helens is heading for a sell-out with the South, North and East Stands sold out all remaining availability is in the West Stand.

The problem is (and I made this point about Saints' stadium) is that it is no good getting one or two sellouts maximum a year.

Since we have moved to the HJ Stadium, we have had 10 sellouts in SL out of around 95 matches.

1 versus Wakefield (opening game)
1 versus Leeds (Andrew Johns game)
5 versus Saints (versus 5 that didn't sell out)
3 versus Wigan (versus 4 that didn't sell out)

The bigger issue though is that most of these that do sellout have had ticket sales on the day, and have literally sold out in the build up to kick off. Demand isn't that high.
I would love to be proved wrong on this, and our crowds to grow enough to have to extend the stadium, but how can any club justify paying a few million pounds just to let a few hundred extra fans into the odd game against Saints or Wigan each year. Let's not forget, there are more Saints and Wigan games that didn't sell out than actually did.

[Dave T]

Give up Dave

Would you be in a position to spend the full salary cap with out Moran "topping" it up, theres no way you generate enough income to do it at present, id wager a reasonable guess that your in the same boat as us pretty much excepte your averaging around 2k higher attendance wise.

Would you still be competing at the level you are if Moran didnt dip his hand in his pocket to make any shortfall up regarding the cap? I dont it very much.

Ken Davy is on record as saying he puts in a million of his own money every year to fully cap us and make the signings we do, i bet Moran isnt to far off doing similar at the Wire

With a turnover of £5.7m (up from just shy of £5m) then yes, I expect we would be in a position to spend £1.6m on wages.

[RP London]

im well aware how strong soccer is

i find it ludicrous that an intelligent person would ague that having a PL soccer team in your town and having one 20 miles away is a similar thing.

the good folk of wigan have shown strong loyalty to their RL side

you are implying that warrington are struggling against soccer sides that dont even represent warrington?

draw the obvious conclusion

many many many people support football clubs that dont represent them or the town they live in hence the tongue in cheek all Man Utd fans live in Essex... its only funny because to an extent its true..

[Dave T]

Finally, to say that people should not make any critical comment about what you call good news for the sport is bizarre. If I wanted to read an uncritical piece about the club I'd look on the club website or read the Warrington Guardian, certainly not here.

I think the issue was what the criticism actually was.

My first post here (IIRC) was a criticism of Warrington as I felt they could have delivered so much more last year during that cup run, but it it when it becomes a comparison to the NRL. If Warrington are getting stick for being lazy and having poor crowds then what does it say about the rest of the game over here?

I make this point almost every time these threads become an NRL vs SL thread, English fans don't feel the need to go on French boards having digs at them becuase we are better and have bigger crowds.

[RP London]

You can't really say that Warrington can be financially successful without Simon Moran until Mr Moran actually decides to leave.

i agree which s why i didnt.. i said sustainable which is different to succesful..

The results posted this year show a big rise in profits due to the Challenge Cup success. Which would suggest that without the Cup, the results would've been dissappointing. If you consider that without the financial input of Mr Moran the club would not have been able to attract the quality of players it has. In turn they might not then have been able to attract a coach like Tony Smith. Which means that the club may never have won the Challenge Cup, meaning they may never have made a profit last year.

i agree... you have to invest early on to try and get the rewards that attract people to the club both fans and commercial that is needed to help generate the money thatat the moment moran is putting into the club..

The question is whether the club's outgoings (player payments etc.) are sustainable on the income they get without the assistance of Mr Moran.

Thats a fair question but the one i was aswering was the point that flatly "it isnt sustainable" it is while he is there building for the future.. as you said about the truth is when he leaves.. and that is the same for sustainability you can only really judge it fully when he leaves.. but he isnt at the moment so it is sustainable.. he is planning to make warrington a force in the future andpart of htat is leaving a legacy of a self funding clb if at all possible.. so while he is there it is sustainable.. IF he were to go then yes at the momeny warrington could be in trouble, but they are paying their debts down and working to the point where it wont matter.

For all the success St Helens have had, they've never been successful financially. And you only have to look at Wigan in the 90s to see the folly of relying on success on the field to be financially sound.

again i agree

To say that Mr Moran could leave the club in a position whereby another rich investor might want to invest is self defeating. The club still has to rely on a so called 'sugar daddy', who can so easily get bored and walk away.

yes but the point is that a lot of the sugar daddys if they walked away would leave aclub that no other person would want to touch, IF Moran can leave one in the state that someone else wants to step in then that is great.. every club has to have an owner.. be it a sugar daddy or not.. if moran can leave it where said sugar daddy doesnt have to be so loaded then it opens up a much larger pool ofpeople who would want to get a hold on the club.. look at quins for the dangers of this not happening.. no one seems to want to touch it with a barge poll

Finally, to say that people should not make any critical comment about what you call good news for the sport is bizarre. If I wanted to read an uncritical piece about the club I'd look on the club website or read the Warrington Guardian, certainly not here.

your perogative of course but this board is all about the negative at the moment and whenever a good news item comes out its twisted into a negatvie whenever a negative comes out it turns into a deathnell it is exceptionally depressing IMO at the mo.

[TWD]

wigan have a PL side in their town. not 20 miles down the rd

if the people of warrington are as likely to support a soccer side from 20 miles away than a RL team from their own town well that says a lot.

liverpool FC represent the city of liverpool. if people from the surrounding hinterland want to support them its a minor thing

I would say that more people in Wigan support each of Man Utd and Liverpool than they do Wigan Atheletic.

Liverpool FC represnt brand Liverpool - Everton FC are the people's club on Merseyside (or should just people from the district of Everton support them?).

Your comments could lead me to think that you have no idea about the status of the Premier League in England or living in a country where visiting your neighbouring town doesn't involvement moving your watch forward or back an hour or two however I reckon you just like winding people up.

Edited by TWD, 29 July 2010 - 03:20 PM.

[dallymessenger]

I would say that more people in Wigan support each of Man Utd and Liverpool than they do Wigan Atheletic.

Liverpool FC represnt brand Liverpool - Everton FC are the people's club on Merseyside (or should just people from the district of Everton support them?).

Your comments could lead me to think that you have no idea about the status of the Premier League in England or living in a country where visiting your neighbouring town doesn't involvement moving your watch forward or back an hour or two however I reckon you just like winding people up.

i dont know what to make of this post except express pure bewilderment.

heres a tip, if you think someone is winding people up, its best not to respond to them. its what i do and its very effective

sorry if the facts ive raised dont fit in with your rosy picture of things.

[RP London]

i dont know what to make of this post except express pure bewilderment.

heres a tip, if you think someone is winding people up, its best not to respond to them. its what i do and its very effective

sorry if the facts ive raised dont fit in with your rosy picture of things.

thing is walt he/she is right about footbal in this country and how it attracts its fans etc.. you may not understand it but it doesnt make it wrong

[giwildgo]

We cant pinch fans from rival towns like Wigan and Saints and also Widnes. The rivalry is too great and so to get even more fans we need to expand into no traditional RL areas within the town and surrounding area.

I dont necessarily agree with that - there are plenty fringe places in both Wigan (Lowton, Golborne and Ashton) and St. Helens (Earlestown, Newton and Haydock) where there is a mixed support for Wigan, Saints, Warrington and to a lesser extent in the Wigan area - Leigh. Warrington have the potential to attract more fans in these areas that arent part of the core of the towns.

[1976PMJwires]

Squirrel?
Beaver?
Goose?
I don't know what you've been taking, but I'd lay off it for a while if I were you.

Read the book..

Squirrel? Motivation
Beaver? Setting goals to match your values
Goose? All about celebrating.

[1976PMJwires]

rather than being emotional take a step back and look at the points ive raised

im spot on.............In your opinion

the club are hardly anything to brag about. a solid club no doubt but the HJ was built too small.

as a neutral the SL clubs i think are worth bragging about are wigan and hull fc

HJ is the right size at present, WHY have a ground half empty??????

Wigan and Hull Fc, they rent the grounds

But as Clubs they are spot on, great crowds and fantastic History and thats great to brag about.

get off our backs, What would you like from us?????

20k seater, massive profits and winning everything in sight.......

[giwildgo]

i dont know what to make of this post except express pure bewilderment.

heres a tip, if you think someone is winding people up, its best not to respond to them. its what i do and its very effective

sorry if the facts ive raised dont fit in with your rosy picture of things.

TWD made a fair point - top level football in Wigan is a new phenomena, little more than a decade ago they were in the bottom league and drawing only a few thousand core fans. Therefore a lot of the Wigan football supporting public already have alliegances to big NW clubs such as Liverpool and Man Utd - given these sides are more succesful, Latics will always fail to dominate and have a very localised catchment.

[thirteenthman]

Read the book..

Squirrel? Motivation
Beaver? Setting goals to match your values
Goose? All about celebrating.

What book are you referring to?

[1976PMJwires]

What book are you referring to?

Gung Ho! Spot on book....

Link :- http://positiveshari...review-gung-ho/

quick review.

[thirteenthman]

your perogative of course but this board is all about the negative at the moment and whenever a good news item comes out its twisted into a negatvie whenever a negative comes out it turns into a deathnell it is exceptionally depressing IMO at the mo.

The point I was trying to make is that your perception of posts which may offer a different viewpoint to yours is that they are negative, when in actual fact they may just be trying to offer an alternative point of view. Life is all about opinions. If everyone agreed with everyone else the world would be a very boring place.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I agree.

[1976PMJwires]

I agree.

well i don't

[thirteenthman]

[Wendall]

I dont necessarily agree with that - there are plenty fringe places in both Wigan (Lowton, Golborne and Ashton) and St. Helens (Earlestown, Newton and Haydock) where there is a mixed support for Wigan, Saints, Warrington and to a lesser extent in the Wigan area - Leigh. Warrington have the potential to attract more fans in these areas that arent part of the core of the towns.

hmm yeah okay but most of these people in hillbilly places like Earlestown, Golbourne and Yickerland are loyalists and have family links to a certain team/town. Your right there is mixed support but I was thinking of places where RL has not much profile, these places you mention are RL mad and no other sports are popular there.

Places like Lymm which are RU dominated are the areas that Wire should branch into.