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Time for a third Welsh Team?


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#21 WalesRLFan

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:39 PM

I think a welsh side in RLC National would be the next logical step they could then apply to C1 if/when Scorps gain promotion to Championship, success of Dragonhearts and the appearance of SW Thunder playing friendlies last winter show that there are boys who would choose RL over RU in south wales and also that there are boys of the ability to compete at that level.
The obvious choice would be Gwent due to it being an hour nearer the border than some alternatives, the support Cru got there last year and the density of conference clubs there.
Also think a CRu 20s in SL reserves and a new RLC club with 18s in NYL aswellas a Scorpion team in NYL would be brilliant and secure a production line of sustainable talent.

#22 bowes

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE (WalesRLFan @ Aug 3 2010, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think a welsh side in RLC National would be the next logical step they could then apply to C1 if/when Scorps gain promotion to Championship, success of Dragonhearts and the appearance of SW Thunder playing friendlies last winter show that there are boys who would choose RL over RU in south wales and also that there are boys of the ability to compete at that level.
The obvious choice would be Gwent due to it being an hour nearer the border than some alternatives, the support Cru got there last year and the density of conference clubs there.
Also think a CRu 20s in SL reserves and a new RLC club with 18s in NYL aswellas a Scorpion team in NYL would be brilliant and secure a production line of sustainable talent.

Perhaps when there's a RLCN South that would be a good place to start? The RLCN won't survive the NCL switch to summer under the current format IMO. Also the southern teams (Hemel aside- they could go NCL or something) can't sustain trips up north every other weekend so there needs to be something above the local leagues for these teams that's not fully national

#23 RP London

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 07:23 AM

QUOTE (WalesRLFan @ Aug 3 2010, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think a welsh side in RLC National would be the next logical step they could then apply to C1 if/when Scorps gain promotion to Championship, success of Dragonhearts and the appearance of SW Thunder playing friendlies last winter show that there are boys who would choose RL over RU in south wales and also that there are boys of the ability to compete at that level.
The obvious choice would be Gwent due to it being an hour nearer the border than some alternatives, the support Cru got there last year and the density of conference clubs there.
Also think a CRu 20s in SL reserves and a new RLC club with 18s in NYL aswellas a Scorpion team in NYL would be brilliant and secure a production line of sustainable talent.


I dont see a major problem with two welsh clubs in Ch1 infact i think it would be a great thing with the derby etc..

not sure RLCN is the next logical step or that Ch1 is the logical step to help the growth of the game with exposure and derbys etc

#24 thirteenthman

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:10 AM

The RLCN is an odd competiton dominated by a Bramley team who I'm sure could easily manage in CC1. Hemel are the only non-northern team , so I imagine the financial aspect for them must be huge. The problem for them is finding a suitable level of competition but in the south.

If any new Welsh team wanted to start as a semi-pro outfit, CC1 is the only way to go. If nothing else they'd have some local competition. But I think it would be best for the RFL to let the situation in Wales settle for a few years to try and get some stability, and then maybe look for new sides.

Also, does anyone think it would be better for the Scorpions, and Crusaders for that matter, to mention their locality in the club name - Wrexham Crusaders and Neath Scorpions - or does it not matter?



#25 sgorpioncaerdyddrob

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:23 AM

Its a nice idea and I hope it a few more years it could easily become reality, i just think we need to build the exposure of the game on a local level and keep developing the playing base particularly in the North , theres plenty of talent out west in the Llanelli area playing Union right now who might be tempted to play League given the opportunity that arises from what Ive seen as well.

I think the future at the moment is to take it slowly and give it sometime as we know what happens when you build up too quickly without establishing solid foundations. Two professional clubs is roughly where the WRL wanted to be now wasnt it Ian? With the Scorpions taking much of the promising talent from the Welsh Conference particularly Valley Cougars and Blackwood who made the 3rd round of the Challenge Cup this year shows theres talent out there, i'd be worried having another CH1 side would spread our playing and financial resources too thinly at the moment. If we can get more conference clubs , we now have two Welsh Summer Leagues and 10 clubs follwoing the creation of Dyffryn Devils a few weeks in, seems to have made a fairly conpetitive competition, we'll see what standard there is sunday before the Scorpions match. Still matches get forfeited due to lack of numbers by some of the weaker clubs , I was going to watch Cardiff v Blackwood other week but it was called off as Blackwood were short, they and the Cougars have had to totally rebuild this year.

If there was to be a new professional side then I would have thought it would have to be here in the capital where the money is. A Cardiff Conference National side would be a good start, a local consortium like the Scorps could work to support that, its only one level up from what the Demons play at now,I'd like to think it would get the necessary support, though I think the best playing base is in the Rhondda Valleys such as the Cougars at the moment so if they could get the support maybe they could step up. Im very interested in seeing how Merthyr Tydfil Wildcats go on from here

As for naming the professional clubs Wrexham Crusaders and Neath Scorpions , I know it would alienate the fans of South Wales not from the town thats part of the appeal, with Neath theres already NeathPT Steelers. Wrexham ? can't say for sure.

Edited by cardifcrusaderrob, 04 August 2010 - 10:24 AM.

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#26 Cofi

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:53 AM

QUOTE (thirteenthman @ Aug 4 2010, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, does anyone think it would be better for the Scorpions, and Crusaders for that matter, to mention their locality in the club name - Wrexham Crusaders and Neath Scorpions - or does it not matter?



QUOTE (cardifcrusaderrob @ Aug 4 2010, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for naming the professional clubs Wrexham Crusaders and Neath Scorpions , I know it would alienate the fans of South Wales not from the town thats part of the appeal, with Neath theres already NeathPT Steelers. Wrexham ? can't say for sure.



I've got mixed feelings about changing the name. I think you ask a valid question because a name can do much to create a sense of identity. Adding 'Wrexham' to the club's name would most definitely create a sense of loyalty to the club on a local level and, perhaps, may even help attract new fans. However, even if this were the right thing to do, I personally would not do it immediately. The Crusaders in SL, as I see it and I may be wrong, is a club that represents the whole of Wales in SL. I also think that cardifcrusaderrob makes an important point about alienating fans in the South - fans, like his good self, who have supported the club right from the very beginning in the South of Wales. Me and my mates are new to RL and this is our first season as fans of the Crusaders and we're acutely aware that fans in the club's original location rightly feel angry/upset with the club's relocation etc., so any further alienation would be disastrous.

A name is never just a name!



#27 bowes

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:28 AM

QUOTE (thirteenthman @ Aug 4 2010, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The RLCN is an odd competiton dominated by a Bramley team who I'm sure could easily manage in CC1. Hemel are the only non-northern team , so I imagine the financial aspect for them must be huge. The problem for them is finding a suitable level of competition but in the south.

Bramley can't get the ground for Championship 1, I'd hope that when they license (and hopefully expand) the Championship they'll relax Championship 1 standards, or ideally have a unified pyramid if the amateur game goes summer.

Hemel it's a tough one, once the NCL switches to summer I'd like to see them rejoin that as it would give them more games and they do meet the off field standards. Nottingham could go either way, north or south but I think north would be less travel. Since none of the southern sides have any intention of ever stepping up it would be better to build up a southern competition (include some or all of the midlands), whether this is something for next year or something to work towards I don't know, rather than having a RLC National with no side south of Coventry (we're about as far south as you can be and still manage it and even then only if the RFL still pay for all the travel costs). The NCL would be there for southern sides wanting to step up anyway, so no need for another northern based national competition.

Hemel don't actually pay for the bills as the RFL cover all travel costs for the RLC National, but can't see that continuing if they have another national summer comp with better on and off field standards and if Hemel (and perhaps Nottingham) joined better geographical spread

Edited by bowes, 04 August 2010 - 11:28 AM.


#28 thirteenthman

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (bowes @ Aug 4 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bramley can't get the ground for Championship 1, I'd hope that when they license (and hopefully expand) the Championship they'll relax Championship 1 standards, or ideally have a unified pyramid if the amateur game goes summer.

Hemel it's a tough one, once the NCL switches to summer I'd like to see them rejoin that as it would give them more games and they do meet the off field standards. Nottingham could go either way, north or south but I think north would be less travel. Since none of the southern sides have any intention of ever stepping up it would be better to build up a southern competition (include some or all of the midlands), whether this is something for next year or something to work towards I don't know, rather than having a RLC National with no side south of Coventry (we're about as far south as you can be and still manage it and even then only if the RFL still pay for all the travel costs). The NCL would be there for southern sides wanting to step up anyway, so no need for another northern based national competition.

Hemel don't actually pay for the bills as the RFL cover all travel costs for the RLC National, but can't see that continuing if they have another national summer comp with better on and off field standards and if Hemel (and perhaps Nottingham) joined better geographical spread

Forgot about the ground situation with Bramley. Shame as they seem to dominate the RLCN.

Didn't know the RFL paid all travel costs for the RLCN. That must cost a fair bit, with doubtful reward (Hemel's inclusion excepted) in terms of expansion. Regional leagues are surely the way to go. Although as you mention, the whole thing could change if and when the NCL goes to a summer season. Personally, I don't think that's as cut and dried as the RFL would like to think.

Just back on the topic of Crusaders including Wrexham in the name. This move, along with no more matches in the South, would surely show the people of Wrexham that the club was serious about putting down roots in the community and building a long term future in the town. That's presuming that they are of course.



#29 bowes

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 06:20 PM

QUOTE (thirteenthman @ Aug 4 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Forgot about the ground situation with Bramley. Shame as they seem to dominate the RLCN.

Didn't know the RFL paid all travel costs for the RLCN. That must cost a fair bit, with doubtful reward (Hemel's inclusion excepted) in terms of expansion. Regional leagues are surely the way to go. Although as you mention, the whole thing could change if and when the NCL goes to a summer season. Personally, I don't think that's as cut and dried as the RFL would like to think.

Yeah while I still think the NCL will probably switch at some point but only on its own terms not as part of a pyramid (unfortunately IMO) and juniors likely will, I can't see the BARLA leagues agreeing to it.

The RFL have a centralised coach company which pushes down the travel prices but it's still a huge cost I can't see them keeping it long term (perhaps better just to pay travel by and to Hemel in the NCL?). Last year there seemed to be efforts to drum up interest in going back towards the old format (play your region twice and the other region once) or something along those lines, maybe north and south with cross division fixtures, but the travelling was still too much for southern clubs so seems to be either a north/south split or not at all.

QUOTE (thirteenthman @ Aug 4 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just back on the topic of Crusaders including Wrexham in the name. This move, along with no more matches in the South, would surely show the people of Wrexham that the club was serious about putting down roots in the community and building a long term future in the town. That's presuming that they are of course.

Yeah either that or something like North Wales Crusaders depending on how wide you want to appeal

#30 Mumby Magic

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE (bowes @ Aug 4 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bramley can't get the ground for Championship 1, I'd hope that when they license (and hopefully expand) the Championship they'll relax Championship 1 standards, or ideally have a unified pyramid if the amateur game goes summer.


Are there plans to license CH1?

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#31 thirteenthman

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 07:45 PM

QUOTE (Mumby Magic @ Aug 4 2010, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are there plans to license CH1?

I'd like to know if there are definate plans to licence the Championship. I know it's been floated on here, but other than that I've not heard anything.


#32 bowes

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:15 PM

QUOTE (Mumby Magic @ Aug 4 2010, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are there plans to license CH1?

There are plans and it needs to happen but there's no definite form to it, it may merely end up promotion and relegation with minimum standards.

A lot depends on what happens with the amateur game switching from winter (if it happens), the RFL wanted something like:

Super League
Championship
National 1
National 2
West/East/South
etc.

But the NCL want to stay as they are (perhaps in summer) and the other leagues aren't keen to switch.

2-up-2-down is destroying clubs but a licensed Championship would need to be bigger and you need something better than the RLC to put excluded C1 clubs in (or else attract clubs to step up to C1 from the NCL plus Bramley with lower entry criteria)




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