63 replies to this topic

[ParisSurtout]

I look forward to the day when a French Prime Minister (or President, I'm not fussy) agrees to speak to a rugby league interviewer on a prime time French rugby league TV show. The day when that happens, we will know that rugby league has finally made it in France.

Brilliant observation. I agree.

[bendyas]

No chance. Thaiday is nowhere near the class of those two.

This is a foolish reply. Very foolish.

I disagree. Ellis was a good player at Leeds before he went to Australia. But he was not a great player. He has become a great player at West Tigers. Whether it was Tim Sheens' coaching or the need to prove himself, or both, I don't know. But no one would have rated him so highly before he went to Australia.

Burgess is a slightly different case. He had been outstanding on occasion when playing in Britain. His Four Nations final performance was superb. But he was inconsistent in the level of his performances. Now he is at South Sydney there is greater consistency in his outstanding performances. Now he plays a great role at Souths that has made him a key figure in the squad. He ranks with Isaac Luke, Dave Taylor and Nathan Merritt as one of the team's stars. (go here: http://www.rabbitohs.com.au/ Sam is the first cab off the rank in the list of club stars.) Also Sam Burgess is now a media celebrity in Australia. This is a sign of how much he has developed in less than one year in the NRL.

Pish.

I have wtched each and every game that has come from the NRL on MSK and enjoyed them so much that I am paying the extra premium to continue doing so.

I agree that both Burgess and Ellis have looked well within their depth in the OZ game and both have easily risen to the fitness levels required, especially Ellis. Sam is trying too hard and is requiring a subs spell in each game, when he paces himself better he will become better still.

However although both of them look good neither of them are the stand out forwards of the NRL!

I watched the game Wests V Panthers and whilst not wanting to pour cold water on the fact that Gareth got the MOM award, I thought that was a bit wrong.

Robbie Farah was the best man for Wests, by a mile and the best forward on view was Luke Lewis, but as far as I was concerned the MOM was the Penrith F/B Michael Gordon who played fantastic, even in a beaten side.

Hannibal: there are no Aussie Supermen.
Grow up and simply accept the fact that compared with the NRL the S/L is a poorer standard competition, like it or lump it that is undeniable.

The thread should have ended here as this is 100% correct.

[MrPosh]

This is a foolish reply. Very foolish.

No it wasn't.

[bendyas]

No it wasn't.

Read what players say about Thaiday and use your eyes to watch him.

Top 5 backrowers in the game easily.

[MrPosh]

Read what players say about Thaiday and use your eyes to watch him.

Top 5 backrowers in the game easily.

I don't need to be patronised because I don't share your opinion.

[bendyas]

I don't need to be patronised because I don't share your opinion.

Bless. Do you want a hug?

What about the opinion of the coaches and players?

Tell me 5 better backrowers, and why?

[MrPosh]

Bless. Do you want a hug?

What about the opinion of the coaches and players?

Tell me 5 better backrowers, and why?

Burgess
Ellis
Watmough
Gallen
Blair

[bendyas]

Burgess
Ellis
Watmough
Gallen
Blair

And why?

[Futtocks]

While I can sympathise somewhat with those who (rightly) defend SL's excitement and skill, doing so by rubbishing the NRL is wrongheaded. Whether it is intensity, depth of player pool, coaching or whatever, nobody can deny which hemisphere's main RL competition has produced the vast majority of players in every team to win the Ashes series, the Tri-and-Four Nations and the Rugby World Cup for the last few decades.

They must be doing something right or SL must be doing something wrong. Otherwise, the results would read differently. Fobbing any complimentary comment about the NRL with a counterproductive and irrelevant quip about Kleenex is just ignoring reality.

Having said that, I don't think this year's NRL season has been a vintage one. I've seen many more poor games this year than I'd expect. Ellis and Burgess are playing well, but in teams that must be very frustrating to support, due to their inconsistency.

[HappyDave]

So SL is a poor level of competition?... That's not even worth an answer. Are benyas & petero new trolls?

[amh]

So SL is a poor level of competition?... That's not even worth an answer. Are benyas & petero new trolls?

Try looking at their joined dates....they are not trolls

[HappyDave]

Ah! So not trolls, just $h1t-talkers.

[MrPosh]

And why?

Burgess - Bigger, stronger, faster, better handler, better defence
Ellis - Better defence, faster, equally strong runner
Watmough - Faster, better attacker, equal in defence
Gallen - More creative, better defender
Blair - See Burgess, but not quite so much.

Thaiday is far from a bad player - he is a good runner with a good offload, but I find him one-dimensional and rather static in defence.

If he is in Australia's starting XIII for the four nations, then I like the chances of England and NZ.

[m brooksy]

Gallen
Watmough
Lewis
Creagh
Ellis

That's my top five back rowers. Thaiday is excellent in attack but as MrPosh said a bit static in defence. Burgess is going to become a top player but isn't there yet, just makes too many errors(both in attack and defence) that cost his team. Gallen is simply superb, in my opinion the best forward in the world by quite a way at the minute. I've always rated Watmough and although he hasn't had the best of seasons he is still a cracking player. Creagh and Ellis are very similar players, they turn up every week putting in consistent performances all year round. Luke Lewis at Penrith is very skillful and plays almost likea traditional loose forward linking the forwards and backs

[HappyDave]

How far off are Westwood & J Tomkins to the best Second Rows in the NRL?

[MrPosh]

How far off are Westwood & J Tomkins to the best Second Rows in the NRL?

12,000 miles and a few years for one of them.

[HappyDave]

Yeah yeah. Okay, I'll re-word that; how far behind is Westwood skillwise compaired to the top 4-5 Second Rows in the NRL? He can't be that far off from Burgess & Ellis, can he? So, do you mean in a few years JTomkins will be 'World Class'?

Edited by HappyDave, 21 August 2010 - 01:10 PM.

[MrPosh]

Yeah yeah. Okay, I'll re-word that; how far behind is Westwood skillwise compaired to the top 4-5 Second Rows in the NRL? He can't be that far off from Burgess & Ellis, can he? So, do you mean in a few years JTomkins will be 'World Class'?

Westwood is a good solid player and would hold his own in any competition he plays in and I can't think of many club sides he wouldn't improve. He also didn't disgrace himself playing internationally. However, he will never be a 'world class' player.

Tomkins has all the tools and, crucially, time on his side. With the right attitude he'll be amongst the world's best.

[bendyas]

So SL is a poor level of competition?... That's not even worth an answer. Are benyas & petero new trolls?

Who said SL is a poor level of competition?

Learn to read!

Ah! So not trolls, just $h1t-talkers.

Kiss my face.

Burgess - Bigger, stronger, faster, better handler, better defence
Ellis - Better defence, faster, equally strong runner
Watmough - Faster, better attacker, equal in defence
Gallen - More creative, better defender
Blair - See Burgess, but not quite so much.

Thaiday is far from a bad player - he is a good runner with a good offload, but I find him one-dimensional and rather static in defence.

If he is in Australia's starting XIII for the four nations, then I like the chances of England and NZ.

Burgess could be a true great. He's currently not there as he doesn't play enough minutes.
Ellis is a very very good player. He runs great lines and he makes good defensive decisions. A bit limited in attack but i think that's the way Wests play as he's good footwork.
Watmough, whilst great in attack is too much of a turnstile.
Gallen is class. Love him. Does too much work for Cronulla though!
Blair.. Not a massive fan; i like Creagh though.

Thaiday is wonderful and wins every collision.

To be honest, it's all personal preference. I just wanted to stimulate a debate.

Westwood is a very very good player and Tomkins has the ability, physique and stamina to join them and maybe go beyond.

[ParisSurtout]

I think that the key to understanding the improvement of the English players in Australia is the standard of coaching and facilities.

Gareth Ellis is coached by one of the greatest rugby league coaches of the modern era, Tim Sheens. The remarkable Mr Sheens is a coach who has won three Australian premierships with the Canberra Raiders (1989, 1990, 1994) and one with the Wests Tigers (2005). His player-pupils have included Mal Meninga, Laurie Daley, Ricky Stuart, Glen Lazarus, Ruben Wiki, David Furner, Bradley Clyde, John Ferguson, Ken Nagas, Benji Marshall, Scott Prince, Brett Hodgson, Robbie Farah, and Patrick Richards. Tim Sheens is now the coach of World Champions Australia. How could Sheens' superior wisdom and experience not have had an effect on Gareth Ellis?

Sam Burgess is coached by John Lang, who coached Cronulla from 1994-2001 (taking them to the semi finals every year except two), and who later won an NRL premiership with the Penrith Panthers in 2003. His player-pupils have included Preston Campbell, David Peachey, Richie Barnett, Craig Gower, Ryan Girdler, Rhys Wesser, Luke Lewis, and Tony Puletua. How could Lang's wisdom and experience not have had an effect on Sam Burgess?

Coaching facilities in Australia of course far outstrip those available in Britain. These also influence player performance.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 22 August 2010 - 02:35 AM.