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Halifax Attract 4795


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#41 Herbert Splatt

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:14 PM

I think the RFL should look at the overall package, and not primarily OFF the field things. A club needs to be able to cope ON the pitch as well. Certainly it is ludicrous to promote a club that is 15-20 points short of the league leaders and only have a win rate of 50% compared to 89.5% as the leaders Fev are and 79% as Fax are.

This is why the P+R argument has its strength because the on the field performance is of primary concern whereas a team that are only in the middle of the table are more likely to be whipping boys upon promotion, and therefore be of little benefit to the higher division.

#42 Matt J

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE (Herbert Splatt @ Aug 16 2010, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the RFL should look at the overall package, and not primarily OFF the field things. A club needs to be able to cope ON the pitch as well. Certainly it is ludicrous to promote a club that is 15-20 points short of the league leaders and only have a win rate of 50% compared to 89.5% as the leaders Fev are and 79% as Fax are.

This is why the P+R argument has its strength because the on the field performance is of primary concern whereas a team that are only in the middle of the table are more likely to be whipping boys upon promotion, and therefore be of little benefit to the higher division.


Thats spot on, full of common sense.

Cummins Out.


#43 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE (Chris Taylor @ Aug 16 2010, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm a Featherstone Fan, so it didn't double my teams crowd.

Mentioning that you have an under 15's / 16's academy et all, well so do we!

We don't go around saying we have this, you don't, we have bigger crowds than you, we won the WCC in 90's blah blah. I personally find it funny that have to stoop to that level to make Widnes look actually good. IMO you don't deserve a license, on the field you've been poor, you had a good spell, when you had your loan players from Warrington and that has been it.

I honestly don't think any team in the Championships are ready for the top division yet, a lot of off the field work has to go in and i'd probably say all of them aren't ready yet, in 2015 i'd say 2 or 3 would be.


This shows how little you know or understand.

We actually mention that we run youth at all levels not just U15's and U16's. You're saying we have to stoop to a level to make us look good, which is nonsense. What about crowds, stadium, youth development doesn't make us look good in comparison to other clubs in this league? Winning the WCC adds nothing and people don't mention it very often despite you're mentioning that we do. When it is it's simply to say that Widnes are a famous name in RL and much more so than the other clubs we're up against it.

How many times does it need to be pointed out that on the field is not what licensing is about? We don't have P & R anymore, get over it. In the words of the RFL, there is a minimum criteria and Widnes have met it. We are dealing with a salary cap of 300k in comparison to 1.4m so how you do in this league means almost nothing to how you will do in SL.

Your final point shows exactly how little you understand. There are at least 3 clubs that are ready for Super League to the level of Wakefield, Salford, Crusaders, Quins or Castleford. Can you elaborate on the off-field work that Widnes would need to get to reach the level of Wakefield or Salford? We have a better stadium and got better crowds than they did last time in Super League, so please enlighten me.

I was going to congratulate Fax on a great effort, I suggested that they should try this a few weeks ago, but I read this in their own newspaper,

QUOTE
Aside from the fire alarm, the main talking point off the field was the crowd, officially confirmed as a whopping 4,795 and apparently the result of some liberal ticket distribution at Saturday's Halifax Show, which squeaked Fax past the 2,500 average needed to apply for a Super League licence.


Followed by discussions from Fax fans underneath,

QUOTE
No way on earth was there nearly 5000 down there yesterday.

4795 no way were there that many people at the Shay try 1795....that would be more like it....

2500 tops, no more !!

So the club dish out 3000 free tickets at the Halifax Show, count all of them in the attendance figure regardless of whether they attend and hey presto, average for the season is over 2500. Truely the actions of a club deserving Super League!





#44 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:21 PM

QUOTE (mick wilson @ Aug 16 2010, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Enlighten us all please.


Enlighten you about what? The way to conduct yourself on a forum without looking like a childish brat?

#45 Griff

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:22 PM

QUOTE (Bomb Jack @ Aug 16 2010, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What a surprise. Fax hit the magic 2,500 mark by 10 bodies, in their last Game of the Season rolleyes.gif


Gosh, how lucky is that ? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#46 Matt J

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:22 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 16 2010, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This shows how little you know or understand.


Priceless coming from a Widnes fan laugh.gif

Cummins Out.


#47 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:26 PM

QUOTE (Herbert Splatt @ Aug 16 2010, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the RFL should look at the overall package, and not primarily OFF the field things. A club needs to be able to cope ON the pitch as well. Certainly it is ludicrous to promote a club that is 15-20 points short of the league leaders and only have a win rate of 50% compared to 89.5% as the leaders Fev are and 79% as Fax are.

This is why the P+R argument has its strength because the on the field performance is of primary concern whereas a team that are only in the middle of the table are more likely to be whipping boys upon promotion, and therefore be of little benefit to the higher division.


Nonsense.

So if we did have P & R then do you think Widnes would have exactly the same squad as they do now? Do you think that the clubs would have voted to reduce the cap to 300k as well?

Final question, how many players do you think Featherstone or Fax would retain if promoted to Super League, with potentially an extra 1.1m per year to spend on the cap?

People need to stop ignoring the reality of the situation. If we had P + R then all clubs would have focussed on that rather than ticking the off field criteria. Widnes met the on field criteria and didn't have to go all out to win it so didn't.

#48 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:27 PM

QUOTE (Matt J @ Aug 16 2010, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Priceless coming from a Widnes fan laugh.gif


So what of the actual post did you disagree with?

Emoticons are not an excuse for an argument.

#49 Matt J

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 16 2010, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So what of the actual post did you disagree with?

Emoticons are not an excuse for an argument.


Oh well tongue.gif

I just find it amusing that a Widnes fan can state anyone else knows very little, when we have Widnes coaches and Widnes fans totally ignoring the junior set-ups at other clubs (IE. Cullen stating Featherstone had no future as we had no academy). You're fans are just totally ignorant, good luck in Super League, no doubt you were better candidates than Crusaders last time, but Jesus Christ you lot had no trouble in telling us that.

Cummins Out.


#50 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:36 PM

Who cares about Crowds? Surely the game is more important? Not in Rugby League! This just shows what a farce the RFL and this franchising lark is! Fax will not be in SL and are not ready for it. Fev won the League and for me hoipe they win the Grand Final-best team over the year. They deserve to have a crack at SL rather than clubs who have won nothing this year! But the way the RFL keep moving goal posts to fit their point of view it would not surprise me if clubs did exagerate things to stay/get in SL. In many cases there is little difference between Barrow, Halifax, Leigh, Fev over Salford, Bradford, Quins, Crusaders , Wakey, Cas etc. Some clubs are only in SL due to a sugar Daddy being with them at the right time.

The sooner the RFL take the expansion mindset off the better. The RFL need to realize that clubs-Heartland with decades of playing the game or clubs recently set up- need to be stable and have a structure in place. They need to be strong focal points of the local community. You need a strong fan base. You need the local population to atleast have some feelings and that the many floating supporters will turn up a few times a year. That would happen in places like Halifax, Featherstone, Barrow more so than London, Neath and Bridgend it would seem.

The game has not learned anything from the Paris and Gateshead days. Quins are basically on their last legs. They are not a focal point of the local community and they are not playing at the level that is too high for them as a club in the present situation they are in. The problem they also have is they are so far away from the Heartland teams. So they get less away fans. They do not have a massive Floating Supporter Fan base. They are like a Paris SG for me. No real culture No Stability, No positive Image and No real community focal point. They are just existing for now. But for how long?

Crusaders for me are again similar to Gateshead. They have been shoved in to SL, but have not built up Supporter base properly. They have financial question marks over them. They have probably only really got better crowds this year, due to Wrexham being not too much of a Journey, especially for the Big fan base that the west of the Pennine SL Clubs have. They do have a hardcore Welsh Fanbase. But is it enough to keep them going over the next 3 years?

I seriously hope Quins and Crusaders can somehow improve off the field and be the local focal point of the community. I also hope that they can challenge for honours. But at the moment they just seem like nothing more than clubs who are treading water or near to sinking. Is that good for the game? I would prefer Expansion teams to follow the lead of South Wales Scorpions who are mainly local players and seem to be much more of a community focus point than either Quins or Crusaders are. I hope to see South Wales in 10 or 15 years in SL and be a properly developed club like many Heartland clubs are. That takes time and effort as well as much patience. But it can happen.

#51 mick wilson

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 16 2010, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nonsense.

So if we did have P & R then do you think Widnes would have exactly the same squad as they do now? Do you think that the clubs would have voted to reduce the cap to 300k as well?

If we had P + R then all clubs would have focussed on that rather than ticking the off field criteria. Widnes met the on field criteria and didn't have to go all out to win it so didn't.


Do you mean like the previous season when you finished err 5th or was it 6th laugh.gif good job your loanee's won you the NR Cup. laugh.gif

#52 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (Matt J @ Aug 16 2010, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh well tongue.gif

I just find it amusing that a Widnes fan can state anyone else knows very little, when we have Widnes coaches and Widnes fans totally ignoring the junior set-ups at other clubs (IE. Cullen stating Featherstone had no future as we had no academy). You're fans are just totally ignorant, good luck in Super League, no doubt you were better candidates than Crusaders last time, but Jesus Christ you lot had no trouble in telling us that.


Did I say that? It's amazing how one person's opinion can stand for thousands of people.

Do Widnes not have a better junior set up than Featherstone regardless of their junior set-up? We don't ignore it but the fact is that we have a better one than it.

If you had bothered to read the post, you would see that I was addressing somebody who was suggesting that we have to refer to 1990 to try to boost our position, when we don't. He then went on about on the field nonsense again which does show how little he understands.

As for the last line, it goes both ways, Widnes have been favourites from day one and as such have been attacked from other fans, looking to trip us up wherever possible and make out like we're not good enough. It all comes from jealousy. Widnes fans of course aren't allowed to point out the obvious flaws in the argument or stick up for their own club.

We'll see how much you all love Halifax when they are the favourites for promotion.

#53 mick wilson

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:42 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 16 2010, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Enlighten you about what? The way to conduct yourself on a forum without looking like a childish brat?


Gis a hug, bigman.

#54 Matt J

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 16 2010, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nonsense.

So if we did have P & R then do you think Widnes would have exactly the same squad as they do now? Do you think that the clubs would have voted to reduce the cap to 300k as well?

Final question, how many players do you think Featherstone or Fax would retain if promoted to Super League, with potentially an extra 1.1m per year to spend on the cap?

People need to stop ignoring the reality of the situation. If we had P + R then all clubs would have focussed on that rather than ticking the off field criteria. Widnes met the on field criteria and didn't have to go all out to win it so didn't.


Excellent plod along attitude.

Cummins Out.


#55 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE (mick wilson @ Aug 16 2010, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you mean like the previous season when you finished err 5th or was it 6th laugh.gif good job your loanee's won you the NR Cup. laugh.gif


So we didn't meet the minimum criteria then?

Also Mick, please stop lying. Especially when it can be easily disproven by a simple internet search, it doesn't make your argument any better. It was 4th.

#56 Matt J

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 16 2010, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did I say that? It's amazing how one person's opinion can stand for thousands of people.

Do Widnes not have a better junior set up than Featherstone regardless of their junior set-up? We don't ignore it but the fact is that we have a better one than it.

If you had bothered to read the post, you would see that I was addressing somebody who was suggesting that we have to refer to 1990 to try to boost our position, when we don't. He then went on about on the field nonsense again which does show how little he understands.

As for the last line, it goes both ways, Widnes have been favourites from day one and as such have been attacked from other fans, looking to trip us up wherever possible and make out like we're not good enough. It all comes from jealousy. Widnes fans of course aren't allowed to point out the obvious flaws in the argument or stick up for their own club.

We'll see how much you all love Halifax when they are the favourites for promotion.


Theres the key to this whole thing, nobody's bothered anymore, every time a club does well, one of your lot is in, its beyond boring. I won't be posting anymore, I've said all I can, enjoy your plod-athon.

Cummins Out.


#57 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Matt J @ Aug 16 2010, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Excellent plod along attitude.


So we shouldn't only have to meet the set RFL criteria on and off the field, we should have to try and satisfy every Championship club's fans as well?



#58 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:48 PM

QUOTE (Matt J @ Aug 16 2010, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Theres the key to this whole thing, nobody's bothered anymore, every time a club does well, one of your lot is in, its beyond boring. I won't be posting anymore, I've said all I can, enjoy your plod-athon.


So as I suspected, you have no argument.

If you can't be bothered to read it, don't make pointless little comments like the one you made.

Once again, 'one of your lot,' so people don't have their own opinions any more? I'm sure every fan of your club speaks for you as well. Whether or not a Widnes fan comes in spouting nonsense, it doesn't excuse the lies and further nonsense that comes in reply.

#59 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:51 PM

QUOTE (Lounge Room Lizard @ Aug 16 2010, 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who cares about Crowds? Surely the game is more important? Not in Rugby League! This just shows what a farce the RFL and this franchising lark is! Fax will not be in SL and are not ready for it. Fev won the League and for me hoipe they win the Grand Final-best team over the year. They deserve to have a crack at SL rather than clubs who have won nothing this year! But the way the RFL keep moving goal posts to fit their point of view it would not surprise me if clubs did exagerate things to stay/get in SL. In many cases there is little difference between Barrow, Halifax, Leigh, Fev over Salford, Bradford, Quins, Crusaders , Wakey, Cas etc. Some clubs are only in SL due to a sugar Daddy being with them at the right time.


This is where the problem is.

P & R has gone, but people cannot accept it and take their frustrations out on Widnes for playing the RFL's game.

Whether we should have P & R back and whether Widnes deserve Super League are two very different arguments.

#60 mick wilson

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 16 2010, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it's simply to say that Widnes are a famous name in RL and much more so than the other clubs, How many times does it need pointing out.

ohmy.gif blush.gif




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