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RL could end up like Speedway in 5 years


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#41 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE (nadera78 @ Aug 18 2010, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Our friend from Leigh.


Is that exactly what he says or just the spin you would like to put on it?

He talks about poorly thought through expansion clubs and to be honest just because they are expansion clubs doesn't mean that they weren't poorly thought out.

A failing expansion club such as Quins probably does the image of our game more harm than it does good. It certainly does more than anything else to give the impression that RL is simply a northern game as it struggles so badly in the south.

Face it, if Quins were a northern RU club we would be laughing at them, claiming it proves that the north doesn't want RU.

#42 deluded pom?

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE (RP London @ Aug 18 2010, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
more than anything that just shows how good they are at this.. they used 2003 and ran with it.. we dont even get positive stories out there to be seen, where is the media bod at league headquarters shouting that this isnt true,



Maybe he did point out the claims were wrong but was ignored which wouldn't be beyond the realms of credibility.

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#43 John Drake

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 18 2010, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A successful national team is part of the answer but even that is only going to do so much because there is only really 1 maybe 2 international teams that it is worthwhile beating. People would soon see through this.


Beating those teams would be a start, wouldn't it? It's a big enough task for now. We could worry about people seeing through it later, so long as they were actually paying attention to it in the first place, which right now, they aren't.

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#44 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:46 AM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Aug 18 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe he did point out the claims were wrong but was ignored which wouldn't be beyond the realms of credibility.


And as he pointed out himself, we just get wrote off as chippy northerners.

We don't have the soapbox from which to shout our game up. Union doesn't need to try, the media do it for them and in certain area's such as internationals there is a genuine national interest in the outcome.

#45 nadera78

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:46 AM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 18 2010, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A successful national team is part of the answer but even that is only going to do so much because there is only really 1 maybe 2 international teams that it is worthwhile beating. People would soon see through this.


Really? What about in rahrah? How many times have England beaten Australia down under? Or New Zealand anywhere? Sixty years since Wales beat New Zealand. Scotland have never done it, Ireland similar I think.

What about the England football team? One trophy in the cabinet, and yet this recent world cup was the first in recent memory where the entire country wasn't convinced we were champions before the kick off.

Competitiveness is an illusion. You just need the friends in the media to help you with the slight of hand.
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#46 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:46 AM

Err didn't thr Times (and other papers) run lots of articles in 1995 ( after RU turned pro) confidently predicting the death on RL in 5 years -what happened there then......

#47 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:48 AM

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 18 2010, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Beating those teams would be a start, wouldn't it? It's a big enough task for now. We could worry about people seeing through it later, so long as they were actually paying attention to it in the first place, which right now, they aren't.


I don't disagree with you but it's not the only answer like some would believe. Many people seem to think that we would see something along the lines of England RU in 2003. We still wouldn't get a fraction of this.

Plus, isn't this a big reasoning behind licensing? To get more English playing the game so that we can beat the Aussies. It's not like the RFL are doing nothing now.

#48 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:52 AM

QUOTE (nadera78 @ Aug 18 2010, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Really? What about in rahrah? How many times have England beaten Australia down under? Or New Zealand anywhere? Sixty years since Wales beat New Zealand. Scotland have never done it, Ireland similar I think.

What about the England football team? One trophy in the cabinet, and yet this recent world cup was the first in recent memory where the entire country wasn't convinced we were champions before the kick off.

Competitiveness is an illusion. You just need the friends in the media to help you with the slight of hand.


You're first point is related in no way to what I was talking about.

In Union and Football there are many many more competitive international teams than in RL, so it is less likely to get old. Winning is a real achievement. Beating Australia would be but once it's been done then it's been done, there's no other level to go to.

#49 John Drake

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 18 2010, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't disagree with you but it's not the only answer like some would believe. Many people seem to think that we would see something along the lines of England RU in 2003. We still wouldn't get a fraction of this.


There's no point fretting about how much coverage RU gets, because there's nothing any of us can do about that. However, a successful national RL team would get more national press coverage than an unsuccessful one, and more coverage than a successful club RL side ever will. Moaning in advance that however much coverage that might be will not be as much as other sports get by default is a waste of energy, IMO. It'll still be more than RL gets now, which is the important thing.

QUOTE
Plus, isn't this a big reasoning behind licensing? To get more English playing the game so that we can beat the Aussies. It's not like the RFL are doing nothing now.


They're not doing nothing, but they're not doing enough. The whole game is club-centric and we pay a price for that.

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#50 Red Willow

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:02 PM

The driving force for the Media needs to come from the RFL. They should have a team that has targets to perform. They should utilise spending power to help the teams in the Championship to market themselves.

We need a whole game view, there should be some different options for marketing, such as a voucher season ticket, 6 games for 5 and fans can use these to go to any Championship 1 or 2 game look at the success Fax had. There should be some taster session options.

Salford had teams from Glasgow playing on Sunday and have spent a considerable time coaching etc in Scotland.

How can we get the Magic games more exposure?

We need to raise the profile of the challenge cup and invite some headline grabber to stand at the side of Steve Prescott.

We always seem to settle for second best.


#51 nadera78

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 18 2010, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're first point is related in no way to what I was talking about.

In Union and Football there are many many more competitive international teams than in RL, so it is less likely to get old. Winning is a real achievement. Beating Australia would be but once it's been done then it's been done, there's no other level to go to.


Yes it is. You said we only had two teams worth beating. I replied by saying that competitiveness as an illusion. So what if we always beat France in RL? The All Blacks always beat Wales but no-one complains about it being uncompetitive. It's not an achivevement at all, they do it everytime.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
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#52 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:05 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 18 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is that exactly what he says or just the spin you would like to put on it?

He talks about poorly thought through expansion clubs and to be honest just because they are expansion clubs doesn't mean that they weren't poorly thought out.

A failing expansion club such as Quins probably does the image of our game more harm than it does good. It certainly does more than anything else to give the impression that RL is simply a northern game as it struggles so badly in the south.

Face it, if Quins were a northern RU club we would be laughing at them, claiming it proves that the north doesn't want RU.


Nail on head

Nadera and I usually agree on London RL matters, so I'm suprised to hear that he interpreted my views as anti-expansionist. Quite the opposite. Truth is the London Broncos have been a disaster ever since the ridiculous decision to move to the Stoop in 1994/5 when there was nothing there! We actually co-funded the build of the Stoop for Quims RU!!! Truth is they should have stayed at Griffin Park straight after the Wigan game in 94/95 when there was over 8k on. Crusaders need to learn the same lesson and have already moved once. Another move for Crusaders will be the end. London RLFC needs to move any ##### where apart from the Stoop

Edited by Lobbygobbler, 18 August 2010 - 12:06 PM.


#53 RP London

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 18 2010, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wasn't there an 8 page pullout in the People for this?

the people is not that great a paper but fair play there was.. so we WILL get national coverage if we push hard enough.. we have to get it right and if so we get it.. great lets get it right then an continue this on.

#54 nadera78

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Aug 18 2010, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nadera and I usually agree on London RL matters, so I'm suprised to hear that he interpreted my views as anti-expansionist.


I must have misunderstood then, mate. No offensive meant.
"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#55 Futtocks

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:13 PM

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 18 2010, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The whole game is club-centric and we pay a price for that.


True. Whether we like it or not, when most non-RL people think about 'Rugby', the international scene is what catches their attention, because that's the way it is in RU (the code that gets all the attention). They apply those perceptions to RL, as they can't be bothered to find out that there is a difference in where the main power of our code lies.

When it comes to international competition, the media does take more of an interest in Rugby League. Not a huge amount more, but definitely more. England/GB winning a bit more would deliver even more coverage, but it's been decades since we won a significant trophy and we can't count on the indulgence of Football's massive following.

Even an international dimension at club level helps - the BBC were prepared to schlep their broadcasting team down to Toulouse a few years ago, when they played Widnes. Neither of them were SL teams, which is what the BBC usually picks for their televised ties.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#56 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:13 PM

QUOTE (nadera78 @ Aug 18 2010, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I must have misunderstood then, mate. No offensive meant.


No problem mate.

Hopefully the club I once followed with passion (London RLFC) can get itself sorted again if/when they get away from Quins

#57 RP London

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:15 PM

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 18 2010, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's no point fretting about how much coverage RU gets, because there's nothing any of us can do about that. However, a successful national RL team would get more national press coverage than an unsuccessful one, and more coverage than a successful club RL side ever will. Moaning in advance that however much coverage that might be will not be as much as other sports get by default is a waste of energy, IMO. It'll still be more than RL gets now, which is the important thing.



They're not doing nothing, but they're not doing enough. The whole game is club-centric and we pay a price for that.


spot on.. far too much time is taken looking at everyone else and how hard done to we are.. lets just look at what we have and grow it, more is better than nowt rather than "we want as much as thye have"

#58 RP London

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:19 PM

QUOTE (Futtocks @ Aug 18 2010, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
True. Whether we like it or not, when most non-RL people think about 'Rugby', the international scene is what catches their attention, because that's the way it is in RU (the code that gets all the attention). They apply those perceptions to RL, as they can't be bothered to find out that there is a difference in where the main power of our code lies.

When it comes to international competition, the media does take more of an interest in Rugby League. Not a huge amount more, but definitely more. England/GB winning a bit more would deliver even more coverage, but it's been decades since we won a significant trophy and we can't count on the indulgence of Football's massive following.

Even an international dimension at club level helps - the BBC were prepared to schlep their broadcasting team down to Toulouse a few years ago, when they played Widnes. Neither of them were SL teams, which is what the BBC usually picks for their televised ties.


the thing is that we seem to forget IMO.. is that they are national news papers... so they will be more interested in national things.. a few smaller towns in the north can be dismissed and left to the locals.. a good national team changes that.. IMO that is what happened to RU and then for them the interest in the club level was a "what happens underneath this".. at the moment all we really seem to have are these club teams all in different pockets of the north.. RU although pocketed in areas still has the international dimension that these papers sell it on the back of.. "who will get picked from this team for england" "johnny saves starling" etc etc they are sickening with the fawning over a couple of people but that is the national angle.. and we dont have that yet.

#59 bendyas

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:31 PM

The decision makers are too soft.

Fight all the wrong claims, press conference it up everytime someone lies shoiwng that the truth is x rather than rugby union.

Furthermore, RL is the toughest sport to play. By a mile. Let's celebrate this.



#60 tonyXIII

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE (RP London @ Aug 18 2010, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sorry thats just not true.. "whatever we do, the national media will ignore us"... we do plenty of things the national media do not ignore.. not all positive but with success etc then they may become interested again.. we CAN get national coverage becuase nothing is set in stone...

an expanding game over the last 10 years can open up corridors into companies and into news media with the universities etc.. this is still a bit off as it takes time for people to move up a ladder but you cannot write off the whole future of the universe becuase of what is happening today..

they CAN be brought back on side if we get things right.. whether they WILL or not is down to getting these thigns right but to sit back and say "it wont happen no matter what" is (sorry to say) daft.


I'll just have to disagree with you (and the others who share your view) on that. I happen to think there are vested (and powerful) interests out there who want to see us put in our place and kept there. I admire the optimism of those who believe that the national media can be brought on side, but I think it is misplaced and we should be looking to generate our own publicity. The national media will give us nothing. The only sensible suggestion that I've read so far is that we should buy our way in. If we take out adverts in the press, they will print them. It would, however, cost more than I believe we can afford.

Sorry to be so downbeat, but I despise soccer and the way our sporting world is being turned into a monoculture with the assistance of a spineless press.

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