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National Stadium for Rugby League


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#1 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 10:02 PM

With England looking to get the FIFA World Cup for 2018, and a redeveloped Elland Road to be one of these stadiums, would it not possibly be a good idea to try and latch onto this development? From what I gather, the stadium needs more funders for its expansion.

The RFL have had some good success at Elland Road (despite it being a dump at the moment). It's right in the middle of the heartlands. If you keep the two major finals (Challenge Cup Final and Grand Final) where they are, we could use the New Elland Road as a base for international games, World Club Challenges, maybe even have the Challenge Cup games there as Magic Weekend-style rounds.

I think RL would benefit from a base for its major events. The RFL could offer season tickets for their events there which could boost attendances for our major games all-round. Would only be worth doing though if we could get a certain amount of events there per year, and so far I can only think of:

World Club Challenge
Mid-Season Test
Challenge Cup 5th Round (MM-style 8 games in two days)
Challenge Cup QF (4 games in two days)
Challenge Cup SF (Double Header)
Championship Finals Day
3-4 End of Season Tests

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#2 Tommy The C5t

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 10:23 PM

QUOTE (Wellsy4HullFC @ Aug 23 2010, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With England looking to get the FIFA World Cup for 2018, and a redeveloped Elland Road to be one of these stadiums, would it not possibly be a good idea to try and latch onto this development? From what I gather, the stadium needs more funders for its expansion.

The RFL have had some good success at Elland Road (despite it being a dump at the moment). It's right in the middle of the heartlands. If you keep the two major finals (Challenge Cup Final and Grand Final) where they are, we could use the New Elland Road as a base for international games, World Club Challenges, maybe even have the Challenge Cup games there as Magic Weekend-style rounds.

I think RL would benefit from a base for its major events. The RFL could offer season tickets for their events there which could boost attendances for our major games all-round. Would only be worth doing though if we could get a certain amount of events there per year, and so far I can only think of:

World Club Challenge
Mid-Season Test
Challenge Cup 5th Round (MM-style 8 games in two days)
Challenge Cup QF (4 games in two days)
Challenge Cup SF (Double Header)
Championship Finals Day
3-4 End of Season Tests


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#3 HappyDave

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 10:47 PM

Wouldn't they have to rip out all the seating & add at least 2500 more seats to each of the 4 stands to make it a decent stadium? If the RFL decided to help fund the redevelopment would it just be Leeds United & the RFL who would fund it or would Leeds City Council also help out?

Edited by HappyDave, 23 August 2010 - 10:51 PM.

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#4 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 10:50 PM

QUOTE (HappyDave @ Aug 23 2010, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wouldn't they have to rip out all the seating & add at least 5000 more seats to each of the 4 stands to make it a decent stadium? If the RFL decided to help fund the redevelopment would it just be Leeds United & the RFL who would fund it or would Leeds City Council also help out?

Leeds City Council are the ones looking for funding apparently. Part of their bid to be a host city. They are the ones that will receive economic boosts from hosting the games, so they will want to make sure it's possible and secure funding.
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#5 HappyDave

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 11:05 PM

Ah! Cool. By the sounds of it the RFL should look into it as Elland Road isn't currently good enough for big RL games like the 4 Nations Final. Although in my opinion the RFL should be looking at the likes of the City of Manchester Stadium & the Stadium of Light for the RLWC 2013 Semi-Finals & obviously the Final should be somewhere like Wembley or if not then Old Trafford or the Emirites, as I'm guessing RL fans and the RFU would be to petty to accept/have it at Twickenham.

Edited by HappyDave, 23 August 2010 - 11:07 PM.

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#6 John Drake

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE (Wellsy4HullFC @ Aug 23 2010, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With England looking to get the FIFA World Cup for 2018, and a redeveloped Elland Road to be one of these stadiums, would it not possibly be a good idea to try and latch onto this development? From what I gather, the stadium needs more funders for its expansion.

The RFL have had some good success at Elland Road (despite it being a dump at the moment). It's right in the middle of the heartlands. If you keep the two major finals (Challenge Cup Final and Grand Final) where they are, we could use the New Elland Road as a base for international games, World Club Challenges, maybe even have the Challenge Cup games there as Magic Weekend-style rounds.

I think RL would benefit from a base for its major events. The RFL could offer season tickets for their events there which could boost attendances for our major games all-round. Would only be worth doing though if we could get a certain amount of events there per year, and so far I can only think of:

World Club Challenge
Mid-Season Test
Challenge Cup 5th Round (MM-style 8 games in two days)
Challenge Cup QF (4 games in two days)
Challenge Cup SF (Double Header)
Championship Finals Day
3-4 End of Season Tests


A few things wrong with this idea IMO.

It wouldn't ever be a true National Rugby League Stadium. It'd always just be Elland Road, home of Leeds Utd Football Club, where the RFL occasionally plays matches. Which is what it is now. What benefit would the RFL possibly derive from such an investment? It'd be cheaper just to hire the place out when they need it. Which in my view, should be never anyway.

The idea of confining major RL internationals to Leeds depresses me enormously. It's a recipe for ensuring RL disappears completely off the national radar. We used to play internationals at Wembley and make a song and dance about them. The sooner we get back to that, the better.

The WCC has done ok crowdwise at Elland Road, but that's when Leeds have been playing. One day, it might be another team, from another city.

It would be perverse for the game to have a 'National Stadium' of its own but continue to play the two biggest games of the season elsewhere. Similarly, it would be a travesty to play the Challenge Cup final anywhere else but Wembley or the SL Grand Final at Old Trafford. Therefore, is there any need for a National Stadium in the first place?

Lets use the biggest and most iconic venues in the whole of the UK for our biggest, most important games. If that means never playing another RL match at Elland Road ever again, I for one wouldn't be unhappy about that. wink.gif

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#7 steef

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 11:19 PM

what the guy above me said plus, and I seem to be on my own realising this, Elland rd is a GRAVEYARD for our national side. I'd be more than happy for England/GB to never play there again, redeveloped or not.
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#8 HappyDave

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 12:07 AM

Why can't the RFL use nice 'sparkly' new-ish football stadiums (stadia?) like Man City's or Arsenal's for the likes of the WCC or 4 Nations Final? Would Brammel Lane be a good stadium for the WCC if Wigan or Wires get there next year or is it too far away/not good enough?
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#9 ParisSurtout

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 02:40 AM

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 23 2010, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A few things wrong with this idea IMO.

It wouldn't ever be a true National Rugby League Stadium. It'd always just be Elland Road, home of Leeds Utd Football Club, where the RFL occasionally plays matches. Which is what it is now. What benefit would the RFL possibly derive from such an investment? It'd be cheaper just to hire the place out when they need it. Which in my view, should be never anyway.

The idea of confining major RL internationals to Leeds depresses me enormously. It's a recipe for ensuring RL disappears completely off the national radar. We used to play internationals at Wembley and make a song and dance about them. The sooner we get back to that, the better.

The WCC has done ok crowdwise at Elland Road, but that's when Leeds have been playing. One day, it might be another team, from another city.

It would be perverse for the game to have a 'National Stadium' of its own but continue to play the two biggest games of the season elsewhere. Similarly, it would be a travesty to play the Challenge Cup final anywhere else but Wembley or the SL Grand Final at Old Trafford. Therefore, is there any need for a National Stadium in the first place?

Lets use the biggest and most iconic venues in the whole of the UK for our biggest, most important games. If that means never playing another RL match at Elland Road ever again, I for one wouldn't be unhappy about that. wink.gif



I agree with all of the above. The original poster obviously had not thought through his position carefully.

I also want to emphasize how crucial it is that all future England vs Australia games must be held at Wembley if rugby league is ever to be taken seriously in Britain -- by both mass media and general public -- as an important international sport. We got 73,000 there in 1992 for a World Cup final. No reason why we can't do it again.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 24 August 2010 - 02:45 AM.

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#10 roughyedspud

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 06:05 AM

we have a national Rugby league stadium....and there'll be 85,000+ people sat in it on saturday

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#11 RP London

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:38 AM

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 23 2010, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A few things wrong with this idea IMO.

It wouldn't ever be a true National Rugby League Stadium. It'd always just be Elland Road, home of Leeds Utd Football Club, where the RFL occasionally plays matches. Which is what it is now. What benefit would the RFL possibly derive from such an investment? It'd be cheaper just to hire the place out when they need it. Which in my view, should be never anyway.

The idea of confining major RL internationals to Leeds depresses me enormously. It's a recipe for ensuring RL disappears completely off the national radar. We used to play internationals at Wembley and make a song and dance about them. The sooner we get back to that, the better.

The WCC has done ok crowdwise at Elland Road, but that's when Leeds have been playing. One day, it might be another team, from another city.

It would be perverse for the game to have a 'National Stadium' of its own but continue to play the two biggest games of the season elsewhere. Similarly, it would be a travesty to play the Challenge Cup final anywhere else but Wembley or the SL Grand Final at Old Trafford. Therefore, is there any need for a National Stadium in the first place?

Lets use the biggest and most iconic venues in the whole of the UK for our biggest, most important games. If that means never playing another RL match at Elland Road ever again, I for one wouldn't be unhappy about that. wink.gif


yes

can i also add..

How much do they want for the funding?? tens of millions... so 2 points

1. do the RFL actually have that type of money

2. just think of what we can do with that money if we had it..
fund junior development in umpteen areas
help championship and super league clubs get themselves sorted stadium wise and junior academy wise
get a London club a better presence both in the city ie a base and in the press and marketing
get the crusaders settled and developing
get the game started and promoted in Ireland and Scotland

as they cannot seem to do any of hte bits in question 2 then i would suspect the answer to quesntion 1 is "no". if it is "yes" then i would personally prefer any of/all of the ideas in question 2 to be done before we start frittering money away on something we dont need for all of JD's reasons.

#12 tim2

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:44 AM

Bramall Lane for a WC semi. In fact a CC semi next year would be nice
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#13 deluded pom?

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:55 AM

The problem with trying to use Premiership football grounds is the fact that they don't desperately need the money (Man City certainly don't but Arsenal might to repay the costs of building the Emirates) and they'll be under pressure from the FA to only use their stadium for football.

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#14 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 24 2010, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A few things wrong with this idea IMO.

It wouldn't ever be a true National Rugby League Stadium. It'd always just be Elland Road, home of Leeds Utd Football Club, where the RFL occasionally plays matches. Which is what it is now. What benefit would the RFL possibly derive from such an investment? It'd be cheaper just to hire the place out when they need it. Which in my view, should be never anyway.

It depends on how many events you hold there as to how people would see it. If it is a significant number, then people will more likely see it as a home for RL events. Otherwise, I'd agree with what you're saying. To me, it's just like a football club sharing with a Super League club but on a larger scale.

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 24 2010, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The idea of confining major RL internationals to Leeds depresses me enormously. It's a recipe for ensuring RL disappears completely off the national radar. We used to play internationals at Wembley and make a song and dance about them. The sooner we get back to that, the better.

I disagree. We've been playing internationals up north for a decade now. How many England/GB gameshave been played in the south? GB vs NZ in 2005. That's it.
So we're not exactly exhausting all our options aroundthe country. Rather, just switching between the usual mid-sized 25k stadia of SL. I think if the RFL had a base for events, then the stability and familiarity generated would help improve crowds more than just chopping and changing venues. I'd love to see us return to 70k+ crowds at Wembley for internationals, but isit going to happen? We could still use it for the World Cup I suppose.

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 24 2010, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The WCC has done ok crowdwise at Elland Road, but that's when Leeds have been playing. One day, it might be another team, from another city.

The WCC suffers greatly as an event because you only find out a few months before where it's going to be played. We know where the GF and CCF will be played every year, so why not the same for the WCC? If advertised and marketed right, then people will be buying tickets all year round rather than waiting to see if the two teams are attractive enough for them.

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 24 2010, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It would be perverse for the game to have a 'National Stadium' of its own but continue to play the two biggest games of the season elsewhere. Similarly, it would be a travesty to play the Challenge Cup final anywhere else but Wembley or the SL Grand Final at Old Trafford. Therefore, is there any need for a National Stadium in the first place?

I disagree. I don't see how it would be perverse at all. Is it any different from a sports club taking its bigger games to a bigger stadium than their home ground because they can't fit them in? Quins at Twickenham and Saracens at Wembley for example?

QUOTE (John Drake @ Aug 24 2010, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lets use the biggest and most iconic venues in the whole of the UK for our biggest, most important games. If that means never playing another RL match at Elland Road ever again, I for one wouldn't be unhappy about that. wink.gif

And what I've proposed won't change that. Unfortunately we only have 2 games that regularly get above 40k (and well above it at that). We need to start building our events to these levels, but because we constantly chop and change the venue and only announce it a few months prior, we don't get a proper chance to build these events up.
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#15 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:41 AM

QUOTE (HappyDave @ Aug 24 2010, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why can't the RFL use nice 'sparkly' new-ish football stadiums (stadia?) like Man City's or Arsenal's for the likes of the WCC or 4 Nations Final? Would Brammel Lane be a good stadium for the WCC if Wigan or Wires get there next year or is it too far away/not good enough?

When Elland Road is redeveloped then hopefully it will be a nicer and sparklier stadium. There's a lot that needs doing to it. It's going to most likely be a smaller version of Old Trafford in the way it's being redeveloped.
And why would Brammel Lane be any better than Elland Road for Wigan/Wire? It's further away isn't it?

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Aug 24 2010, 03:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also want to emphasize how crucial it is that all future England vs Australia games must be held at Wembley if rugby league is ever to be taken seriously in Britain -- by both mass media and general public -- as an important international sport. We got 73,000 there in 1992 for a World Cup final. No reason why we can't do it again.

I disagree. Why is it a necessity we play at Wembley to be taken seriously? How many other sports play their national games there? Did we get taken seriously before when we used to play there?
Plus, when we play World Cups over here, it can still be used.

QUOTE (roughyedspud @ Aug 24 2010, 07:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
we have a national Rugby league stadium....and there'll be 85,000+ people sat in it on saturday

How many games do we play there? Hardly a stadium to represent the sport!
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#16 Maltese Falcon

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:42 AM

I don't wish to see a single from the RFL going towards the redevelopment of a stadium that is more often than not inhabited by football supporters - and L**ds supporters at that. It's making me feel ill just thinking about it.

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#17 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:55 AM

QUOTE (RP London @ Aug 24 2010, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yes

can i also add..

How much do they want for the funding?? tens of millions... so 2 points

1. do the RFL actually have that type of money

The RFL makea profit, but they spend as much of it as they can on other parts of the game.
If they earmarked some money for this over the years, then it would pay for itself with increased revenue from bigger gates and lower costs. It's an investment that would directly pay back.

QUOTE (RP London @ Aug 24 2010, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2. just think of what we can do with that money if we had it..
fund junior development in umpteen areas
help championship and super league clubs get themselves sorted stadium wise and junior academy wise
get a London club a better presence both in the city ie a base and in the press and marketing
get the crusaders settled and developing
get the game started and promoted in Ireland and Scotland

Apart from first one,the rest isn't really the RFL's job to fund, and wouldn't really bring them much back in terms of direct money. It's just them throwing money at projects that won't be giving them money back directly.
With their own stadium, they'd. Be getting more money from events that they can then use to fund better projects over the years anyway.

QUOTE (RP London @ Aug 24 2010, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
as they cannot seem to do any of hte bits in question 2 then i would suspect the answer to quesntion 1 is "no". if it is "yes" then i would personally prefer any of/all of the ideas in question 2 to be done before we start frittering money away on something we dont need for all of JD's reasons.

I would like to see the RFL being more effecient with the money they use as well as maximise its turnover in order to be able to fund further projects. Sometimes you need to specualte to accumulate. If we keep doing what we're doing, we're going to be standing still on the event front for a long time.


QUOTE (tim2 @ Aug 24 2010, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bramall Lane for a WC semi. In fact a CC semi next year would be nice



QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Aug 24 2010, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem with trying to use Premiership football grounds is the fact that they don't desperately need the money (Man City certainly don't but Arsenal might to repay the costs of building the Emirates) and they'll be under pressure from the FA to only use their stadium for football.


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#18 iangidds

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:03 AM

QUOTE (Wellsy4HullFC @ Aug 23 2010, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With England looking to get the FIFA World Cup for 2018, and a redeveloped Elland Road to be one of these stadiums, would it not possibly be a good idea to try and latch onto this development? From what I gather, the stadium needs more funders for its expansion.

The RFL have had some good success at Elland Road (despite it being a dump at the moment). It's right in the middle of the heartlands. If you keep the two major finals (Challenge Cup Final and Grand Final) where they are, we could use the New Elland Road as a base for international games, World Club Challenges, maybe even have the Challenge Cup games there as Magic Weekend-style rounds.

I think RL would benefit from a base for its major events. The RFL could offer season tickets for their events there which could boost attendances for our major games all-round. Would only be worth doing though if we could get a certain amount of events there per year, and so far I can only think of:

World Club Challenge
Mid-Season Test
Challenge Cup 5th Round (MM-style 8 games in two days)
Challenge Cup QF (4 games in two days)
Challenge Cup SF (Double Header)
Championship Finals Day
3-4 End of Season Tests



#19 iangidds

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:04 AM

your business skills and vision are really coming to the surface now ! NOT

#20 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 12:06 PM

QUOTE (iangidds @ Aug 24 2010, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
your business skills and vision are really coming to the surface now ! NOT

So are your IT skills wink.gif

Enlighten me, otherwise you're just making unproductive noise.
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