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Vikings announce financial figures


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#41 dallymessenger

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 08:09 AM

i love all the expert accountants on here querying this figure

i dont know armchair RL fans were such experts at accountancy

perhaps they should lend their considerable skills to helping their own club make a profit

#42 bewareshadows

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Aug 29 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i love all the expert accountants on here querying this figure

i dont know armchair RL fans were such experts at accountancy

perhaps they should lend their considerable skills to helping their own club make a profit


Hey I'mpositive about this news, in my club any RL club making a profit of 1 penny is a good result and worthy of their salt. But simple maths is used for the calculation of 15 x 3000 fans x 15 home games, ok you can argue the other 800 pay something too, but even at full price that brings total fan income through the gate of about 800k.

So the rest of the 2.5 million income must come from somewhere the question is where?

I would assume some from the RFL, some from TV, some from prize money, some from sponsorship, some from merchandise, and some corporate but even I would struggle to believe this would be around double what they get in off the gate. I'm sure the chairman in the last financial year for license has added some to make certain the application is as good as possible, the question is how much?

If it only adds to the profit all well and good, if it changes the figures from loss to profit then the results are not as positive as have been made out.
Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#43 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:55 PM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Aug 29 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i love all the expert accountants on here querying this figure

i dont know armchair RL fans were such experts at accountancy

perhaps they should lend their considerable skills to helping their own club make a profit

Is it hard to believe that RL fans can grasp basic accountancy? Just because you struggle with basic figures, doesn't mean everyone does!


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#44 dallymessenger

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 12:29 AM

QUOTE (Wellsy4HullFC @ Aug 29 2010, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is it hard to believe that RL fans can grasp basic accountancy? Just because you struggle with basic figures, doesn't mean everyone does!


seriously all these armchair accounting genii should be helping out at their RL clubs

use their immense talents for the good of RL.

#45 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 07:58 AM

it's nothing short of a miracle. It's loaves and fishes all over again.
The Stobart Stdium could well replace Lourdes on the back of this.
a million quid up ###### creek one year, a million quid in the back pocket the next
where has that two million come from? And the timing nothing short of eerie.
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#46 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:02 AM

QUOTE (Bomb Jack @ Aug 28 2010, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With a member of Halton Borough Council on our Board, we probably do pay a ridiculously low rent.


if that is the case, then the serious fraud squad are missing a trick
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#47 Derwent

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:08 AM

Are these figures purely for Widnes Vikings RL club, or are they for the parent company Widnes Sport Ltd which I think incorporates some other activities ?

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#48 dallymessenger

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 10:07 AM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Aug 30 2010, 07:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it's nothing short of a miracle. It's loaves and fishes all over again.
The Stobart Stdium could well replace Lourdes on the back of this.
a million quid up ###### creek one year, a million quid in the back pocket the next
where has that two million come from? And the timing nothing short of eerie.


perhaps some of the profits are connected to write backs of previous losses.

since no one on here questioned the size of their losses i dont see why people should question the profits?

widnes got slagged by everyone for their losses - me included

now its reversed ill give them the praise they deserve

clearly the situation has turned around markedly there

#49 Derwent

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 10:26 AM

Dally nobody can really praise or criticise them until we know what the reason is for the turnaround. It may be that there is a one-off exceptional item that has caused the increase. The real measure is what is their financial performance on a normalised operating basis. For all we know they may have been running at an operating loss and the figures have been skewed by a one-off gain for the year. Hopefully that isn't the case, but its like Leeds recently announcing a 3m profit which when analysed more closely revealed that 2.9m of that came from selling an asset. The operating profit (or loss) is a much more meaningful figure than the bottom line figure in terms of assessing how the club is performing. Until we know that figure then its impossible to pass any kind of judgement.

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#50 dallymessenger

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 12:27 PM

QUOTE (Derwent @ Aug 30 2010, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dally nobody can really praise or criticise them until we know what the reason is for the turnaround. It may be that there is a one-off exceptional item that has caused the increase. The real measure is what is their financial performance on a normalised operating basis. For all we know they may have been running at an operating loss and the figures have been skewed by a one-off gain for the year. Hopefully that isn't the case, but its like Leeds recently announcing a 3m profit which when analysed more closely revealed that 2.9m of that came from selling an asset. The operating profit (or loss) is a much more meaningful figure than the bottom line figure in terms of assessing how the club is performing. Until we know that figure then its impossible to pass any kind of judgement.


fair enough

but as i said were people critiquing it when they lost millions of pounds?

why is it only when its good news people criticise it?

personally i think its connected with the past losses. or perhaps previously there were one off extraordinary expenses?

either way its certainly a turnaround from the years before their sugar daddy got on board (forgot his name)

good luck to widnes theyve certainly turned things around since 3 years ago and will make a great addition to SL.

#51 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 03:27 PM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Aug 30 2010, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
perhaps some of the profits are connected to write backs of previous losses.

since no one on here questioned the size of their losses i dont see why people should question the profits?

widnes got slagged by everyone for their losses - me included

now its reversed ill give them the praise they deserve

clearly the situation has turned around markedly there


I'm not slagging them off
it's a massive and quick turn around of fortune for the club and therefore worthy of discussion
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#52 JackBauer

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Aug 30 2010, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if that is the case, then the serious fraud squad are missing a trick


That's a serious allegation to make with absolutely no information to back it up.

#53 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE (JackBauer @ Aug 30 2010, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's a serious allegation to make with absolutely no information to back it up.

I'm not making the allegation you dummy. The person I was responding to was making the allegation. have another look.
He's saying that the Vikings receive preferential treatment because there is a councillor on the board. IF THAt is the case(and I doubt it), then it's a serious issue.

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#54 widnesvikings

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:08 PM

well read this thread, only one thought, rugby league as some jealous barstewards from other clubs full stop. Widnes Vikings the richest club outside of superleague,and Widnes Vikings one of the richest clubs in superleague 2012.
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WIDNES VIKINGS CHESHIRES MOST FAMOUS RUGBY LEAGUE CLUB

#55 Johnny Rocco

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:20 PM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Aug 30 2010, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not making the allegation you dummy. The person I was responding to was making the allegation. have another look.
He's saying that the Vikings receive preferential treatment because there is a councillor on the board. IF THAt is the case(and I doubt it), then it's a serious issue.



The councillor is on the board on behalf of the council who have a stake in the club, so any preferential treatment I would imagine has council backing.

#56 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:43 PM

QUOTE (Johnny Rocco @ Aug 30 2010, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The councillor is on the board on behalf of the council who have a stake in the club, so any preferential treatment I would imagine has council backing.


I know why he/she is on the board. But when you start talking about 'preferential treatment' and councils, like this person was doing then it doesn't look right., which was my point. For this to happen would be very untoward, and I doubt very much that it is. Compris?
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#57 Derwent

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 07:27 PM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Aug 30 2010, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know why he/she is on the board. But when you start talking about 'preferential treatment' and councils, like this person was doing then it doesn't look right., which was my point. For this to happen would be very untoward, and I doubt very much that it is. Compris?


Why is it untoward ? Councils often give sporting clubs preferential treatment if they have economic benefit to the area. For example, one issue that has come out of Whitehaven's current situation is that Copeland Council have been forced to admit that they acted as guarantor for 125k worth of loans and overdrafts for the club and now look like having to cough up public money to settle them. Would they offer that kind of guarantee to any other privately owned business ?

Workington Town. Then. Now. Always.


#58 Bulletproof

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 07:29 PM

Funny old world. Last year, Widnes post a loss. People are more than happy to accept the figure and despite excuses of mass expenditure on stadium facilities these goes unnoticed as people pour the usual scorn.

This season, we post a profit, and people wont actually accept the figure and accuse us of "fudging" them.

People will believe what they want to believe and most of the time they don't want to believe Widnes are a capable, well run club. We're debt free and operating well, we all have the same information on this at this stage, so speculation is largely pointless, but you'd think people would leave it at that.

#59 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Derwent @ Aug 30 2010, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why is it untoward ? Councils often give sporting clubs preferential treatment if they have economic benefit to the area. For example, one issue that has come out of Whitehaven's current situation is that Copeland Council have been forced to admit that they acted as guarantor for 125k worth of loans and overdrafts for the club and now look like having to cough up public money to settle them. Would they offer that kind of guarantee to any other privately owned business ?

then it isn't preferential treatment is it?
It can be a valid act of social policy.

maybe the council shouldn't have given that guarantee. If I was a council tax payer in Whitehaven I would be concerned.

If the council in its actions were doing things wjich only benefitted the club and not the community then it would be preferential treatment.

How much does Whitehaven RLFC man to the local communities, what is its worth top those people? Hopw much do the communities represnted by the Coiuncil benefit from the eitence of the club? What was all that council tax payers' money used for? There don't seem to be y developments at the club.
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#60 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 07:39 PM

QUOTE (Bulletproof @ Aug 30 2010, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Funny old world. Last year, Widnes post a loss. People are more than happy to accept the figure and despite excuses of mass expenditure on stadium facilities these goes unnoticed as people pour the usual scorn.

This season, we post a profit, and people wont actually accept the figure and accuse us of "fudging" them.

People will believe what they want to believe and most of the time they don't want to believe Widnes are a capable, well run club. We're debt free and operating well, we all have the same information on this at this stage, so speculation is largely pointless, but you'd think people would leave it at that.

I want to believe that everything is OK at Widnes
I wonder whether you'd ask questions if a simillar situation existed at another club?
It's perfectly valid to be interested in and ask questions about what is going on here.

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 30 August 2010 - 07:39 PM.

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