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#101 dallymessenger

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 04:39 AM

widnes are going to be a fantastic addition to SL

they also demonstate why franchising is the way forward for RL.

had you had P&R widnes wouldve been wasting money on players on last years championship grand final, rather than investing in juniors.

their 3 years in the championship shows other ambitious non SL clubs if they develop off the field theyll be in SL too

it also means underperforming SL clubs will be replaced and forced to develop or stay away from SL.

halifax or leigh will clearly be pressuring SL clubs next time

#102 a.n Other

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 4 2010, 05:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
.

had you had P&R widnes wouldve been wasting money on players on last years championship grand final, rather than investing in juniors.



Widnes according to their press release have spent the full cap - so dont see how they could have "wasted" any more money?

#103 chrisl1

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE (tonyXIII @ Sep 2 2010, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, I've just read your link a bit more carefully and I think point 10 is rather interesting, don't you?

"Compliance with salary-cap regulations. Specifically, clubs must not have incurred any breach of the salary cap in the last three years."

If this is still in place, one or two clubs might be sweating in 8 months time, don't you think? Or perhaps not, considering who the likely culprits are? ph34r.gif

I don't know what is in place for Super League clubs but the 5 minimum criteria for Championship clubs surprisingly does not include compliance with the Salary Cap Regulations.

http://news.bbc.co.u...gue/8885900.stm

#104 tonyXIII

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE (chrisl1 @ Sep 4 2010, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know what is in place for Super League clubs but the 5 minimum criteria for Championship clubs surprisingly does not include compliance with the Salary Cap Regulations.

http://news.bbc.co.u...gue/8885900.stm


That is interesting. Widnes are nailed on certs, why wait to make the announcement?

The lack of a 'salary cap compliance' criterion is puzzling, to say the least. If this is the same, or even similar, for SL clubs, then next year is going to get very interesting/acrimonious/bitter. What are the criteria and how will the decision-making process work? (By "decision-making process", I mean how will the RFL apply the criteria and what happens when clubs achieve the same grade? This grey area was the problem last time - the criteria were clear, but the application wasn't.)

Anyway, Widnes are in from 2012. That much is clear. Who is out? ph34r.gif

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#105 Bulletproof

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 09:10 PM

From a personal perspective, sure it will be sad for anyone to drop down, but let's be honest, its no worse than consigning everyone else to the championship for three years minimum. I don't mind who it is as long as they make what I feel is the right choice to step up.

#106 tonyXIII

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 09:33 PM

QUOTE (Bulletproof @ Sep 5 2010, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From a personal perspective, sure it will be sad for anyone to drop down, but let's be honest, its no worse than consigning everyone else to the championship for three years minimum. I don't mind who it is as long as they make what I feel is the right choice to step up.


Yes, but that's a 'given' isn't it?

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#107 Bulletproof

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 01:49 AM

QUOTE (tonyXIII @ Sep 4 2010, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, but that's a 'given' isn't it?


Almost nothing is a given in this world and this certainly isn't. We're the right decision to my mind, but we've been passed over in the past and I'm not counting any unhatched chickens any time soon.

#108 dallymessenger

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 04:51 AM

QUOTE (a.n Other @ Sep 4 2010, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Widnes according to their press release have spent the full cap - so dont see how they could have "wasted" any more money?


wow so they spend full cap, plus develop juniors and make a good profit.

tick all the boxes

#109 Bomb Jack

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 06:53 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 5 2010, 05:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow so they spend full cap, plus develop juniors and make a good profit.

tick all the boxes


Yes, but because we didn't top the League some fans think we shouldn't go up !

Ground,Juniors,Turnover,fans,all irrelevant you know..............
Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !

#110 dallymessenger

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE (Bomb Jack @ Sep 5 2010, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, but because we didn't top the League some fans think we shouldn't go up !

Ground,Juniors,Turnover,fans,all irrelevant you know..............


winning one game to determine who gets into SL or basing it on the club with the better ground, juniors, finances, sugar daddy etc etc

yeah, its franchising for me

#111 Segovia Carpet

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:44 AM

Widnes have to be included next time - no question about that - they have followed the Blueprint perfectly. One other plus is that geographically its correct that Widnes are included as there is an imbalance between clubs in Lancs & Yorks.

Last time I saw the odds (Hills) it was Cas & Wakey both even money to go & 8/1 bar so it looks a toss up there.

#112 dallymessenger

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Segovia Carpet @ Sep 5 2010, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Widnes have to be included next time - no question about that - they have followed the Blueprint perfectly. One other plus is that geographically its correct that Widnes are included as there is an imbalance between clubs in Lancs & Yorks.

Last time I saw the odds (Hills) it was Cas & Wakey both even money to go & 8/1 bar so it looks a toss up there.


wakey for me

after so many promises to improve their ground theyve got to go

plus cas crowds are higher and the jungle is a better ground than bv - not by much but its passable



#113 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE (Segovia Carpet @ Sep 5 2010, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Widnes have to be included next time - no question about that - they have followed the Blueprint perfectly. One other plus is that geographically its correct that Widnes are included as there is an imbalance between clubs in Lancs & Yorks.

Last time I saw the odds (Hills) it was Cas & Wakey both even money to go & 8/1 bar so it looks a toss up there.


I can't see how anyone would drop Cas over Wakey I'm afraid.

#114 a.n Other

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 5 2010, 05:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow so they spend full cap, plus develop juniors and make a good profit.

tick all the boxes



Indeed - what they are achieving with SOC is fantastic. But, they wouldnt have been able to spend or as you put it "waste" more money then they already were as they were spending the full cap anyway.

#115 dallymessenger

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE (a.n Other @ Sep 5 2010, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Indeed - what they are achieving with SOC is fantastic. But, they wouldnt have been able to spend or as you put it "waste" more money then they already were as they were spending the full cap anyway.


if winning the champ. final was the only criteria into SL, a well cashed up club like widnes would find more ways to reward / sign players to ensure they win it

rather than waste this money they are investing it wisely

#116 a.n Other

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 5 2010, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if winning the champ. final was the only criteria into SL, a well cashed up club like widnes would find more ways to reward / sign players to ensure they win it

rather than waste this money they are investing it wisely



So you are saying that they would cheat?

Edited by a.n Other, 05 September 2010 - 12:27 PM.


#117 chrisl1

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 10:06 PM

QUOTE (tonyXIII @ Sep 4 2010, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The lack of a 'salary cap compliance' criterion is puzzling, to say the least. If this is the same, or even similar, for SL clubs, then next year is going to get very interesting/acrimonious/bitter. What are the criteria and how will the decision-making process work? (By "decision-making process", I mean how will the RFL apply the criteria and what happens when clubs achieve the same grade? This grey area was the problem last time - the criteria were clear, but the application wasn't.)

There are some new details about licensing on the RFL's website. It doesn't explain everything by any means but it does update what was on there previously.



http://www.therfl.co....php?areaid=193

#118 tonyXIII

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 11:23 PM

QUOTE (chrisl1 @ Sep 6 2010, 01:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are some new details about licensing on the RFL's website. It doesn't explain everything by any means but it does update what was on there previously.



http://www.therfl.co....php?areaid=193


That makes interesting reading.

Championship Clubs that meet the minimum criteria can apply in December. Methinks only Widnes and Halifax? The one successful club will be informed in March. Methinks Widnes?

Any other Championship Club and all SL clubs then apply in April for the 13 SL places available (assuming Widnes are given the nod). This means that Halifax, say, could also get into SL for 2012 and two SL clubs could go.

With one of the minimum criteria being that the club won the NR Cup or reached the GF, only Widnes, Halifax, Barrow and Batley are currently in a position to apply. Batley have more or less said they aren't ready and Barrow will fail on ground and attendance criteria. Reading the notes in the link (I've seen them before somewhere), Featherstone might be close if they make the GF. I can't see anyone else who is.

Anyone else got views?

edit. Perhaps this needs a thread of its own? Or have we already had too many such threads?

Edited by tonyXIII, 05 September 2010 - 11:24 PM.

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#119 dallymessenger

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 02:00 AM

QUOTE (a.n Other @ Sep 5 2010, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you are saying that they would cheat?


im saying when you make SL entry conditional on winning one game, clubs will spend all they can do achieve that

now the RFL has brought in franchising clubs have to spend money on other areas which are more important

widnes show why franchising works.

#120 The Parksider

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 07:18 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 6 2010, 03:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm saying when you make SL entry conditional on winning one game, clubs will spend all they can do achieve that

now the RFL has brought in franchising clubs have to spend money on other areas which are more important


I look forward to the day then when Franchising forces an NL club to buy a new stadium out of it's own money and increase it's own commercial activities to be able to spend full cap.

The way to SL for NL clubs is clear. You need land assets in your ground, and the local council to facilitate a ground rebuild for you, then you need a multi millionaire at the helm.

Those are the real two franchise criteria and you have to be lucky enough to have the land asset and find the sugar daddy.

How would Oldham ever build towards SL by being manipulated by the franchise criteria????

How are Halifax and Leigh going to be able to compete if they get in SL

For SL you need money and existing land assets which IS money.

Respect to all clubs, but NL rugby league doesn't generate the money to get in Superleague.

Franchises are just a bar to clubs with no money




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