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Trouble at Harlequins?


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#1 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:30 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...don/8944609.stm

Surprised this went unnoticed.

QUOTE
"There's an air of uncertainty hanging about the club and they don't know what's happening next year,"


Quotes like this from McDermott are very worrying. I can't see them pulling the plug completely but are we looking at another move?

Hopefully, I think the Quins experiment has failed. It was worth a risk but they are trapped in a situation where they are totally overshadowed by a club that 95% of people can't differentiate them from.

#2 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 06:27 PM

Old news.. but I suspect that you will hear nothing until next week as the Quins demise would knock the gloss off the game's sellout showpiece event at Wembley where no doubt some of the games "movers and shakers" will be trying to sort something out.
That said though the outlook is bleak as most planning for next season is done during the middle of the preceding season. With no new signings and some of the clubs playing assetts almost being encouraged to go elsewhere, morale amongst the fans is at the lowest ebb it has ever been and to be sure out of approx 1,000 season ticket holders possibly up to half may not renew considering what's on offer (or rather not on offer). and without supporters there can be no professional club.
That is of course if there is an offer for season tickets for 2011 made,to existing supporters I would look for an announcement come Thursday about either relocation out of London or the club being wound up. Although this in itself probably presents a legal problem in that although the club is debt free the club liabilities have been "eaten" by the minority 35% shareholder, which leaves the majority 65% shareholder with exactly what ?
I do feel sad for the players and their families as this cannot be a very comfortable time and by the sound of it, Brian Mac is articulating the concerns of the club's employee's at the lack of information coming out of the club.

I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths


 

 

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Being an outsider, it is easiest to see what is wrong with the sport. It's a fantastic sport that has been undersold and under-marketed  because people who run it probably want to keep it the way it is

 

 

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#3 goldcard

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:05 PM

Max, you're "hopeful" the Quins experiment has failed?

I do agree with the brand being overshadowed, though.
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#4 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:17 PM

QUOTE (goldcard @ Aug 27 2010, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Max, you're "hopeful" the Quins experiment has failed?

I do agree with the brand being overshadowed, though.


Sorry that's what you get for typing too fast. I meant to say hopefully it will be a move and not for instance the end of London RL. The bit about Quins not working wasn't meant to be linked to that point really.

#5 ParisSurtout

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:42 PM

Damned sad situation.

David Hughes is a real hero for taking responsibility for all the club's debt. But the only thing that can save the club is a wealthy investor who is willing to create a professional marketing deparment and find a way out of the club's media blackout.

I have always felt that a Murdoch investment would be a good thing (News Ltd has owned majority shareholding in three clubs in the NRL --- Brisbane Broncos, North Queensland Cowboys, and Melbourne Storm --- and now look like going down to one, the highly profitable Broncos). If that happened then they would be motivated to get their London based newspapers (The Sun and The Times) to cover and maybe even to promote the London club.

How you get all of the Murdoch family, or at least one of them, to do that is another matter.

The other alternative is to try and find a Russian investor. They have money to burn.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 27 August 2010 - 07:51 PM.

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#6 Northern Sol

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 09:39 PM

According to some folk, Bronquins are of such massive value to Sky that they would have little interest in a SL without them. This being the case, surely they have nothing to worry because Uncle Rupert will be getting his wallet out.

Unfortunately I don't share this view.

#7 goldcard

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 09:58 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 27 2010, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry that's what you get for typing too fast. I meant to say hopefully it will be a move and not for instance the end of London RL. The bit about Quins not working wasn't meant to be linked to that point really.

Thought that's what was meant, which is why I clarified.

Hope they sort something, I did notice the comment as he announced he was leaving, but let it ride, it's for the "suits" to sort out, if they can.
Wires record breaking 10 match run: L 16-17 ; L 34-36 ; L 24-44 ; L 20-38 ; L 8-46; L 14-26 ; L 20-40 ; L 22-48 ; L 14-20 ; L 8-60. Thanks Jimmy.The Glamour Club. Apparently.
Captain Morgan Trophy Holders.(I still think we have the British Coal 9's trophy hidden somewhere, too...)
Ooooh, the Challenge Cup!!! Thank you Tony.....
And again!!!Posted Image
Tipping Competiton Challenged Shield Winner 2010

#8 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Aug 27 2010, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Damned sad situation.

David Hughes is a real hero for taking responsibility for all the club's debt. But the only thing that can save the club is a wealthy investor who is willing to create a professional marketing deparment and find a way out of the club's media blackout.

I have always felt that a Murdoch investment would be a good thing (News Ltd has owned majority shareholding in three clubs in the NRL --- Brisbane Broncos, North Queensland Cowboys, and Melbourne Storm --- and now look like going down to one, the highly profitable Broncos). If that happened then they would be motivated to get their London based newspapers (The Sun and The Times) to cover and maybe even to promote the London club.

How you get all of the Murdoch family, or at least one of them, to do that is another matter.

The other alternative is to try and find a Russian investor. They have money to burn.



How the hell has Murdoch and News Ltd been good thing in Australia? It started the SL wars which cost us thousands of fans and is still felt today! It likely cost the game millions of dollars. Clubs like Balmain, Norths etc were forced to Merge. Souths were kicked out. The game was in a real mess thanks to News Ltd.
Then we have Gallop who has been a poor admin for the game and is just a puppet for News Ltd. Low TV Contracts, failure to do too much too stop players going elsewhere, His head in the sand attitude has cost us money and fans.
News Ltd promotes AFL over League for some reason despite League having way better TV attendances as well.
News Ltd made a real mess of running Melbourne Storm. It has made the game a laughing stock. And how can News Ltd be running the NRL and yet not know what was going on at the Storm which is also owned by the News Ltd? Gallop and News made a mess of the outcome of the storm. Honestly any team would be best staying away from News Ltd looking at the record of being involved in the game in Australia.

Sad for the few fans but maybe long term a good thing. Quins has been a disaster from the start that few Broncos fans bought in to. It has alienated many London fans. Maybe it will allow the club to reform in a way RL fans can identify with and the new club can be more of a London Community club than it is now

#9 paley

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:25 PM

QUOTE (Lounge Room Lizard @ Aug 27 2010, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How the hell has Murdoch and News Ltd been good thing in Australia? It started the SL wars which cost us thousands of fans and is still felt today! It likely cost the game millions of dollars. Clubs like Balmain, Norths etc were forced to Merge. Souths were kicked out. The game was in a real mess thanks to News Ltd.
Then we have Gallop who has been a poor admin for the game and is just a puppet for News Ltd. Low TV Contracts, failure to do too much too stop players going elsewhere, His head in the sand attitude has cost us money and fans.
News Ltd promotes AFL over League for some reason despite League having way better TV attendances as well.
News Ltd made a real mess of running Melbourne Storm. It has made the game a laughing stock. And how can News Ltd be running the NRL and yet not know what was going on at the Storm which is also owned by the News Ltd? Gallop and News made a mess of the outcome of the storm. Honestly any team would be best staying away from News Ltd looking at the record of being involved in the game in Australia.

Sad for the few fans but maybe long term a good thing. Quins has been a disaster from the start that few Broncos fans bought in to. It has alienated many London fans. Maybe it will allow the club to reform in a way RL fans can identify with and the new club can be more of a London Community club than it is now


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#10 tonyXIII

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 08:30 AM

QUOTE (Northern Sol @ Aug 28 2010, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
According to some folk, Bronquins are of such massive value to Sky that they would have little interest in a SL without them. This being the case, surely they have nothing to worry because Uncle Rupert will be getting his wallet out.

Unfortunately I don't share this view.


I don't want News anywhere near us. I agree with LRL and Paley. Sky = BAD.

I am coming round to the view that I'd rather be poor but honest without that lot than treated like their rent boy.

edited for a typo.

Edited by tonyXIII, 28 August 2010 - 08:37 AM.

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#11 Spicer

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 08:31 AM

I dare say there will be a fair number rubbing there hands together with glee at the thought of
Quins folding. Yes it does not look good the fact that with one game to go we have not heard of any
season ticket renewal packages and made any announcements regarding signing up players for next year.
That said at the fans forum a few months back David Hughes seemed very upbeat about
the future prospect of a franchise.

We shall have to see what happens but whether its good or bad news for us Quins fans I doubt
there will be any criticism of the Chairman and rightly so.


#12 Bleep1673

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 09:03 AM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Aug 27 2010, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I meant to say hopefully it will be a move and not for instance the end of London RL.

London RL will not die. RL in London has been around for longer than Fulham RL/London Crusaders/Broncos/Harlequins RL. There is, and has been since the 1960's a thriving amatuer RL in London and the Home counties, when I played for Ealing we had to play games as far apart as Swindon, Felixstowe, Cambridge, and Bognor Regis, but the game is alive and doing well in the capital. And lets not forget the great work Hector McNeil is doing/has done at the London Skolars, and all the conference clubs in the South East, Hemel etc.

Part of the problem London Superleague has is that most grounds are either expensive to use, or innaccesable to the average fan, I have mentioned elsewhere about the travelling times to get to grounds that they have used, one of the other factors is that they never stay put long enough. Fans in Charlton & SE London might have started to enjoy RL, but the move to Brentford lost them, the same with North London fans when they played at Barnet Copthall, or Crystal Palace. Get your A-Z of London out and estimate how long it would take to travel between these sites. Try www.tfl.gov.uk and enter the details in Travel Planner. The route changes, parking restrictions, track works etc., soon put people off.

There IS a usable stadium in Wembley, actually, near Wembley. Wasps Ground.
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#13 skep155

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 10:24 AM

I don't think it's over yet, I personally think they'll attempt one more move before they pack it all in. The season tickets packages not being announced and players not being signed just could be down to not knowing where they are playing next year, no point signing players on the promise of playing in Twickenham if you might be moving to another part of London or out of London all together. I think if there's one certainty, it's that they aren't going to continue under the Harlequins RL moniker for much longer.

Edited by skep155, 28 August 2010 - 10:25 AM.


#14 Chronicler of Chiswick

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 11:16 AM

With Widnes now being properly run for about the first time in living memory, would the powers that be be deeply upset if Quins folded at the end of this season?

#15 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 11:51 AM

QUOTE (Chronicler of Chiswick @ Aug 28 2010, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With Widnes now being properly run for about the first time in living memory, would the powers that be be deeply upset if Quins folded at the end of this season?


I'm sure they would as would the majority of Rugby League.

Admitting defeat with a London RL club would have bad consequences for the game I think.

#16 The 4 of Us

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:06 PM

QUOTE (Bleep1673 @ Aug 28 2010, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Part of the problem London Superleague has is that most grounds are either expensive to use, or innaccesable to the average fan, I have mentioned elsewhere about the travelling times to get to grounds that they have used, one of the other factors is that they never stay put long enough. Fans in Charlton & SE London might have started to enjoy RL, but the move to Brentford lost them, the same with North London fans when they played at Barnet Copthall, or Crystal Palace. Get your A-Z of London out and estimate how long it would take to travel between these sites. Try www.tfl.gov.uk and enter the details in Travel Planner. The route changes, parking restrictions, track works etc., soon put people off.

There IS a usable stadium in Wembley, actually, near Wembley. Wasps Ground.


Yesterday my son and I travelled to the Skolars match in North London from a day out at Hampton Court. A bus to Kingston, train to Wimbledon and tube to Wood Green ( before the well received free Skolars bus) took the best part of 2 hours.

It's a big place to cover and fans up north would have a better time
of it if their team transferred to Birmingham.

Having said that subject to a bit of investment in the ground Superleague could do worse than look at Skolars.

Only a few tune stops from Kings Cross which means it's accessible from the NW or NE just as easily.

There was a good feeling about the crowd with plenty of Larndan League Fans in attendance. The place itself has much more of a buzz than the leafy suburbs of Twickenham and is definitely more league territory.

I think there should be a South London team to carry on the development work and there would be no reason why one of the more organised amateur clubs should not be invited to step up to the mark to allow a Superleague club to carry on in North London.


#17 boxhead

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:10 PM

Its a lost cause, if this year is the sum result of 20 years of trying it speaks for itself.
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#18 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE (AndyCapp @ Aug 28 2010, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Its a lost cause, if this year is the sum result of 20 years of trying it speaks for itself.
Done badly by all and sundry.


I don't think it's a lost cause by any means. I think Quins is however.

Many of their incarnations have had their problems. For instance the first few were not long term enough, so despite high initial crowds they pulled out too quickly. I have a Rothmans were Fulham's average in the second division is higher than the first division average.

Since Super League began they have had the problem of being seen as a foreign outpost of Northern and Australian centric RL. They often fielded teams of exclusively Australian players with little youth development or amateur clubs to underpin it. This with the constant moving meant they had no identity of their own.

Recently they have been getting things right in certain areas. They are a representation of London RL now and have a good number of locally produced players, some of who have played for England. However they are trapped by the Quins thing.

I think they should move again, I don't know where but it needs to be an independent club that they can market independently. I don't think they should have a silly moniker like the Bronco's either but be known simply as London Rugby League.

Edited by Maximus Decimus, 28 August 2010 - 12:22 PM.


#19 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:31 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u..._medium=twitter

Further news.



#20 The Parksider

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (Spicer @ Aug 28 2010, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I dare say there will be a fair number rubbing there hands together with glee at the thought of
Quins folding. Yes it does not look good the fact that with one game to go we have not heard of any
season ticket renewal packages and made any announcements regarding signing up players for next year.
That said at the fans forum a few months back David Hughes seemed very upbeat about
the future prospect of a franchise.

We shall have to see what happens but whether its good or bad news for us Quins fans I doubt
there will be any criticism of the Chairman and rightly so.


Yes we will have to see what happens and it will be very interesting what does exactly happen and a few answers to questions we have only been able to guess at may surface.

If there's nobody with significant money wanting to invest in RL or be part of Superleague outside the north it won't be a good situation for the game. It will be immensly sad to see some fans as you say being gleeful about this.

Quins apart, the bottom line fact seems to be that the flagship of the game in it's new era post 1996, is not attractive enough to enough business type people willing to part with money (modest amounts compared with soccer and RU to a point) to be a part of it.

A lack of "top up investors" isn't just a Quins thing, and those "rubbing their hands together" may just consider that Quins problems are simply a reflection of problems in the professional game as a whole...





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