39 replies to this topic

[HappyDave]

I think the loss of GI from the Aussie squad is good news for England.

I'd say there are a fair number of quality Backs in SL the likes of Eastmond, Briers, Longy, S Tomkins, McGuire, Myler, Hall, Atkins, Lomax, T Briscoe, Senior, Thomas, Bosc, etc.

Will the Aussie selectors forget about (snub?) Jamie Soward in the way the NSW selectors did?

[Hannibal]

Someone has to counter the ignorant ###### on here.

I presume you are putting yourself up for that job then?

To be honest, I don't think you have the correct skill set.

Application denied.

[CGD]

Will the Aussie selectors forget about (snub?) Jamie Soward in the way the NSW selectors did?

Hopefully.

[scotthouston2008]

If you think there's so much 'ignorant ######' on this site why do you keep reading it? It's all a matter of opinions - you have yours, I have mine. The difference is you feel the need to make personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with you. And talking about NSW halfbacks have very little to do with 'culture and identity'.

Firstly I have been watching the 4 or 5 NRL matches shown here every week this season. So I hope you agree I'm entitled to an opinion. My comment on the lack of decent halves in NSW was referring to the Origin series which NSW lost for the 5th year in a row. Todd Carney is very good - I never said he wasn't - but why wasn't he picked for the Origins? Did you call the NSW selectors and accuse them of being ignorant because they didn't pick him? As for whether he's better than any half in SL - better than some, but it's very hard to tell.

Someone else mentioned Jarryd Hayne - he's better at full back, and his form this season has been patchy at best. I still think Jamie Lyon played better in the centres, and Mitchell Pearce is not the finished article yet. There's always Jamie Soward, but I wouldn't rate him in the same class as Lockyer or Thurston. NSW also used Kimmorley and Barrett - I assume you're not suggesting they should be picked for Australia.

So ECT, if Lockyer and Thurston are missing, who would you pick in the halves for Australia?

i agree with you 100% that hayne is better at fb but nobody is going to displace billy slater!
i'd prefer to have him in at 6 IF lockyer isn't fit than on a wing where his chance to affect the game is limited.
He has been patchy but on his day he's the worlds best and you have to take risks!

[thirteenthman]

i agree with you 100% that hayne is better at fb but nobody is going to displace billy slater!
i'd prefer to have him in at 6 IF lockyer isn't fit than on a wing where his chance to affect the game is limited.
He has been patchy but on his day he's the worlds best and you have to take risks!

You're right about Slater. I thought Parramatta tried Hayne at no6 last year but moved him back to full back. I don't think he's ever actually pulled off a big performance when it really matters. I suppose his test form could be excused by him being out of position, but until he can produce the goods consistently I wouldn't rate him world class. Also, I didn't think much of his comment about how much test players are paid.

To be fair Hayne wouldn't be the first Aussie player to miss out on Test selection just because there's someone even better than him in the side. For me you should play a recognised stand off in that position.

[thirteenthman]

Hopefully.

Jamie Soward reminds me of someone like Paul Deacon. A competent player who probably looks better for playing in a strong side. If the NSW selectors don't rate him, I don't think he'll be in the 4 Nations squad.

Edited by thirteenthman, 02 September 2010 - 10:21 AM.

[scotthouston2008]

Tbh mate i didnt see any NRL last season with it not being televised so i cannot pass comment just from what i've seen this year i think he's shown glimpses of being a very good half back but your right in saying he isnt consistent. i beleive this is down to his age (22!!!) and players tend to get consistency with age and experience.
i orginally earmarked hayne for the oz No6 spot in a few years when lockyer has gone, as slater is still going to be around for a fair few more years but i just thought with having lockyer injured its the perfect time to give him a shot??? if not todd carney has been terrific when i've seen him.
would also like to see jamal idris and dave taylor given a shot but that won't be for a few years i wouldnt imagine.

[AndyCapp]

You're right about Slater. I thought Parramatta tried Hayne at no6 last year but moved him back to full back. I don't think he's ever actually pulled off a big performance when it really matters. I suppose his test form could be excused by him being out of position, but until he can produce the goods consistently I wouldn't rate him world class. Also, I didn't think much of his comment about how much test players are paid.

To be fair Hayne wouldn't be the first Aussie player to miss out on Test selection just because there's someone even better than him in the side. For me you should play a recognised stand off in that position.

You obviously missed the parts where he tore up 1/2 a dozen teams nearly on his own last year in Parramattas run to and through the finals to make the Grand Final or the games where he has been the best player on the field several times in SOO in a losing side.
One of the standout players of the 2008 World Cup where he set Fiji up as the best of the small PI Nations with his brilliance
Maybe last years 4 nations final where he scored a try, set up a try and had a flip kick over his head that led to the ball over the try line but was disallowed?
Hayne can be hot and cold but on his day he can win a game by himself like no other player in recent times.

Dally M player of the year not "World Class" that will do me.

Edited by AndyCapp, 02 September 2010 - 10:40 AM.

[thirteenthman]

Tbh mate i didnt see any NRL last season with it not being televised so i cannot pass comment just from what i've seen this year i think he's shown glimpses of being a very good half back but your right in saying he isnt consistent. i beleive this is down to his age (22!!!) and players tend to get consistency with age and experience.
i orginally earmarked hayne for the oz No6 spot in a few years when lockyer has gone, as slater is still going to be around for a fair few more years but i just thought with having lockyer injured its the perfect time to give him a shot??? if not todd carney has been terrific when i've seen him.
would also like to see jamal idris and dave taylor given a shot but that won't be for a few years i wouldnt imagine.

Todd Carney has been playing really well but I'm not sure whether his past indescretions might count against him. He's another that got overlooked for NSW selection. I'd agree on Dave Taylor - Jamal idris might be a bit young yet and the Aussies have got some decent centres to pick from.

[thirteenthman]

You obviously missed the parts where he tore up 1/2 a dozen teams nearly on his own last year in Parramattas run to and through the finals to make the Grand Final or the games where he has been the best player on the field several times in SOO in a losing side.
One of the standout players of the 2008 World Cup where he set Fiji up as the best of the small PI Nations with his brilliance
Maybe last years 4 nations final where he scored a try, set up a try and had a flip kick over his head that led to the ball over the try line but was disallowed?
Hayne can be hot and cold but on his day he can win a game by himself like no other player in recent times.

Dally M player of the year not "World Class" that will do me.

I can see where you're coming from, but his form this year has been very patchy. He needs to be more consistent for mine. On his day he is brilliant, but world class players like Lockyer are much more consistent.

[scotthouston2008]

suppose they could but if he has a good finals series and a run to the gf, possibly a win he could be un-pickable??

i agree actually with idris a bit dodgy still at times, i love dave taylor though! he has everything! size, speed, great hands! better than tupou, watmough or gallen though for a start?

[AndyCapp]

I can see where you're coming from, but his form this year has been very patchy. He needs to be more consistent for mine. On his day he is brilliant, but world class players like Lockyer are much more consistent.

He is in a team that turns to him to do it all on his own.
Put him in a team like the Dragons or the Storm or NSW and he would be able to chime in and deliver.

[CGD]

Hayne is simply a "victim" of being a player playing in the most hotly contested position in the NRL. Established rep players playing important positions aren't unseated very easily. It took two whole series worth of Origins before Hayne even got a shot at fullback (while, for the grand majority of the time, he dominated from the wing of all positions). For Australia, he's stuck behind Billy Slater. And AndyCapp is right, take a look at Hayne's game in the Four Nations Final again. He ripped up.

Anyway, it's the same predicament Josh Dugan and Lachlan Coote will soon (if they're not already) find themselves in. Those two were just about the two best players on the pitch in their debut rep match, playing opposite eachother. Indeed, Dugan was officially Man of the Match in that City/Country game. While Coote's size will count against him in earning rep caps, Dugan will be squeezed into Origin and Tests, somewhere, sooner rather than later. In my honest opinion, I believe Dugan is in the top 3 fullbacks in the game, with Slater and Hayne. It's arguable that he is a better fullback than Hayne. Hayne is easily the better athlete of the three, but as a specialist fullback, his ranking is questionable. Like already suggested, Hayne is still too inconsistent. Yes, even in his "quiet" games, his stats often impress, but he can struggle to star when he's not the absolute focal point of an attack. You can forget just how young he still is, so there's no reason to doubt that he'll improve his game in years to come. Slater just has just been such an executioner of opposite rep teams over the years to not name him as no.1 fullback in the game.

Last year, after making his debut, Dugan ended up playing 16 games. When you look at averages in stats, he was the leading metre gainer, leading kick-returner and i'm pretty sure he was the out and out leader for tackle breaks for 2009, as in game average and total for the year. This year he has been in first-grade since Round 1. He is currently third in metre gaining, behind Gallen and Hayne. He is second in kick-return metres, behind Coote. He is again first in tackle breaks, by a long way. He is fourth in line-breaks, and first in linebreaks from kick-returns. He turned 20 in May. He WILL play for NSW and Australia.

As for Carney and not being picked for Origin. By Origin 1, he had played 9 NRL games in the previous 1.5 years, and up to that point, had been playing fullback for the Roosters. It's not hard to see how he missed out on his NSW debut this year. While I also don't really like players playing for Australia before making it through the Origin furnace, I definitely believe Carney can be a successful Test player. For a 5/8, he's big and strong, has good pace and good footwork. Physically, he'll do just fine. It's plain to see that his skills are worthy of a Test jersey, it's just a matter of when, and if he can handle the responsibility mentally. If worst comes to worst and we're hit with injury to the halves as mentioned, there's no real harm in trying Carney, is there? It's not like he'll have to do it all himself, with Cronk or Prince inside him.

[AndyCapp]

Hayne is simply a "victim" of being a player playing in the most hotly contested position in the NRL. Established rep players playing important positions aren't unseated very easily. It took two whole series worth of Origins before Hayne even got a shot at fullback (while, for the grand majority of the time, he dominated from the wing of all positions). For Australia, he's stuck behind Billy Slater. And AndyCapp is right, take a look at Hayne's game in the Four Nations Final again. He ripped up.

Anyway, it's the same predicament Josh Dugan and Lachlan Coote will soon (if they're not already) find themselves in. Those two were just about the two best players on the pitch in their debut rep match, playing opposite eachother. Indeed, Dugan was officially Man of the Match in that City/Country game. While Coote's size will count against him in earning rep caps, Dugan will be squeezed into Origin and Tests, somewhere, sooner rather than later. In my honest opinion, I believe Dugan is in the top 3 fullbacks in the game, with Slater and Hayne. It's arguable that he is a better fullback than Hayne. Hayne is easily the better athlete of the three, but as a specialist fullback, his ranking is questionable. Like already suggested, Hayne is still too inconsistent. Yes, even in his "quiet" games, his stats often impress, but he can struggle to star when he's not the absolute focal point of an attack. You can forget just how young he still is, so there's no reason to doubt that he'll improve his game in years to come. Slater just has just been such an executioner of opposite rep teams over the years to not name him as no.1 fullback in the game.

Last year, after making his debut, Dugan ended up playing 16 games. When you look at averages in stats, he was the leading metre gainer, leading kick-returner and i'm pretty sure he was the out and out leader for tackle breaks for 2009, as in game average and total for the year. This year he has been in first-grade since Round 1. He is currently third in metre gaining, behind Gallen and Hayne. He is second in kick-return metres, behind Coote. He is again first in tackle breaks, by a long way. He is fourth in line-breaks, and first in linebreaks from kick-returns. He turned 20 in May. He WILL play for NSW and Australia.

As for Carney and not being picked for Origin. By Origin 1, he had played 9 NRL games in the previous 1.5 years, and up to that point, had been playing fullback for the Roosters. It's not hard to see how he missed out on his NSW debut this year. While I also don't really like players playing for Australia before making it through the Origin furnace, I definitely believe Carney can be a successful Test player. For a 5/8, he's big and strong, has good pace and good footwork. Physically, he'll do just fine. It's plain to see that his skills are worthy of a Test jersey, it's just a matter of when, and if he can handle the responsibility mentally. If worst comes to worst and we're hit with injury to the halves as mentioned, there's no real harm in trying Carney, is there? It's not like he'll have to do it all himself, with Cronk or Prince inside him.

Pretty good Summary.
The games where Hayne is on fire is what makes this game what it is, I can not remember many players that have done what he has in games.
Ellery Hanley has dominated games
Jason Robinson has been hard to tackle
Eric Grothe Senior ran over people (he brought the crowd to their feet in his prime)
Brett Kenny with a sidestep, bodyswerve and pace of a sprinter off the mark.

Hayne if he sorts his head out and is played right can do all of the above better.

[jackknife]

Jamal idris might be a bit young yet and the Aussies have got some decent centres to pick from.

id personally play big jamal idris in 2nd row as the bulldogs have started playing him there and im sure this will be his position from now on. he is a big hitting, strong running huge player that i think will start to settle in at 2nd row and like you said oz have some top centres that a far better than him IMO

[petero]

Joking aside, one man (even Lockyer, never mind Inglis) doesn't make a team. The Aussies will still be too strong for us, I fear. Also, if I allow myself to dream, I'd rather beat a full-strength Aussie team than a weakened one.

Inglis will be a bigger loss than Lockyer, think back twelve months?

The rest of what you say is spot on, because if we did win it would be billed as the reson why we did and because we were the obviously better team.
PS
I have a bit of a leaning towards the Kiwi's anyway, Oz at full strength or not.

[petero]

Someone has to counter the ignorant ###### on here. The mods certainly don't do it. Just look at some of the suggestions people are making on here. It's clear no one is even watching the NRL. It's little wonder people on here struggle to comprehend matters of culture and identity when they don't even know what's going on in RL.

Now you are tarring with the same....................whatever too.

I watch ALL of the NRL and I totally agree with you mainly, that is apart from you stating that NSW had no Halves, they do and did not pick them!

Greg Bird would have done a job for them and would also in the 4 Nations for OZ . Jamie Soward is playing out of his skin for St George and the lad was up for the selection he never got. Is Scott Prince a NSWman ? I cannot remember and if Kimmorley deserved his demotion following SOO1 then surely others should also have been shown the door as well.

[Optimus]

Soward is class and I'd have no hesitation in picking him. Prince also.

As for Centre, Lyon, Gasnier, Jennings, Tahu, take your pick.

Is Folau going straight to AFL or is he up for selection?

[thirteenthman]

Soward is class and I'd have no hesitation in picking him. Prince also.

As for Centre, Lyon, Gasnier, Jennings, Tahu, take your pick.

Is Folau going straight to AFL or is he up for selection?

I think it's a bit too soon to be picking Mark Gasnier. I'm not sure if he's back up to speed yet.

As for Israel Folau, well he put himself out of the running for Australia as soon as he signed with the AFL. It didn't stop him from claiming that he wanted to play for Tonga in their game against Samoa in October. He was quoted as saying he wanted to represent Tonga before he left, saying it was his heritage. Of course in AFL he won't be able to represent any country.

[scotthouston2008]

jennings has been class when i've seen him this year!