122 replies to this topic

[tonyXIII]

I think its the fact that they are overrated and overhyped, thats now eight games and only two wins this season from matches against Saints, Wigan and Leeds - likely that two of those will have to be beaten in a row to win the title.

You're right, they have failed against the big guns.

I still think they are a hell of a lot better than the Wire of two years ago.

[Allan Marsden]

Bad coaching and extreme naivety by Wire. 8 point lead, tearing Saints apart. Awful conditions. Instead of settling for the early lead and building pressure they decide they are the harlem globetrotters and throw possession away (Carvell as per usual a serial offender) to the point Saints had all the ball and played a very astute tactical game cutting Wire up down the middle. Potter out coached Smith whose substitutions were bizarre and even selections questionable. Monaghan should have started at 9 and in those conditions Wire played off him unless on the opp line. Briers lost the plot. Graham outplayed the Wire front rowers and Morley went missing even when on the pitch. Captain of GB I hope not. Wire were rudderless. Fully deserved Saints win. Matty Smith did very well.

Tonight showed the farce of the play offs though. Every season a summer competition becomes a wet weather knockout competition. Crazy.

Tonight saw a referee commit an awful mistake that deserved for him to be dropped. Silverwood did not go to the video referee when Foster clearly tackled Riley mid air for Saints to score. Referee and TJ should be demoted.

[goldcard]

You haven't - a lot of others (including non-Wire fans) have.

Ta.
I know, and it bugs me to a degree.
If we throw that monkey away, I might just believe more too.
The cup wins have depended on other teams dealing with Skints, Old Trafford probably won't.
If game 3 for us happens, and is there, then that monkey will take real shifting.
Especially after tonight.
However, as a Wires fan of 40 yrs, to be back to back cup winners, and be discussing a grand final shot is way beyond what I'm used to.
This time of year is "rebuilding for the future" usually, with the players in Benidorm.
We just got outplayed, but it's still good to be a Wire.

[Exiled Wiganer]

It wasn't even close against a Saints team lacking vital players. My suspicion is that Wire rely so much on 2 old players that to expect them to lift themselves with any regularity is too much. The Cup win is bound to have a huge effect on any team, given its massive significance. Despite a week off, Morley was nowhere to be seen tonight. Not MoS form by any means. Myler looks more like Denis Moran with every week that goes by.
It would be a huge effort for the Wire to win from here, but that shouldn't cloud a fabulous season - 3rd in the league and Cup winners again (and beating Leeds and the Giants and Bradford before they were hopeless looks pretty impressive to me). Indeed, if you include the Cheltenham 9s and the Captain Morgan trophy they have their treble as predicted.

[goldcard]

It wasn't even close against a Saints team lacking vital players. My suspicion is that Wire rely so much on 2 old players that to expect them to lift themselves with any regularity is too much. The Cup win is bound to have a huge effect on any team, given its massive significance. Despite a week off, Morley was nowhere to be seen tonight. Not MoS form by any means. Myler looks more like Denis Moran with every week that goes by.
It would be a huge effort for the Wire to win from here, but that shouldn't cloud a fabulous season - 3rd in the league and Cup winners again (and beating Leeds and the Giants and Bradford before they were hopeless looks pretty impressive to me). Indeed, if you include the Cheltenham 9s and the Captain Morgan trophy they have their treble as predicted.

Our British Coal 9's was won at Wigan, vs The Rest of the World, if memory serves.
And how's my dvd of the league match doing?

[3owls]

As a neutral there was only one team winning that game once st helens got their noses in front. Well done saints, see you at old trafford again.

[The 4 of Us]

Personally I think Warrington need more yellow in their kit. Around the belly.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Our British Coal 9's was won at Wigan, vs The Rest of the World, if memory serves.
And how's my dvd of the league match doing?

It's in a job lot with the HKR and Bradford games. Your patience will be rewarded.

[goldcard]

It's in a job lot with the HKR and Bradford games. Your patience will be rewarded.

Cheers, btw, don't suppose you got the cup final too?
Mick DID promise me a copy the day after following my vhs feck up, but of course he's fallen foul of the mods and spat his dummy etc...

[goldcard]

Personally I think Warrington need more yellow in their kit. Around the belly.

I suspect the "safety net" of next week stopped guys playing 100% once it was obvious what the result would be.
However, If you want to inform Ade Morley he needs more yellow on his kit due to his performance, fine.
Let me know when you're doing it, so I can get your final moments up on YouTube.

[bewareshadows]

Have the RFL set a dangerous standard with allowing elbows in the tackle by the player with the ball. We had Bailey doing last week and given the ok by the RFL, tonight we see Clarke do the same, can't blame the fella as the RFL said it's ok. But how long until it becomes the standard, a bit like rucking a player with the studs in Rugby Union. Not something I really want to see in the game but the RL have set the standard.

[Lee]

I think tonights performance justifies my view that the CC final flattered Warrington - clearly not as good a side as all the hype on tonights evidence.

Where is tweedle dum and tweedle dee tonight ?

2 cup competition wins does not make a great side, did someone say 2 outta 8 against the big boys this year, that says it all.

Im not quoteing it but Goldcard, how the hell can you have too good a start

[petero]

Bad coaching and extreme naivety by Wire. 8 point lead, tearing Saints apart. Awful conditions. Instead of settling for the early lead and building pressure they decide they are the harlem globetrotters and throw possession away (Carvell as per usual a serial offender) to the point Saints had all the ball and played a very astute tactical game cutting Wire up down the middle. Potter out coached Smith whose substitutions were bizarre and even selections questionable. Monaghan should have started at 9 and in those conditions Wire played off him unless on the opp line. Briers lost the plot. Graham outplayed the Wire front rowers and Morley went missing even when on the pitch. Captain of GB I hope not. Wire were rudderless. Fully deserved Saints win. Matty Smith did very well.

Tonight showed the farce of the play offs though. Every season a summer competition becomes a wet weather knockout competition. Crazy.

Tonight saw a referee commit an awful mistake that deserved for him to be dropped. Silverwood did not go to the video referee when Foster clearly tackled Riley mid air for Saints to score. Referee and TJ should be demoted.

Don't find any agreement with your second paragraph and cannot understand your meaning really?

However the rest is pretty accurate. I would add also the non-try that was awarded to Wellens take those two scores away and even though Warrington played poorly, the first ten minutes apart, the game was a much closer affair than the actual score suggests.

My son made a very interesting comment on the skills of Mick Potter as a coach, something I myself had not considered previously but with which I found it difficult to argue.

He stated that he believed that Potter had proven himself to be possibly the BEST! Coach in S/L.
Simply because of the manipulation he has acheived with his squad, faced with the dilemma of losing so many key positional and influential players throughout the season, he has managed to gain the second place in the league and tonight has again proved masterful with his inclusion of Matty Smith, at such short notice.
His use of substitutes during the game was exemplary.

On reflection I could find little to argue with over that statement and reflecting back also to his days at Catalans I would imagine that Bradford who have seemingly been astute in their choice of coach for next season, must be feeling quite pleased with themselves.

[3owls]

Have the RFL set a dangerous standard with allowing elbows in the tackle by the player with the ball. We had Bailey doing last week and given the ok by the RFL, tonight we see Clarke do the same, can't blame the fella as the RFL said it's ok. But how long until it becomes the standard, a bit like rucking a player with the studs in Rugby Union. Not something I really want to see in the game but the RL have set the standard.

I think the RFL set the standard when cunningham smashed the cas players jaw last season in "attempting" to free himself from the tackle.

[Wendall]

Let me add my two pence before reading any of the 'critics' on here!

I thought tonight Saints bossed the match apart from the early Wire onslaught. But Wire were a big dissapointment and we didnt really want it as much as Saints tonight, I feel we had one eye on the next few weeks after the heroics of Wembley. Ok it must be hard for Wire to take but tonight we were second best, all credit to a weak Saints outfit for playing as a team and we will need a massive effort and step up in class to beat Saints in 2 weeks at the final game at the GPW (today).

[Lee]

Have the RFL set a dangerous standard with allowing elbows in the tackle by the player with the ball. We had Bailey doing last week and given the ok by the RFL, tonight we see Clarke do the same, can't blame the fella as the RFL said it's ok. But how long until it becomes the standard, a bit like rucking a player with the studs in Rugby Union. Not something I really want to see in the game but the RL have set the standard.

My only surprise is there isnt a 7 page thread on Jon Clarke yet

[3owls]

My only surprise is there isnt a 7 page thread on Jon Clarke yet

Not until he transfers to leeds.

[Lee]

I feel we had one eye on the next few weeks after the heroics of Wembley.

Superb, your looking at the GF already

Psst, you gotta get there 1st

[Allan Marsden]

Don't find any agreement with your second paragraph and cannot understand your meaning really?

However the rest is pretty accurate. I would add also the non-try that was awarded to Wellens take those two scores away and even though Warrington played poorly, the first ten minutes apart, the game was a much closer affair than the actual score suggests.

My son made a very interesting comment on the skills of Mick Potter as a coach, something I myself had not considered previously but with which I found it difficult to argue.

He stated that he believed that Potter had proven himself to be possibly the BEST! Coach in S/L.
Simply because of the manipulation he has acheived with his squad, faced with the dilemma of losing so many key positional and influential players throughout the season, he has managed to gain the second place in the league and tonight has again proved masterful with his inclusion of Matty Smith, at such short notice.
His use of substitutes during the game was exemplary.

On reflection I could find little to argue with over that statement and reflecting back also to his days at Catalans I would imagine that Bradford who have seemingly been astute in their choice of coach for next season, must be feeling quite pleased with themselves.

First and foremost I believe in a League system. The Play offs should be the old Premiership. However, this is the absurdity. The play offs are played every year in miserable wet conditions and the GF is normally a wet weather contest. Yet we call ourselves a summer sport (yes I know it rains during the summer) but we have a full season of games wet / dry hot / cold conditions to identify the best team in SL but instead we create a marketing gimmick that is made even less worthy by being nothing more than a very wet weather lottery. Conditions that produce poorer RL and include a greater element of luck in determining an outcome. Only in RL could you create such a crazy scenario.

Wellens try was a fair try. The score did not show the gulf. For 10 minutes Wire were different class. Thereafter they were awful and Saints played astute professional RL. In some respects it was a sad indicement of how poor players game management skills are in the U.K. Briers and Morley should be able to see what is happening and guide the team accordingly. Instead Briers in particular become progressively clueless and a problem rather than a solution.

I really enjoy the Brian / Tony Smith RL philosophy, it is high risk, exciting but in those conditions having taken a big early lead you have to adapt and play smart.

[Allan Marsden]

Let me add my two pence before reading any of the 'critics' on here!

I thought tonight Saints bossed the match apart from the early Wire onslaught. But Wire were a big dissapointment and we didnt really want it as much as Saints tonight, I feel we had one eye on the next few weeks after the heroics of Wembley. Ok it must be hard for Wire to take but tonight we were second best, all credit to a weak Saints outfit for playing as a team and we will need a massive effort and step up in class to beat Saints in 2 weeks at the final game at the GPW (today).

It wasn't a question of want / effort rather brains Wendall.

Saints were A* whereas Wire were Unclassified requiring special needs. Wire were dumb so much so it beggars belief. Even the coach needs to stand in the corner with the Dumb hat on. Saints out coached and out thought Wire. The biggest case of RL naivety you are likely to come across and one coaching courses can use for decades.