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Can Rugby League afford another Leeds v Saints Grand Final?


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52 replies to this topic

#41 Wendall

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Sep 20 2010, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wendell does have a point but it's hardly a make or break situation.

I want anybody except for Saints-Leeds, it's been done to death. I've no problem with Leeds winning it again just not at Saints expense. I'd rather Huddersfield made it.

Super League GF crowds rose year on year but have dropped by nearly 10k after the last Saints-Leeds GF. There's much less interest as a neutral and I'm talking from personal experience.


I wanna see a full house at OT, and I believe another Saints v Leeds clash may struggle to hit 60K. The GF we need is Saints v Wigan in 2010.



#42 dkw

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:19 PM

QUOTE (Wendall @ Sep 20 2010, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wanna see a full house at OT, and I believe another Saints v Leeds clash may struggle to hit 60K. The GF we need is Saints v Wigan in 2010.

What is your reasoning behind that.

Edited by dkw, 20 September 2010 - 07:20 PM.


#43 Bulletproof

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:29 PM

Better those two teams make the final than wire. If we're being honest things would be absolutely unbearable if they made the final for many.

#44 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE (dkw @ Sep 20 2010, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is your reasoning behind that.


The attendance for the Super League grand final rose year on year from it's inception in 1998 when 43,000 fans turned up to 2006 when it was 72,582. Since then we've had 3 Leeds-Saints games,

2007 Leeds 33- 6 St Helens 71,352
2008 Leeds 24-16 St Helens 68,810
2009 Leeds 18-10 St Helens 63,259.

Everyone can slag Wendall all they like but the facts speak for themselves. I don't think it would be a disaster for RL but it would probably see another lower crowd.

Wigan-Saints would have far more interest and almost guarantee another sellout. Huddersfield would probably see a better attendance than last year too. I honestly think Leeds-Saints puts off many neutrals from attending.

#45 RP London

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 11:17 AM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Sep 20 2010, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The attendance for the Super League grand final rose year on year from it's inception in 1998 when 43,000 fans turned up to 2006 when it was 72,582. Since then we've had 3 Leeds-Saints games,

2007 Leeds 33- 6 St Helens 71,352
2008 Leeds 24-16 St Helens 68,810
2009 Leeds 18-10 St Helens 63,259.

Everyone can slag Wendall all they like but the facts speak for themselves. I don't think it would be a disaster for RL but it would probably see another lower crowd.

Wigan-Saints would have far more interest and almost guarantee another sellout. Huddersfield would probably see a better attendance than last year too. I honestly think Leeds-Saints puts off many neutrals from attending.


also corrolates to a drop in prosperity in the country.. but yes its not a great trend...

#46 HappyDave

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (Wiltshire Rhino @ Sep 20 2010, 07:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
IT'S THE GRAND FINAL!

I will continue to attend. It doesn't matter who's playing, I'll be at Old Trafford every year.


Pre-game drinks mate?

"I've never seen a woman with hairy ears... And I've been to St Helens" - John Bishop

#47 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 01:17 PM

now to ensure its someone other than one of the top 3 sides winning the grand final lets hope for huddersfield v leeds 4th v 5th would be ideal.
of course there may be a few empty seats but what price can you put on history been made .
ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#48 Allan Marsden

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 01:50 PM

There is no evidence that teams monopolising a competition is bad for that sport's spectators. Somebody used Scottish football as an example. I daresay ever Scottish club is thankful for the economic benefits Rangers and Celtics bring just as Spanish football clubs are similarly glad for Real and Barca. Australia tour after tour destroyed British clubs / won test series after test series but the fans kept coming and asking for more. When Wigan were enjoying the best example of modern day monopolisation the attendances for games v Wigan were invariably the highest or one of the highest for any other club etc. The Eels and the Bulldogs dominated the NSWRL competition in the 1980's but the game grew etc Boxing fans love nothing better than a trilogy of fights. Repeat fights create huge interest.

So on that basis all we have are illogical rantings of the jealous.

The very same fans that said Salary Cap MUST HAVE IT for the Good of the game without considering that even in those so called dark days of evil clubs like Widnes, Halifax, Featherston, Sheffield and even Warrington won competitions whereas in a salary cap franchise era such events become even rarer. So please remember if you are favour of a salary cap / franchising then predictability is part of the price you accept. Maybe many RL fans should have read the small print before letting jealousy and spite rule their heads.

#49 Allan Marsden

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 02:04 PM

Double post

Edited by Allan Marsden, 21 September 2010 - 02:04 PM.


#50 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 06:24 PM

QUOTE (RP London @ Sep 21 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
also corrolates to a drop in prosperity in the country.. but yes its not a great trend...


What about the Challenge Cup?

2007: 84,241
2008: 82,821
2009: 76,560
2010: 85,217

Different line ups every year and not seen anything like the same drop despite 2009 not including 2 of the best supported sides in the league at the time.

#51 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE (RP London @ Sep 21 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
also corrolates to a drop in prosperity in the country.. but yes its not a great trend...


What about the Challenge Cup?

2007: 84,241
2008: 82,821
2009: 76,560
2010: 85,217

Different line ups every year and not seen anything like the same drop despite 2009 not including 2 of the best supported sides in the league at the time.

#52 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE (Allan Marsden @ Sep 21 2010, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is no evidence that teams monopolising a competition is bad for that sport's spectators. Somebody used Scottish football as an example. I daresay ever Scottish club is thankful for the economic benefits Rangers and Celtics bring just as Spanish football clubs are similarly glad for Real and Barca. Australia tour after tour destroyed British clubs / won test series after test series but the fans kept coming and asking for more. When Wigan were enjoying the best example of modern day monopolisation the attendances for games v Wigan were invariably the highest or one of the highest for any other club etc. The Eels and the Bulldogs dominated the NSWRL competition in the 1980's but the game grew etc Boxing fans love nothing better than a trilogy of fights. Repeat fights create huge interest.

So on that basis all we have are illogical rantings of the jealous.

The very same fans that said Salary Cap MUST HAVE IT for the Good of the game without considering that even in those so called dark days of evil clubs like Widnes, Halifax, Featherston, Sheffield and even Warrington won competitions whereas in a salary cap franchise era such events become even rarer. So please remember if you are favour of a salary cap / franchising then predictability is part of the price you accept. Maybe many RL fans should have read the small print before letting jealousy and spite rule their heads.


Are you for real? Once again your facts don't stack up. What is the state of current international RL crowds especially in Australia? When we used to win it they would get 70 odd thousand in Australia for 3 games series. I was there when there was 25k for a one off. This despite the game in Australia being as popular as ever. I'm sure Scottish fans love Celtic and Rangers to the extent that the next best attended club gets 14,000 in comparison to near 60k for those two clubs. Who knows what a bit of success would get them.

Anyway nobody is talking about one team dominating they are talking about repeat finals, totally different things. The facts for this do actually stack up.

What exactly would I be jealous about? I'm a Widnes fan who is just interested in a decent final and I have very little interest in another Saints-Leeds final. The chances of me attending such a final are zero. However if it's Saints-Wigan or Huddersfield are there I might just go because I will be interested.

Your last point is just bizarre. How exactly do you come up with the idea that the salary cap ensures predictability? As ever you cherry pick your stats ignoring the fact that the last time we didn't have a salary cap Wigan dominated and the Premier League without a salary cap is dominated by the same few sides. The fact that Saints are there instead of Wire or Wigan is testament to the salary cap.

#53 RP London

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 07:57 AM

QUOTE (Maximus Decimus @ Sep 21 2010, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What about the Challenge Cup?

2007: 84,241
2008: 82,821
2009: 76,560
2010: 85,217

Different line ups every year and not seen anything like the same drop despite 2009 not including 2 of the best supported sides in the league at the time.


which is an interesting comparison..

every year till this year it was dropping, not by as much granted but still dropping. London is a draw in itself and there is a "weekend" culture around the challenge cup and a much more established culture.

the pick up in 2010 could be seen as a spike with leeds getting there and also perhaps a feeling of "well i havent been for a few years due to being skint" and so going again.

The line ups were different and yet the numbers were dropping so maybe the grand final is a mixture of the economic situation and the two similar teams.

They're not exact same situations as they are different cities and very different for RL as there is distance, romance, history etc in one where as the other is one big bang night.. but perhaps one an learn from the other or we can certainly see where issues are with one compared to the other.. certainly makes for interesting reading in comparison.