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Maurice Lindsay article


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#41 Dave T

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 01:37 PM

QUOTE (Wakefield Ram @ Sep 23 2010, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When Maurice Lindsay left Wigan they were massively in debt. It was over 1m and Phil Clarke has certainly said on Sky the club was close to going bankrupt.

When Maurice Lindsay left the RFL they were massively in debt - the number 2m springs to mind, but I could be wrong. The 2000 World Cup was a financial disaster. It has taken years for the RFL to get back on track financially.

Wasn't Neil Tunicliffe in charge for the 2000 WC?

Was it Lindsay who was in charge when we were taking Tests to Wembley etc?


#42 dkw

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 02:20 PM

QUOTE (Allan Marsden @ Sep 23 2010, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OML laugh.gif Jack Robinson deserves credit for being part of 4 Directors that created a resurgence in RL. Wigan RL led British RL kicking and screaming forwards from the Dark Ages. Unfortunately ML left, Jack Hilton and Tom Rathbone became too old and IIRC Hilton died leaving Robinson on his own and the subject of the Whitbread Stand disaster which NOBODY could have predicted and a bitter deud with Dave Whelan.

Jack Robinson muted a SL (In Open Rugby) long before it ever happened and ML/Wigan actually made RL newsworthy and far far more marketable. Events like the WCC were reborn via Lindsay. Any wealth / the survival of your club probably owes a debt to Lindsay / Wigan. Without Transfer fees paid for by Wigan, St Helens and Widnes would now not exist. Never stopped Saints fans screaming Judas at Connolly though rolleyes.gif

If 1 (ONE) club matters more to the prosperity of RL it is W I G A N

Don't be bitter and resentful, be THANKFUL

So much arrogance in so many words. Its fans like you that make it really hard to like to like a club.

#43 dkw

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 02:22 PM

QUOTE (JohnM @ Sep 23 2010, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are some on here who have an irrational dislikes of the guy because of how he looks, how he talks, etc. There are even some who resent his success.

Nice of you to tell us why we dislike him, without actually having any idea why we do dislike him. Ask any Workington Town fan what they think of him, you might get a little insight into why without deciding on your own why.

#44 JohnM

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 02:39 PM

I didn't ask anyone to like him. I'm not saying he was particularly pleasant, and the he did not make mistakes. I'm sure he felt he was a cut above the directors of some other clubs, too. Really, i just want people to base their opinions of him based on as many facts as are available, not on misrepresentations, like blaming his for thing at say Wigan, long after he had left. Their dislike of him, if real, will be based on what they were told, not necessarily what actually happened. In this particular edition of the Maurice Lindsay story there are already a number of errors.

So he left the RFL with 2 million of debt. What was it before he joined? What would it have been had he not joined? When did he join? When did he leave? What were the RFLs asset? If someone gets one fact wrong, they might have them all wrong.






#45 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:06 PM

"So he left the RFL with 2 million of debt. What was it before he joined? What would it have been had he not joined? When did he join? When did he leave? What were the RFLs asset? If someone gets one fact wrong, they might have them all wrong."

You have the right to your opinion, I have a different opinion. I don't need to list Maurice Lindsay's successes as he does that himself very well. BUT the RFL was not 2m in debt before he joined, it was when he left. Whether anyone else would have done as badly is conjecture. But equally they're not in the paper claiming they revolutionised the game.





#46 JohnM

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:18 PM

It makes no difference how much you dislike him, or why. That is, as you say, your opinion.

What is not in doubt is that he DID revolutionise the game.

Again. No Lindsay, no Sky, no pro game.

Edited by JohnM, 23 September 2010 - 03:19 PM.


#47 Matt J

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:42 PM

QUOTE (JohnM @ Sep 23 2010, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It makes no difference how much you dislike him, or why. That is, as you say, your opinion.

What is not in doubt is that he DID revolutionise the game.

Again. No Lindsay, no Sky, no pro game.


It didnt matter who fell by the wayside, funnily enough, Wigan didn't suffer in the long term.

Just because he was the face of Skys input, doesn't mean he did well, he nearly killed the game at semi-pro level, and screwed multiple teams over.

As an example, Rugby Union wanted to 'revolutionise' their sport, they got the proper people in, the FA wanted to 'revolutionise' the Football League, so formed the Premier League, the RFL get Maurice Lindsay, says it all about the RFL in the 90's, cock-eyed and half-arsed.

Cummins Out.


#48 Allan Marsden

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:42 PM

QUOTE (dkw @ Sep 23 2010, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So much arrogance in so many words. Its fans like you that make it really hard to like to like a club.


laugh.gif So funny how people write hysterical OTT character assassinations that are wrong BUT then react aghast at OTT defence that actually has some truth. To then argue that a post can make you like or dislike a club is rolleyes.gif a tad worrying for the person concerned.

Perhaps Tony Hannan is his article was totally vindicated by internet forums.

Maurice Lindsay did far more for RL than people will ever acknowledge. I daresay it is a human trait to criticise more readily than praise.

Workington? I presume we are talking about the Peter Walsh era? With all due respect how on earth can you say that a RFL employee determined where players went or did not go. Players decide for themselves where they will sign and nobody but them / their agent dictates their destination. Of course you will have been privy to all the discussions taking place and have it on record that such dastardly deeds took place. ohmy.gif This being the same far sighted club that IIRC pushed Walsh out instead of backing a quality coach to the hilt.

Plenty Cumbrians come to Wigan season after season because they love RL and they want to watch high quality RL / the best player in a working class RL community akin to their own. I daresay you stay at hoome with your Maurice Lindsay voodoo doll.

#49 Allan Marsden

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Matt J @ Sep 23 2010, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It didnt matter who fell by the wayside, funnily enough, Wigan didn't suffer in the long term.

Just because he was the face of Skys input, doesn't mean he did well, he nearly killed the game at semi-pro level, and screwed multiple teams over.

As an example, Rugby Union wanted to 'revolutionise' their sport, they got the proper people in, the FA wanted to 'revolutionise' the Football League, so formed the Premier League, the RFL get Maurice Lindsay, says it all about the RFL in the 90's, cock-eyed and half-arsed.


Who fell by the wayside and why?

#50 Matt J

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:52 PM

QUOTE (Allan Marsden @ Sep 23 2010, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who fell by the wayside and why?


Keighley Cougars... Denied a place in the top flight.

Cummins Out.


#51 getdownmonkeyman

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:54 PM

I think Mo can be summed up as thus; his ability to be a front-end man, nodding in the right places and saying the right things, he is without peers. Which, at the time of Murdoch's money coming in, is exactly what the game needed. A day-to-day astute business man, pushing the game forward at club level; not the man for the job.

When he comes into a situation he is like a beath of fresh air, with smiles all round. When he leaves, he appears to leave with a bit of a mess behind.



#52 Allan Marsden

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE (Matt J @ Sep 23 2010, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Keighley Cougars... Denied a place in the top flight.


Who denied them a place Matt? Did Maurice Lindsay take that decision personally or somebody else? Have you noticed no Maurice Lindsay and still clubs are being denied places in the top flight.

#53 JohnM

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 04:02 PM

QUOTE (getdownmonkeyman @ Sep 23 2010, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think Mo can be summed up as thus; his ability to be a front-end man, nodding in the right places and saying the right things, he is without peers. Which, at the time of Murdoch's money coming in, is exactly what the game needed. A day-to-day astute business man, pushing the game forward at club level; not the man for the job.

When he comes into a situation he is like a beath of fresh air, with smiles all round. When he leaves, he appears to leave with a bit of a mess behind.


Not a bad description....certainly he seems to leave enemies!

#54 dkw

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 04:42 PM

QUOTE (Allan Marsden @ Sep 23 2010, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Workington? I presume we are talking about the Peter Walsh era? With all due respect how on earth can you say that a RFL employee determined where players went or did not go.

You should maybe go find out exactly what happened at the time before talking about something you have absolutely no knowledge of.

#55 Matt J

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE (Allan Marsden @ Sep 23 2010, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who denied them a place Matt? Did Maurice Lindsay take that decision personally or somebody else? Have you noticed no Maurice Lindsay and still clubs are being denied places in the top flight.


He was head of the organisation (RFL) and representative of the string pullers (Sky) that denied them, his legacy lives on then... he's a ##### of the highest order.

Cummins Out.


#56 Blind side johnny

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:18 PM

QUOTE (dkw @ Sep 23 2010, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You should maybe go find out exactly what happened at the time before talking about something you have absolutely no knowledge of.



Do tell then!

We'd all like the gory details rather than allusions.
Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


John Ray (1627 - 1705)

#57 dkw

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:22 PM

QUOTE (Blind side johnny @ Sep 23 2010, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do tell then!

We'd all like the gory details rather than allusions.

Workington had a couple of good overseas players about to sign for us, the lovely uncle Mo told them if they were to play in England then it would be for PSG and blocked them coming to Town. This after Town had done all the leg work and were on the brink of signing them.

Edited by dkw, 23 September 2010 - 06:23 PM.


#58 1976PMJwires

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:28 PM

A lot of the club's fans were aggrieved with the way Maurice ran the club in his second stint, believing that he was still 'living in the 80's' and that he should leave.

Due to the increasing pressure on Lindsay from the fans for him to step down


And that is Wigan fans wanting him out!!


#59 Keith T

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:31 PM

Maurice Lindsay thinks he revolutionised the game which is different to reality. He was merely a pawn or a puppet of Murdoch in his quest to gain power of Australian Rugby League in the pay to view war with Kerry Packer.

Murdoch needed to get the British game on board to strengthen his case and Lindsay happened to be in the right position at the time this came about. It could have been anyone but it happened to be Lindsay.

It was Lindsay who wanted a team in Paris and he did everything in his power to ensure that he got that team. It was this that caused so many problems for Workington Town because come hell or high water he was determined that Paris would finish above Town at the end of the season and so not be relegated.

Paris that season had over 70 players and most of them were not British. Two players were supposed to be coming to play for Town but were somehow "waylaid" and ended up at PSG. John Kear at the time was employed as the Director of Coaching Development at the RFL and he was sent across to PSG to, in his own words on Sky, to ensure that PSG finish above Workington. Next Lindsay himself and Harry Jepson went over to Paris and became directors of PSG and of course we won't mention the dubious win that Paris had in the last match of the season which saw Town relegated.

The following season it was Oldham's turn to compete with PSG but in the end the debts at Paris got so high that the project was brought to a halt with debts of over 2 million.

Later was it not Lindsay who left his position as CEO of the RFL to take on a similar position with SLE because he needed to get away from "the dross and the drivel" as he referred to clubs lower than SL clubs.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#60 Allan Marsden

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 08:53 PM

QUOTE (dkw @ Sep 23 2010, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You should maybe go find out exactly what happened at the time before talking about something you have absolutely no knowledge of.


And you do?

Your whole premise / you whole stance is based on what ifs / maybe / could have beens. You have zero proof.

Whatsmore, do you think deals re signings always go ahead. Wigan signed numerous players only for the deal never to reach the stage whereby the player represented the club.

To then argue that your so called views = relegation/doom for Workington is absurd. A club can sign the best player in the world and he breaks his leg, season doomed.

So your hatred of another human being is based on fresh air






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