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Bradford Bulls Pledge Campaign


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#61 Blind side johnny

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE (Wolford6 @ Sep 24 2010, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A few years ago, Dewsbury reached a gf and stated, win-or-lose, they wouldn't be seeking Superleague status.


Wrong.

Try again.




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#62 Wolford6

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 01:10 PM

QUOTE (Blind side johnny @ Sep 24 2010, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wrong.

Try again.



Apologies. Yes you're correct:

[2000 Grand Final] A dramatic, late drop-goal from man of the match Richard Agar won the day for the Rams giving players, supporters and officials genuine hope of a place in Super League.

Unable to meet the minimum stadium requirements for Super League (as part of the RFL's new 'framing the future' guidelines), the Rams proposed a ground share with Sheffield Eagles, playing home games at their Don Valley Stadium while their own stadium was improved. This proposal was turned down by the RFL and the club was left in a precarious position, having invested heavily in playing staff in the hope of taking their place among the sport's elite. The Rams withdrew their application following this initial rejection and were resigned to remaining in the lower leagues.



I thought they had made the decision before the GF.

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#63 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE
One of the things they could do, and one of the things the more successful Championship clubs have done, is to quit whinging.


The clubs do not whinge at all. But just because fans do, does not mean that the clubs do nothing at all and just whinge according to the likes of you.


QUOTE
All professional RL clubs are in the entertainment business. Do you think the way to attract new customers is whinge about how unfair it all is, to tell everyone who might be tempted to come along to a game to not bother because it's all a disgrace?


Yes they are all in the entertainment business. However the game of Rugby League is losing its power in the Heartlands to various things from Football to Computers and other Leisure activitys. There is plenty of new customers within Bradford, Leeds etc service areas. Why not focus efforts more on building the game and club in the service area so that more people become part of THE community Sports Club. Why not promote to the hilt Rugby League to youngsters in your service are so that each year the number and Quality of amateur Rugby League is improved. Most if not all service areas are seeing clubs struggling for players and often folding. For me I would like SL Clubs to stay in there own Service areas and promote themselves as THE local sports club and THE hometown community club to follow. Bradford has over 300,000 potential new customers in its Service area, Leeds even more. Why do these clubs need to go outside the area to other towns which have a club anyway?

QUOTE
Absolutely without exception the successful clubs in SL or the National Leagues have attracted more support and been successful by being open, outward looking and positive. The moment they have turned inwards into bitterness against their fellow clubs and the RFL they have started on a downward spiral that some have never recovered from.


Which clubs you thinking of? Leigh? Better stadium than many in SL. manage to recover from a disastrous season last year to make the playoffs this year. The reason many Championship clubs struggle is simply down to money. One of the biggest ways of making money is via fans coming and watching, spending money on food and merchandise. But the last few years has seen many fans become disillussioned with the way the game is being run. Yes some clubs have made mistakes and pushed fans away as well. The championship is in a fragile state as are he clubs. They mostly do excellent work promoting themselves on a small budget. They do not need a big SL club from another service area to then push them out the way by throwing tickets at schools for example. Rugby League is bigger than SL.The game needs strong championship clubs not just a strong SL system. Its this reason why I am not in favour of bradford or leeds going out of their service areas. And I would hope that they would leave keighley and Hunslet areas alone and let them clubs focus on these areas in promoting the game.


QUOTE
PS, I do care and so do many other SL fans. So feck off with your self-pitying.

Feck off yourself as you do not have much idea of the problems outside SL. And if you asked most SL fans if they cared much about Rugby League outside their club or SL then the answer would in many cases be "No!".

#64 Mumby Magic

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Sep 24 2010, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Halifax, sheffield, cas, Oldham and workington were in the right place at the right time.

But four of those could not hack the costs of Superleague and the other is favourite to bow out..

For a club that was in the wrong place at the wrong time - Widnes - who can afford to operate in Superleague.

Hull, Huddersfield and Salford were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but due to financial strength thay managed to get into Superleague.

If anyone missed out on SL in 1996 and should be in today, then by 2012 with the inclusion of Widnes they will all be in there.

To compete in the top league the clubs desperately need money none more so that Bradford. They were THE club for much of SL and sadly they have gone into a decline due to departing support. The flagship SL needs a strong competition and needs Bradford to be what they were once again.

If Bradford pull 500 fans from the Batley area I wonder how many of those will be fans new to the game and how many Batley fans??


That's a damn fine post.

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#65 Mumby Magic

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 02:08 PM

Can we conclude this before certain members turn this into a slanging match.

1) Where has been the actual proof? I am linked with some Bradford Bulls messaging services and not one has stated there are/were going there but have stated numerous other places.

2) Has there been an official complaint friom either club?

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#66 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE
Prove that Bradford have made "no attempt" to reach the population of the district (which includes Keighley, btw - so you concur Bradford are OK to looks for fans in Keighley - good man) or I will have to label you a liar.

Clue: they have made a lot of effort.

Obviously not enough effort and that can be said for every club not just Bradford. And I never said they made no effort. But there are potentially hundreds of thousands of customers for Bradford Bulls, Leeds Rhinos etc to target in their service are-so why the need to go outside it? And whilst Keighley, Hunslet etc maybe within a service area, it would be good if a SL club and a championship club could come to some agreement where the SL club does not go in to that town/district and that maybe Season ticket holders from both clubs get to have a special rate when there team is not at home. We have then not the case now where 2 teams are targetting the same people. Rugby League is still much a small sport even in its "hearland" areas. The game needs to toughen up its approach on marketing, development and making sure that we have a strong Professional game below SL. We also need pro clubs to help out the amateur game more and that more people are playing our game each year. We need more people to watch both SL and Championship games. The potential in Service Areas is there, but I do not feel the game and clubs are doing it right.

QUOTE
I am sick and tired of saying - Odsal is at the very southern tip of the Brad met area, and therefore of the artificial Service Area. You can hear the tannoys from Odsal in Kirklees if the wind is in the right direction, and you can walk to Calderdale in half an hour from Odsal. Much of the Odsal - and Bulls - hinterland is across the boundary. Why the hell should the Bulls be precluded from promoting themselves more than a mile from their stadium?

You have the whole of the Bradford area plus other ares like Bingley, Ilkley etc to promote yourself as being THE team to follow locally. Guessing over 350,000 potential customers. What fraction actually watch the Bulls? I would rather see Bradford, Leeds etc just concentrating on their own service areas and making Rugby League THE sport to be associated with. With all the success and money Bradford and Leeds have had for example in the past 15 years they still are both smaller clubs than the lower league Soccer teams in them towns. The potential and market is in the service areas in then towns not neighbouring service areas.

QUOTE
You do not insist that Leeds do not market themselves in south or west Leeds, where the local clubs are Hunslet and Bramley. Please explain whay this does not make you a hypocrite?

I have not mentioned up to this post because this particular thread is about Bradford Buls going in to other service areas where there is a Championship club. And as I have said above I would hope that the SL clubs and the lower league clubs could work together that would leave the particular area/town for the championship club to promote themselves and just as importantly the game. Rugby League needs all its clubs to be as strong as possible. A strong service area with many players and officials with strong well run amateur clubs linked with the local pro club(s) means the Professional teams Community work is easier and should mean more people willing to watch games and spend more cash on them teams. This would be better for Rugby League as a whole. Rugby Leage needs to strenthen its grip in these areas or else we possibly could have little strength in our heartland areas in 50 years time.

#67 Wolford6

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 02:58 PM

QUOTE (Lounge Room Lizard @ Sep 24 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have not mentioned up to this post because this particular thread is about Bradford Buls going in to other service areas where there is a Championship club. And as I have said above I would hope that the SL clubs and the lower league clubs could work together that would leave the particular area/town for the championship club to promote themselves and just as importantly the game.


With regard to playing:
There are sixty million people in Britain and only 14 Superleague teams. The best junior players will go to the best teams, just like they do in soccer and cricket.

With regard to watching:
Are you seriously suggesting that, because a family lives in Calderdale, they should have less opportunity to watch cheap rugby than a similar family seven miles away in Bradford?
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#68 Ackroman

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 02:59 PM

Other than the moral reasons for not tramping in someone elses backyard, what about the implications for community work carried out by the likes of Batley and Dewsbury that is funded through grants and awards?

Doesn't the actions taken by Bradford potentially undermine these smaller clubs getting hold of the funding?

#69 The Future is League

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 03:18 PM

QUOTE (Ackroman @ Sep 24 2010, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Other than the moral reasons for not tramping in someone elses backyard, what about the implications for community work carried out by the likes of Batley and Dewsbury that is funded through grants and awards?

Doesn't the actions taken by Bradford potentially undermine these smaller clubs getting hold of the funding?


i would hope not.

#70 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 04:22 PM

QUOTE (Wolford6 @ Sep 24 2010, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With regard to playing:
There are sixty million people in Britain and only 14 Superleague teams. The best junior players will go to the best teams, just like they do in soccer and cricket.

With regard to watching:
Are you seriously suggesting that, because a family lives in Calderdale, they should have less opportunity to watch cheap rugby than a similar family seven miles away in Bradford?
wacko.gif


The best players should be properly looked after and not fed a load of garbage as what has apparently happened at Bradford-and probably other clubs. Most players will probably not make it, but that does not mean they should be treated like a lump of meat as has happened.

Why does a family need to go to Bradford to watch "Cheap" Rugby in a poor stadium? Halifax is a choice as is Batley, Dewsbury and Keighley. Why dont the Bulls promote this "Fantastic" offer more to the people of Bradford? Would it be they are not interested?


#71 The Parksider

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 06:16 PM

QUOTE (Lounge Room Lizard @ Sep 24 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is plenty of new customers within Bradford, Leeds etc service areas. Why not focus efforts more on building the game and club in the service area so that more people become part of THE community Sports Club. Why not promote to the hilt Rugby League to youngsters in your service are so that each year the number and Quality of amateur Rugby League is improved. Most if not all service areas are seeing clubs struggling for players and often folding. For me I would like SL Clubs to stay in there own Service areas and promote themselves as THE local sports club and THE hometown community club to follow. Bradford has over 300,000 potential new customers in its Service area, Leeds even more. Why do these clubs need to go outside the area to other towns which have a club anyway?

The reason many Championship clubs struggle is simply down to money. One of the biggest ways of making money is via fans coming and watching, spending money on food and merchandise. But the last few years has seen many fans become disillussioned with the way the game is being run. The championship is in a fragile state as are he clubs. They mostly do excellent work promoting themselves on a small budget. They do not need a big SL club from another service area to then push them out the way by throwing tickets at schools for example. Rugby League is bigger than SL.The game needs strong championship clubs not just a strong SL system. Its this reason why I am not in favour of bradford or leeds going out of their service areas. And I would hope that they would leave keighley and Hunslet areas alone and let them clubs focus on these areas in promoting the game.

Rugby League is still much a small sport even in its "hearland" areas. The game needs to toughen up its approach on marketing, development and making sure that we have a strong Professional game below SL. We also need pro clubs to help out the amateur game more and that more people are playing our game each year. We need more people to watch both SL and Championship games. The potential in Service Areas is there, but I do not feel the game and clubs are doing it right.

You have the whole of the Bradford area plus other ares like Bingley, Ilkley etc to promote yourself as being THE team to follow locally. Guessing over 350,000 potential customers. What fraction actually watch the Bulls? I would rather see Bradford, Leeds etc just concentrating on their own service areas and making Rugby League THE sport to be associated with. With all the success and money Bradford and Leeds have had for example in the past 15 years they still are both smaller clubs than the lower league Soccer teams in them towns. The potential and market is in the service areas in then towns not neighbouring service areas.

And as I have said above I would hope that the SL clubs and the lower league clubs could work together that would leave the particular area/town for the championship club to promote themselves and just as importantly the game. Rugby League needs all its clubs to be as strong as possible. A strong service area with many players and officials with strong well run amateur clubs linked with the local pro club(s) means the Professional teams Community work is easier and should mean more people willing to watch games and spend more cash on them teams. This would be better for Rugby League as a whole. Rugby Leage needs to strenthen its grip in these areas or else we possibly could have little strength in our heartland areas in 50 years time.


The extracts from your last two posts are quite powerful stuff, and obviously heartfelt and I have some sympathy. I have often said that to be in Superleague you need money and I am afraid the NL clubs don't have any (apart from Widnes). But if you take away the SKY money and take away the money from rich backers from the chosen few then who actually does have any money?? Not many???

So although the SL clubs are "big clubs" and the NL clubs are "small clubs" I have sympathy that they all are mainly as you say "smaller clubs than the lower league Soccer teams in them towns". So I suppose the SL clubs perhaps should not be so high and mighty?

But back to the allocation of SKY money (which without it all but the odd few would be back to being semi pro), where 14 clubs are paid over a million a year each and 21 are paid absolutely zilch (yet SKY have the cheek to televise their matches still). It's that extreme divide in the financial support for clubs that creates the resentment when something like Bradfords marketing bus parking up in Batley comes to peoples attention.

You say "Rugby League is bigger than SL.The game needs strong championship clubs not just a strong SL system." Which is worth a think about. Why does the RFL believe that championship clubs matter so little that they can largely ignore them - which they do financially.

I can only guess that the policy of franchises, licences, salary caps and superleague and the pumping of all the SKY money into it, is an attempt to copy what is seen as a successful domestic competition breeding a successful international side i.e. the NRL and Australia.

I know there's lower tier RL in Australia but it seems accepted there's no P & R and the lower clubs seem to know their place. People often say on here that the danger of following the australian model is that Great Britain is not Australia. If Australia doesn't need a strong second tier do we???

I have my views on this, but when the reality of rugby League is it's strength is NOT in the north, NOT in Yorkshire and Lancashire, but in a few pockets off the M62 it is worth just having a think about what you say because I think it's a thought out fair point of view wether I agree with it or not.

If 14 clubs get over 1M a year from SKY 24 clubs could get 600K. I often wonder why NL clubs/fans don't argue this point



#72 dallymessenger

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 03:27 AM

free market forces, bradford should try and get fans from anywhere else

if batley or dewsbury are too lazy to market themselves in their towns and the bulls can get more fans, go for it

man utd apparently get many fans from london so whats wrong with what bradford are doing.

you dont see brentford fans complaining about man utds london fans

#73 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 09:42 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 25 2010, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
free market forces, bradford should try and get fans from anywhere else

if batley or dewsbury are too lazy to market themselves in their towns and the bulls can get more fans, go for it

man utd apparently get many fans from london so whats wrong with what bradford are doing.

you dont see brentford fans complaining about man utds london fans


You have no idea as usual.First the likes of Batley,Fev and Halifax do plenty of marketing. They go in to virtually every school and college in their area, work with kids museums etc. These clubs are not lazy just lack money and manpower.

Do Man Utd and Liverpool do not go throwing tickets away or promoting themselves elsewhere.They do not need to so your stupid comment is pointless as usual.


#74 Wolford6

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 10:59 AM

QUOTE (Lounge Room Lizard @ Sep 25 2010, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You have no idea as usual.First the likes of Batley,Fev and Halifax do plenty of marketing. They go in to virtually every school and college in their area, work with kids museums etc. These clubs are not lazy just lack money and manpower.

Do Man Utd and Liverpool do not go throwing tickets away or promoting themselves elsewhere.They do not need to so your stupid comment is pointless as usual.


1. You're the one with no idea and stupid comments.

2. If Fax do plenty of marketing and, as you said in your previous post "Why does a family need to go to Bradford to watch "Cheap" Rugby in a poor stadium? then why are you so paranoid about Bradford marketing outside its civic boundaries.
Answer: because you're scared. Scared that Halifax fans will be attracted to the Bulls and scared that Fax will never make it back to Superleague.

3. Fax never made a go of it at Superleague before and they probably wouldnt again unless they could guarantee crowds of at least 6000 against the likes of Wakefield and Harlequins. They cant just rely on good crowds being brought by well-supported teams like Bradford, Wigan, Leeds and Hull.
The only way Fax can realistically attract that level of support is by marketing the club outside its boundaries ... Keighley, Oldham, Hudds ... in fact doing just what the Bulls are doing now.

4. Pity Ben Black is Australian and probably on quota; otherwise we'd have asked for him as well .... and Fax will always take the money off Bradford or anyone else.

5. I actually like Fax and occasionally watch them when our fixtures dont clash.

6. You and Lobby could have a fantastic time when Fax play Leigh, discussing how unfair it is that your team is not automatically allowed into Superleague. Mutual whining in an empty stadium.

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#75 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 11:45 AM

As a Dewsbury fan, I'm not too worried by a Brdaford bus in our town.

Mainly because I doubt many sane people will want to trek over to Bradford to watch a bunch of overpaid losers and/or past it Aussies bleeding some money out of our game to boost their retirement. This is why I guess the "loyal" Bradford fans have been deserting them in droves. Let's hope Mick Potter can put a decent team on the pitch, because Bradford have been an embarrassment this season.

If anyone wants to watch some dedicated mostly local players (and no overpaid imports) sweating blood under an excellent coach then come and watch the Rams. You get an entertaining value for money match pretty much every time, win or lose.

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Now this should get this thread going again!

#76 West Country Eagle

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 12:01 PM

As a fan of a Championship club, I'm fully aware that life can be a struggle financially for clubs below Super League. However, I don't buy this "we're all crippled financially" line from Lounge Room Lizard.

It is perfectly possible to run a club well in the lower leagues on a shoestring budget if needs be. The clubs that have struggled the most in recent years are usually those who are badly managed, with boards who allow coaches to pay over the odds for ex Super League players and journeymen Aussies.

Ring any bells Mr Lizard?

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#77 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 25 2010, 04:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
free market forces, bradford should try and get fans from anywhere else

if batley or dewsbury are too lazy to market themselves in their towns and the bulls can get more fans, go for it

man utd apparently get many fans from london so whats wrong with what bradford are doing.

you dont see brentford fans complaining about man utds london fans


Problem is Dally, is that unlike soccer, RL is not a free market because there is no current unfettered gangway to SL for Batley and Dewsbury.

batley or dewsbury could spend millions on marketing but sadly potenial fans know that there'll be no SL at Batley or Dewsbury until 20 ##### 15

#78 The Parksider

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 01:19 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 25 2010, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Problem is Dally, is that unlike soccer, RL is not a free market because there is no current unfettered gangway to SL for Batley and Dewsbury.

batley or dewsbury could spend millions on marketing but sadly potenial fans know that there'll be no SL at Batley or Dewsbury until 20 ##### 15


If the clubs had millions they could merge as you have suggested, build a stadium better than odsal and finance full cap which Bradford are struggling with.

Then they could get Lounge Room Lizard to drive their marketing bus to Odsal.


#79 Wolford6

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 01:52 PM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Sep 25 2010, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then they could get Lounge Room Lizard to drive their marketing bus to Odsal.



Not on a Thursday afternoon though, he's got double Physics and RI.
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#80 Chris_T

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 03:30 PM

The main consensus here seems to be why dont Batley do there own marketing and beat the Bulls to it. The problem is we dont have the money to do anything on a grand scale so we just have to sit back and watch. It may not be ilegal but I feel its morally wrong. Would the Bulls be happy if they got 500 new fans but the Bulldogs went bust? If the RL world shared the wealth just a little then I think there would be a few SL clubs getting a rather worried. Batley and Dewsbury are well run clubs, and with a little financial help could make the push forward and be included in the ideal of a two tier fully professional league. In the past 10 years or so we have become the First RL club to have classroom facilities for local Children. Revamped all 4 sides of the ground and consistently competed in the CC every year having the lowest playing budget in the league (except last year the Rams had the lowest). We do all this on the lowest gates in the CC and without a single overseas player and bang in the middle of Hudds Leeds Bradford and Wake. (about 5 miles from each) Is this not the Rfl's masterplan for SL clubs already in action? Ground development, young local talent, comunity integration?. Wouldnt it be nice of the RFL to acknowledge this and say "Heres 200.000 history shows you'll use it wisely,go improve your club. I could guarentee that it would be spent on the Function rooms that we so deseprtaley need to increase our own Income streams and take our already superb ground to the next level. I think alot of SL fans are in the dark as to how well some CC clubs are run, the few that go tuts up spoil it for the rest. How about for starters the RFL employ one top notch Marketing guru to work one day every 2weeks for each CC club. They could come up with unique ideas for each club and improve the exposure of RL in doing so. at a cost of what 60.000 per year




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