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#81 Bulliac

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 03:39 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 25 2010, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Problem is Dally, is that unlike soccer, RL is not a free market because there is no current unfettered gangway to SL for Batley and Dewsbury.

batley or dewsbury could spend millions on marketing but sadly potenial fans know that there'll be no SL at Batley or Dewsbury until 20 ##### 15


What total claptrap Lobby. The doors to soccer's 'free' market only open for a multi million pound fee. A price many dozens of times higher than the 'entrance fee' into SL. Neither Batley nor Dewsbury (or Leigh) could spend millions on anything, even if you added their assets together, because they don't have it to spend. Clubs spending mythical millions, just a typical load of Lobbycobblers.

No team is an island.........................................

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#82 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:33 PM

QUOTE (Bulliac @ Sep 25 2010, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What total claptrap Lobby. The doors to soccer's 'free' market only open for a multi million pound fee. A price many dozens of times higher than the 'entrance fee' into SL. Neither Batley nor Dewsbury (or Leigh) could spend millions on anything, even if you added their assets together, because they don't have it to spend. Clubs spending mythical millions, just a typical load of Lobbycobblers.


What if they did have it to spend though? Would/could the RFL ever let them up or would the likes of Bradford throw a spanner in the works? Even if Batley or Dewsbury had the richest man in the world behind them, the fact is they still couldn't be in SL until 2015 - And the ##### handwavers know that

#83 sam

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 05:03 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 25 2010, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What if they did have it to spend though? Would/could the RFL ever let them up or would the likes of Bradford throw a spanner in the works? Even if Batley or Dewsbury had the richest man in the world behind them, the fact is they still couldn't be in SL until 2015 - And the ##### handwavers know that


if they had the richest man in the world backing them, he could buy all rl and have whatever teams he chooses.
foxes or poor people?

#84 Wolford6

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 05:23 PM

In effect, one of the richest men in the world ... Rupert Murdoch ... does control Superleague.

If he wanted to create a hybrid of RL and RU to replace Superleague, I reckon some Superleague clubs would have to go for it.

We'd be left with on old-style RL First and Second Division.

First Division rugby, just like the old days, for Leigh and Fax. Lobby and Lounge Lizard would take only half a season to start the campaign against automatic promotion and relegation.
cool.gif

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#85 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:32 PM

QUOTE (sam @ Sep 25 2010, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if they had the richest man in the world backing them, he could buy all rl and have whatever teams he chooses.


Actually you are only allowed to own one club, as Lenaghan found out.

And lets just say that a millionaire wanted only Batley (or Dewsbury). What then?

#86 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE (Wolford6 @ Sep 25 2010, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In effect, one of the richest men in the world ... Rupert Murdoch ... does control Superleague.

If he wanted to create a hybrid of RL and RU to replace Superleague, I reckon some Superleague clubs would have to go for it.

We'd be left with on old-style RL First and Second Division.

First Division rugby, just like the old days, for Leigh and Fax. Lobby and Lounge Lizard would take only half a season to start the campaign against automatic promotion and relegation.
cool.gif


The way things are now, I could accept a hybrid game if it meant soccer style promotion through the pyramid. At least we'd have a chance of glory. We'd get used to the bits that we not familiar to RL, and anyway it would evolve back to a game more like RL anyway

#87 sam

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 25 2010, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually you are only allowed to own one club, as Lenaghan found out.

And lets just say that a millionaire wanted only Batley (or Dewsbury). What then?


if you're the richest man in the world. you can pretty much do what you like, like buy the whole of the game of rl. if you're going to come up with this faux indignation at least let it have some semblance of sense, if not, just go back to the 'rectangular stadium' stuff.

foxes or poor people?

#88 Riversiderontour

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:58 PM

Oh dear
the poor folk of the wet and windy side of the pennines are all getting in a strop with each other!

Last time i looked it wasnt compulsary to buy just because youd seen an advert.

I see asda and sainsburys ads all the time, still prefer to buy my stuff at aldi

Even as a Wire I am sorry but Westwood is nowhere near as skillful as Super Sam or Ellis.

Wazza's main industrys are service industries, call centres, warehouses and the public sector nowadays. All three are under threat from the Tory cuts.


#89 The Parksider

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 06:53 AM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 25 2010, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And lets just say that a millionaire wanted only Batley (or Dewsbury). What then?


Firstly he would have to be worth more than a million. Given the price of houses and size of come pension funds some pretty ordinary middle class people are worth close on that. Let's say he has 50M to burn.

He can then buy Batley and Dewsbury and amalgamate them, put a new stadium up in the district to meet SL rules and pledge to spend full cap for the next 20 years at least.

Walk off with the NL trophys, apply for SL and prove a ground better than Odsal and a business plan better than Odsal and be in front of Bradford for the 2015 franchises.

SL is all about having the MONEY then you need the stadia and then you can blow the skint clubs like Bradford, Cas and Wakey away.

It's a money game some clobs have some don't.

You need two campaigns, one is to argue lot's more clubs should get a slice of the SKY money, or argue to the right people Leigh would be a great club to "invest" in.

If your club got promoted with no money you'd be blown away and would waste the time of the RFL/SKY and displace a club who has the money. This year if you had been promoted you'd have blown the Catalans project apart.


#90 Lee

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 07:09 AM

QUOTE (Riversiderontour @ Sep 25 2010, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh dear
the poor folk of the wet and windy side of the pennines are all getting in a strop with each other!

Last time i looked it wasnt compulsary to buy just because youd seen an advert.

I see asda and sainsburys ads all the time, still prefer to buy my stuff at aldi



How many Asda vans you see in a Sainsbury's car park wink.gif





A lot of Yorkshiremen believe that when God created the world, he made it with perfect balance.
He balanced the hot areas with the cold areas. the dry areas with the wet areas.
And, in creating Yorkshire, he created the most glorious place on earth - full of majestic beauty and sporting giants.........and for balance he created....... Lancashire.

#91 The Parksider

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 07:19 AM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 25 2010, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The way things are now, I could accept a hybrid game if it meant soccer style promotion through the pyramid. At least we'd have a chance of glory.


A hybrid game would be populated by about 14 big ex-RU clubs with money followed by another 8 ex- RL clubs with money.

There's 16 clubs between Leigh and the "top" at the moment. A hybrid game will put you to at least 27th. at the moment so beware a Hybrid game. You may end up in the third division. Should the french and welsh join the hybrid you may make division five or six.

Leigh c.50M population, Widnes c. 50M population. leigh past cup winners and champs, Widnes past cup winners and champs, Leigh - good amateur game, Widnes good amateur game. Both clubs super grounds.

The SL do not want Leigh but are falling over themselves for Widnes. Therein lies your key.

#92 dallymessenger

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:15 AM

QUOTE (Lounge Room Lizard @ Sep 25 2010, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You have no idea as usual.First the likes of Batley,Fev and Halifax do plenty of marketing. They go in to virtually every school and college in their area, work with kids museums etc. These clubs are not lazy just lack money and manpower.

Do Man Utd and Liverpool do not go throwing tickets away or promoting themselves elsewhere.They do not need to so your stupid comment is pointless as usual.


oh well if those clubs dont have the resources to attract fans and the bulls do, so be it.

market forces will play this out

much rather than go and watch RL than soccer.

#93 dallymessenger

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:18 AM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 25 2010, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Problem is Dally, is that unlike soccer, RL is not a free market because there is no current unfettered gangway to SL for Batley and Dewsbury.

batley or dewsbury could spend millions on marketing but sadly potenial fans know that there'll be no SL at Batley or Dewsbury until 20 ##### 15


the introduction of franchising means clubs with more money and fans will get into SL whilst those with no money wont. so i dont see how its anti free market.

batley and dewsbury have had a century to get it right, lets not blame no promotion for 3 years for the clubs f***k ups.

realistically batley and dewsbury cant support a SL club

fax potentially can but not with lots of development.



#94 Lee

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:20 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 26 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
oh well if those clubs dont have the resources to attract fans and the bulls do, so be it.

market forces will play this out

much rather than go and watch RL than soccer.


Walt they dont need resources to pull in fans, they pretty much sell out every week anyway, till you get your head round how big football is here, you'll never get it.

A little help for you, football is 10x bigger here and probably more than rugby league is to you in Aus, its that big

2 games on today, Newcastle play stoke, wolves play villa, neither will have needed advertising locally cos they'll both pretty much sell out anyway, villa is a top 6 club the other 3 are pretty much average premier league sides






A lot of Yorkshiremen believe that when God created the world, he made it with perfect balance.
He balanced the hot areas with the cold areas. the dry areas with the wet areas.
And, in creating Yorkshire, he created the most glorious place on earth - full of majestic beauty and sporting giants.........and for balance he created....... Lancashire.

#95 dallymessenger

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:23 AM

QUOTE (Lee @ Sep 26 2010, 09:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Walt they dont need resources to pull in fans, they pretty much sell out every week anyway, till you get your head round how big football is here, you'll never get it.

A little help for you, football is 10x bigger here and probably more than rugby league is to you in Aus, its that big

2 games on today, Newcastle play stoke, wolves play villa, neither will have needed advertising locally cos they'll both pretty much sell out anyway, villa is a top 6 club the other 3 are pretty much average premier league sides


how did soccer become so popular?

somewhere along the line there was some marketing involved

im well aware of soccer crowds and ratings lee.

indeed i look at the soccer tables each week hoping that teams like wigan, leeds or hudds get relegated!

my point above was people in batley and dewesbry probably have a soccer side they support and that doesnt seem to be a problem

its only if a rival RL club markets to them where its an issue. if people from these areas are Leeds Utd fans i dont think it would be a problem for them

#96 Riversiderontour

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:31 AM

QUOTE (Lee @ Sep 26 2010, 08:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How many Asda vans you see in a Sainsbury's car park wink.gif

I dont go to Sainsburys, Im a loyal Aldi-ite tongue.gif

But ive seen some in town, still didnt make me want to go!

Even as a Wire I am sorry but Westwood is nowhere near as skillful as Super Sam or Ellis.

Wazza's main industrys are service industries, call centres, warehouses and the public sector nowadays. All three are under threat from the Tory cuts.


#97 Lee

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:32 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 26 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
how did soccer become so popular?


Its always been popular

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 26 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
somewhere along the line there was some marketing involved


Its the national sport, do you advertise in Sydney?

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 26 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
indeed i look at the soccer tables each week hoping that teams like wigan, leeds or hudds get relegated!


Cheers, im a Leeds fan biggrin.gif

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 26 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
my point above was people in batley and dewesbry probably have a soccer side they support and that doesnt seem to be a problem


Hudds have a lot of fans in Batley/Dewsbury, id hazard a guess it would be split between Hudds and Leeds


QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Sep 26 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
its only if a rival RL club markets to them where its an issue. if people from these areas are Leeds Utd fans i dont think it would be a problem for them


Football sides wouldnt need to market the area, Leeds certainly dont need to, Hudds possibly might have done in the past but they get good crowds anyway for the division there in


A lot of Yorkshiremen believe that when God created the world, he made it with perfect balance.
He balanced the hot areas with the cold areas. the dry areas with the wet areas.
And, in creating Yorkshire, he created the most glorious place on earth - full of majestic beauty and sporting giants.........and for balance he created....... Lancashire.

#98 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:32 AM

QUOTE (Wolford6 @ Sep 25 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. You're the one with no idea and stupid comments.

2. If Fax do plenty of marketing and, as you said in your previous post "Why does a family need to go to Bradford to watch "Cheap" Rugby in a poor stadium? then why are you so paranoid about Bradford marketing outside its civic boundaries.
Answer: because you're scared. Scared that Halifax fans will be attracted to the Bulls and scared that Fax will never make it back to Superleague.

3. Fax never made a go of it at Superleague before and they probably wouldnt again unless they could guarantee crowds of at least 6000 against the likes of Wakefield and Harlequins. They cant just rely on good crowds being brought by well-supported teams like Bradford, Wigan, Leeds and Hull.
The only way Fax can realistically attract that level of support is by marketing the club outside its boundaries ... Keighley, Oldham, Hudds ... in fact doing just what the Bulls are doing now.

4. Pity Ben Black is Australian and probably on quota; otherwise we'd have asked for him as well .... and Fax will always take the money off Bradford or anyone else.

5. I actually like Fax and occasionally watch them when our fixtures dont clash.

6. You and Lobby could have a fantastic time when Fax play Leigh, discussing how unfair it is that your team is not automatically allowed into Superleague. Mutual whining in an empty stadium.


Well done you are an idiot. The thing is I am thinking not about Halifax but the game as a whole. IF Batley, Dewsbury, Fev, Keighley or Halifax disappeared from the scene then it would be a massive blow to the game. These clubs provide a good service in developing and promoting Rugby League to the local area. They have done so for decades. Without these championship clubs the game is weaker and we would see a lot less money and people playing and watching the game. You go on about Fax marketing outside the Calderdale Service Area-Why? There is 200,000 people to target in that area from Todmorden to Shelf. Why do Fax need to waste time and money to market themselves out that area? Each service area has enough potential customers to target. And the RFL and clubs need to step up on getting local people watching and playing our game as our power is weakening as a sport. More or less every town has a stronger Soccer scene than Rugby League. That needs to chang for the game to become stronger. Its not all about expansion but also strengthening the game in its heartlands.

#99 John Drake

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Lounge Room Lizard @ Sep 26 2010, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well done you are an idiot.


[we interrupt this thread for a public service announcement]Oh for goodness sake. There are no idiots on this forum. An idiot would not be able to get through the registration process. What this forum is full of are people with different opinions. That is all. That doesn't make them idiots, just people who you disagree with.

I don't mean to pick on you personally for this particular instance of personal abuse, and it may have been prompted by someone having a go at you previously, but this is the first post I read when logging onto the RL section this morning, and sheesh, it just depresses me, it really does, being the latest in an ever growing long line of such stuff on here lately.

Why can't people engage in a reasonable debate any more without having to shove in a few derogatory personal comments for good (bad) measure? It makes the forum feel much nastier than it ought to be, puts a lot of genuine people off from getting involved in the debates and makes work for the moderators. Honestly, if we introduced a zero tolerance policy towards it, there'd hardly be anyone left on here within a month, and none of the mods would get any other work done, so we rely on you all being civil to each other. Is that too much to ask? Really?? It just means thinking twice before hurling out an insult, and then choosing not to include said insult in your post.

I know, I know, I'm wasting seconds of my life typing this because no one pays a blind bit of attention, but there you go, I've done it now.

Meanwhile, back to the topic...

John Drake
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Email: john.drake@totalrl.com


#100 Lee

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE (John Drake @ Sep 26 2010, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[we interrupt this thread for a public service announcement]Oh for goodness sake. There are no idiots on this forum. An idiot would not be able to get through the registration process.


I'll pick you up on the point, are you sure? biggrin.gif



A lot of Yorkshiremen believe that when God created the world, he made it with perfect balance.
He balanced the hot areas with the cold areas. the dry areas with the wet areas.
And, in creating Yorkshire, he created the most glorious place on earth - full of majestic beauty and sporting giants.........and for balance he created....... Lancashire.