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Bradford Bulls Pledge Campaign


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107 replies to this topic

#101 Bulliac

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 10:55 AM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 25 2010, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What if they did have it to spend though? Would/could the RFL ever let them up or would the likes of Bradford throw a spanner in the works? Even if Batley or Dewsbury had the richest man in the world behind them, the fact is they still couldn't be in SL until 2015 - And the ##### handwavers know that


What if the moon were made of green cheese? What if you won the lottery? What it, what if..............

The world of what if, is a marvellous place, I really must visit one day, but sadly I along with the majority of the population actually live in the real world and in the real world we have what we've got, and make the best of it.

Ultimately, you either work with what you've got or you just stand back and moan about it. Trouble is most people eventually get fed up of moaners.................

Edited by Bulliac, 26 September 2010 - 10:56 AM.

No team is an island.........................................

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#102 Blind side johnny

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 11:47 AM



How many posts does it take on any thread, no matter what the topic, to turn it into a "Leigh should be in SL now" one?

My personal estimate is 20 or fewer.

cool.gif


Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


John Ray (1627 - 1705)

#103 The Parksider

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 11:58 AM

QUOTE (Lounge Room Lizard @ Sep 26 2010, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
IF Batley, Dewsbury, Fev, Keighley or Halifax disappeared from the scene then it would be a massive blow to the game. These clubs provide a good service in developing and promoting Rugby League to the local area. They have done so for decades. Without these championship clubs the game is weaker and we would see a lot less money and people playing and watching the game.


It is debatable wether it would be a massive blow to the game if NL clubs dissappeared, and it is debatable wether the game would be significantly weaker without them.

Now Shaw cross, Elland, Stanningley, Hunslet warriors, Heworth, Dewsbury Celtic, Drig, Leigh east, leigh Miners etc etc - if those disappeared that would be a massive loss to the game.

So Superleague is definately very important to the game to keep the best players from RU, swell the attendances at RL games, and provide a vehicle for a national/international profile, and my lord what would we do without the amateur clubs who run the kids teams. What would we do without development officers and the schools responding????

Sadly as I say it is debatable what value the NL clubs have to the game. OF COURSE there is some value but what??

As much as I love Batley take away away fans and probably there are 700 Batley fans.

If there was no Batley but Bradford marketed aggresively in the area as Batley's SL club or huddersfield did it or both would more than 700 Batley people go to Superleague.

That's maybe the point - I don't know - but most fans want Superleague. Use the HKR calculation - six times more people go to HKR now they are in superleague, than when they were in the NL's and doing nothing.

If Batley are Batleys club and they get 700 people, what if Batley didn't exist and RL fans in Batley were enticed by Bradford or Huddersfield - would 4,000 Batley people go to watch those clubs.

I know Hunslet are capable of a good 500 crowd, and that probably a few thousand south leeds people go to Headingley to watch Rhinos.

So for me this is something that needs examining because in 1896 Hunslet, Oldham, Halifax, leigh, Batley, Rochdale, etc were very important to NRU/RL.

The sad thing is the advent of RL junior development and the advent of Superleague in 1996 somehow has removed the importance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being controversial - But I thought when Hunslet nearly folded that would have been a crime. Much better that the club continued as an amateur club like Bramley. The ground was there and the club could have accomodated the Hunslet Parkside juniors, they run a summer side too now so to a certain extent it's not all about stretching every sinew to raise thousands just to stuff it in the pockets of players, because that seems to me all some NL clubs are doing.



#104 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Sep 26 2010, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is debatable wether it would be a massive blow to the game if NL clubs dissappeared, and it is debatable wether the game would be significantly weaker without them.

Now Shaw cross, Elland, Stanningley, Hunslet warriors, Heworth, Dewsbury Celtic, Drig, Leigh east, leigh Miners etc etc - if those disappeared that would be a massive loss to the game.

So Superleague is definately very important to the game to keep the best players from RU, swell the attendances at RL games, and provide a vehicle for a national/international profile, and my lord what would we do without the amateur clubs who run the kids teams. What would we do without development officers and the schools responding????

Sadly as I say it is debatable what value the NL clubs have to the game. OF COURSE there is some value but what??

As much as I love Batley take away away fans and probably there are 700 Batley fans.

If there was no Batley but Bradford marketed aggresively in the area as Batley's SL club or huddersfield did it or both would more than 700 Batley people go to Superleague.

That's maybe the point - I don't know - but most fans want Superleague. Use the HKR calculation - six times more people go to HKR now they are in superleague, than when they were in the NL's and doing nothing.

If Batley are Batleys club and they get 700 people, what if Batley didn't exist and RL fans in Batley were enticed by Bradford or Huddersfield - would 4,000 Batley people go to watch those clubs.

I know Hunslet are capable of a good 500 crowd, and that probably a few thousand south leeds people go to Headingley to watch Rhinos.

So for me this is something that needs examining because in 1896 Hunslet, Oldham, Halifax, leigh, Batley, Rochdale, etc were very important to NRU/RL.

The sad thing is the advent of RL junior development and the advent of Superleague in 1996 somehow has removed the importance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being controversial - But I thought when Hunslet nearly folded that would have been a crime. Much better that the club continued as an amateur club like Bramley. The ground was there and the club could have accomodated the Hunslet Parkside juniors, they run a summer side too now so to a certain extent it's not all about stretching every sinew to raise thousands just to stuff it in the pockets of players, because that seems to me all some NL clubs are doing.


So where would all the SL players be who started their careers in the Championship leagues? Or the coaches? or the match officials? For a successful sport, you need a full structure. If it was just SL and amateur, it would soon run into problems with the development of players, coaches, officials etc.. Both Batley and Dewsbury do development work, so that would be lost.

And I doubt that if say the Batley club folded, that Bradford's attendances would increase by 700. As a Dewsbury fan, I have no connection or interest in supporting Bradford. If any league is there to stuff money in the pockets of players, it's SL. Matt Orford a good use of money? A past his best Aussie who barely lasted a few games. Was he here to develop his skills, learn new experiences or just line his pockets? Ditto Steve Menzies. I would guess that one of their salaries probably exceeds the playing budget of Dewsbury or Batley. As afr as value for money goes, I would argue that Batley's playing squad contributes more to the game this season than Orford.

Championship clubs add a lot of value to the game and are great value for the comparatively little they cost the RFL.

#105 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 04:16 PM

QUOTE (Bulliac @ Sep 26 2010, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What if the moon were made of green cheese? What if you won the lottery? What it, what if..............

The world of what if, is a marvellous place, I really must visit one day, but sadly I along with the majority of the population actually live in the real world and in the real world we have what we've got, and make the best of it.

Ultimately, you either work with what you've got or you just stand back and moan about it. Trouble is most people eventually get fed up of moaners.................


Smacks of I'm alright Jack. Wonder of you'd be of the same opinion if you were stuck in the lower leagues (which you might be after 2015 if youre still at Odslum)

Tell you what - I'm working with what I've got - which is called voting with your feet. I'm very unhappy with the way things are, and so I have chosen to ditch sky sports for good after the inernationals until the licensing system wrt P&R is modified to the benefit of the lower tier clubs. Imagine if all lower tier RL fans did the same.......

#106 Wolford6

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 04:24 PM

QUOTE (Wakefield Ram @ Sep 26 2010, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Matt Orford a good use of money? A past his best Aussie who barely lasted a few games. Was he here to develop his skills, learn new experiences or just line his pockets? Ditto Steve Menzies.


Matt Orford:
I think you're right.


Steve Menzies:
I think you're wrong.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#107 Amber Avenger

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 04:35 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 26 2010, 05:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Imagine if all lower tier RL fans did the same.......


I just did. It was exactly the same as it is now. If you want to protest against Sky, go ahead. If you want to fight against the lack of P&R you are fighting the wrong battle by going for Uncle Rupert

Edited by Amber Avenger, 26 September 2010 - 04:36 PM.

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#108 The Parksider

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 07:17 AM

QUOTE (Wakefield Ram @ Sep 26 2010, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So where would all the SL players be who started their careers in the Championship leagues?

For a successful sport, you need a full structure.

If it was just SL and amateur, it would soon run into problems with the development of players, coaches, officials etc.

Both Batley and Dewsbury do development work, so that would be lost.

And I doubt that if say the Batley club folded, that Bradford's attendances would increase by 700. As a Dewsbury fan, I have no connection or interest in supporting Bradford.

If any league is there to stuff money in the pockets of players, it's SL.

Championship clubs add a lot of value to the game and are great value for the comparatively little they cost the RFL.


The norm is for SL players to play junior, youth/Academy and then reserve and first team SL. The NL's are not the breeding ground for Superleague players.

The full structure for that path is junior club - academy - SL club. SL clubs/RFL support fitting championship clubs into the structure as "feeder clubs" but NL clubs largely resist this.

So at the moment NL clubs mainly exist on the sidelines in a fashion such that they take the surplus players from the "system" and seemingly provide an alternative place to spend your money if you like Non-League (Non SL that is) Rugby League.

I do, and I go to Keighley, Hunslet, Dewsbury, Fax & Batley.

But I get the feeling that most people will travel the few extra miles to a Superleague game rather than watch NL, the evidence seems to be people don't walk or get the bus a mile or so to their local club, they travel for the bigger stage where of course some money is wasted on injured and non performing SL players but that's pro-sport anywhere.

You would not switch to Bradford from Dewsbury which is fine, but Bradford ran an average of 15,350 gates at one point in SL, now that was "added value".

I'm looking for some substance to the idea that "Championship clubs add a LOT of value to the game", because until that is forthcoming SL clubs really do need to get into Championship club areas for the good of the game as a whole.




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