21 replies to this topic

[no13benny]

Having seen James Graham get the top meters maker award for the second season in a row, I was sceptical as to his actual effectiveness when running with the ball. He's a workhorse sure, but does he make the most meters with the ball?

To find out, I did a little maths of my own, using the meters and the carries stats, to get an average of meters per carry.

The original top ten for forwards (excluding hookers as it's a different type of go forward) is as follows:


Player Metres
James Graham 4036
Andy Lynch 3074
Rhys Lovegrove 3029
Adrian Morley 2993
Michael Korkidas2954
Paul Wood 2663
Jamie Peacock 2594
Joel Tomkins 2577
Michael Vella 2549
Stuart Fielden 2543

The meters per carry table I have created using these same ten players looks like this:

Player Metres Carries Ave.
Adrian Morley 2993 373 8.024128686
Michael Korkidas2954 382 7.732984293
Jamie Peacock 2594 347 7.475504323
Rhys Lovegrove 3029 408 7.424019608
Stuart Fielden 2543 358 7.103351955
Paul Wood 2663 381 6.989501312
Michael Vella 2549 370 6.889189189
James Graham 4036 598 6.74916388
Joel Tomkins 2577 400 6.4425
Andy Lynch 3074 506 6.075098814

So according to this, the most effective per carry is Adrian Morley, followed by Korkidas and Peacock.

James Graham is down in 7th. I'm not intending to take away anything he has achieved this year, or doubting the amount of effort he must put in over a season, but it does seem that this could be another way of looking at forwards performances over a season.

Edited by no13benny, 05 October 2010 - 03:48 PM.

[High Peak Rhino]

Do Graham's metres include all those for running over to moan at the ref?

[tag]

so if an academy forward for example played 1 first team game,and on his first run made a bust and ran 30 m,and was then taken off,would this make him the best forward because he averaged 30m per run?

Edited by tag, 04 October 2010 - 02:19 PM.

[Wolford6]

So according to this, the most effective per carry is Adrian Morley, followed by Korkidas and Peacock.

Whenever I've seen him, Michael Korkidas is really effective but only plays for 30 minutes a game. Andy Lynch and Stuart Fielden often play for an hour or more in a game. That has to be taken into consideration.

[no13benny]

Common sense is needed here. Obviously there needs to be a minimum amount of carries to be considered. I don't see anyone with 1 carry in the list.

I just thought this was an interesting angle.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I remember the season Gareth Raynor came back to Hull on loan after switching to union to play for Leicester. He played Halifax in 2003 (worst team ever in SL) and made something like 15m per carry on average and was well clear at the top for that statistic. I think it was so high due to making a few length-of-the-field carries.

There needs to be a minimum on this stat. Or use standard deviation or something (haven't done A-Level Maths for years so can't fully remember what the best way to look at these stats is!).

[clement]

Do Graham's metres include all those for running over to moan at the ref?

good one

[Padge]

Do Graham's metres include all those for running over to moan at the ref?

If they subtracted meters lost for backchatting the ref then Graham's figure would be negative.

[dkw]

So he shouldn`t get it because he does the most work? What a very odd premise.

[MattSantos]

so if an academy forward for example played 1 first team game,and on his first run made a bust and ran 30 m,and was then taken off,would this make him the best forward because he averaged 30m per run?

No because it's over a season. Stupid.

The effectiveness is something that we need to understand about a ball runners carries. Whether it's the hard work coming off your own line or winning the collision they need to be accounted for somehow.

Metres per game can be a very useless stat indeed.

[geek]

Joel Clinton 2230/275 =8.1(09) recurring!

[tag]

No because it's over a season. Stupid.

The effectiveness is something that we need to understand about a ball runners carries. Whether it's the hard work coming off your own line or winning the collision they need to be accounted for somehow.

Metres per game can be a very useless stat indeed.

yes that forward played once in a season,so that would be his seasons stat!stupid.

[Marv Woodburn]

I just thought this was an interesting angle.

I agree, but minutes played should also be taken into account, somehow.

[no13benny]

I agree, but minutes played should also be taken into account, somehow.

If they added that to the opta stats next year, ave. minutes per game, then that could add to the equation

[RedPhoenix]

Having seen James Graham get the top meters maker award for the second season in a row, I was sceptical as to his actual effectiveness when running with the ball. He's a workhorse sure, but does he make the most meters with the ball?

To find out, I did a little maths of my own, using the meters and the carries stats, to get an average of meters per carry.

The original top ten for forwards (excluding hookers as it's a different type of go forward) is as follows:

Your missing Lovegrove (who has played prop all year), he's made over 3,000 meters. Great effort considering it's his first year in the front row.

Joel Clinton must be there or there abouts for meters per carry too.

Edited by RedPhoenix, 05 October 2010 - 10:02 AM.

[no13benny]

Your missing Lovegrove (who has played prop all year), he's made over 3,000 meters. Great effort considering it's his first year in the front row.

Joel Clinton must be there or there abouts for meters per carry too.

Cheers for that, amended the top 10.

No seems Clinton isn't in there for meters alone based on the official Super League Statistics.

Note I've only based this on the top 10 meter makers, so if Clinton isn't in that, I haven't looked at him for meters per carry. I wanted to avoid studying every forward in the league for the sake of time.

[Ex-Kirkholt]

Whenever I've seen him, Michael Korkidas is really effective but only plays for 30 minutes a game. Andy Lynch and Stuart Fielden often play for an hour or more in a game. That has to be taken into consideration.

Korkidas only carried 50m less than Morley which amazes me - I would have put Morley way ahead !

Edited by Ex-Kirkholt, 05 October 2010 - 08:09 PM.

[Millman]

Stats are a brilliant tool for those that don't understand how the game is played to convince themselves that they do.

[no13benny]

Stats are a brilliant tool for those that don't understand how the game is played to convince themselves that they do.

Glad you enjoyed them.

[MrFussy]

I understand the argument here but surely if Graham getting the award undermines players who make more metres per carry, one of them getting the award (as dkw points out) would undermine Graham's effort and workload?

Also with all the varying factors you would have to involve then how would they possibly describe this award, the player who made the most metres per carry who made a minimum of x amount of carries and played a minimum of x amount of games? If a prop made significantly more metres per carry than Graham does and was better over the course of the season then surely they'd be in with a shot of making the dream team anyway which I would argue is an equal if not greater accolade.

You could also start bringing variables into the award for the player who makes the most tackles by looking at what number of tackles they were the first, second, third man into etc, not to mention the efficiency of tackling. If you were going to give the top metre award to the player with the greatest metres per carry then should you not give the tackling award to the player with the highest success rate in tackles after a minimum number of x amount of tackles and so on? Again that could potentially undermine the great effort certain players put in.

The award is what it is and there's no real need to change it.