30 replies to this topic

[Good Omen]

Having witnessed Saints being overran by which was in fairness a fantastic Wigan outfit last saturday I have got to thinking that IMHO Saints have been getting gradually worse since the all conquering side of 2006. I think we need several new players if we are to compete with the other top3 sides. The positions I feel we need the most are

1) Stand off. Never really liked Pryce anyway and feel his best days are behind him. Brown would be a great replacement
2) Loose Forward - Not been the same since Scully left. Flannery is too long in the tooth.
3) Centre - OK we have Shenton, but what about the other side.
5) Meli replacement on left wing
4) Cover at 7 for Eastmond. Great player thugh he is (in the same class as Tomkins and McGuire) but no use crocked

all this leads me to believe that unless it gets fixed you wont see Saints at OT for a little while

[bobbruce]

Having witnessed Saints being overran by which was in fairness a fantastic Wigan outfit last saturday I have got to thinking that IMHO Saints have been getting gradually worse since the all conquering side of 2006. I think we need several new players if we are to compete with the other top3 sides. The positions I feel we need the most are

1) Stand off. Never really liked Pryce anyway and feel his best days are behind him. Brown would be a great replacement
2) Loose Forward - Not been the same since Scully left. Flannery is too long in the tooth.
3) Centre - OK we have Shenton, but what about the other side.
5) Meli replacement on left wing
4) Cover at 7 for Eastmond. Great player thugh he is (in the same class as Tomkins and McGuire) but no use crocked

all this leads me to believe that unless it gets fixed you wont see Saints at OT for a little while

for me

1/ Wellens
2/ Gardner
3/ Shenton
4/ Pryce
5/ Foster
6/ Lomax
7/ Eastmond
8/ Perry
9/ Roby
10/Graham
11/Soliola
12/Puletua
13/LMS


Not bad up to there would replace Gardner if possible but after that it is quite bare

[Segovia Carpet]

Not bad up to there would replace Gardner if possible but after that it is quite bare

Did he not sign for Salford? Wouldnt mind tbh if not

[bobbruce]

Did he not sign for Salford? Wouldnt mind tbh if not

Let's hope so.On the team I've forgot Wilkin so would probably start with him and bring Puletua off the bench

[Saint Billinge]

We need to start by getting rid of the boring one-man rugby. A decent winger would do nicely and cover at half-back. Wilkin needs to up his game, although out of fairness he spent three months out through injury. There was no spark in the middle of the park at the GF, which put us on the back-foot up against a classy Wigan attack.

As for Pryce, he shines and fades depending on the mood.

[saintfrank]

Oh ye of little faith...we got to second spot and another grand final with a team with major injuries for MOST of the season, and with kid after kid playing games. If we had a fit Pryce and Eastmond EVERY game i think we would have overhauled Wigan in the league, and probably won the final. Considering the doom merchants who t5hought us and Leeds would struggle, all i can say to that is, you got it half right.

[goldcoaster]

With a new coach next year, and a bumper group of young players, give the saints a bit of time next year and I think they could impress in a big way.

[Finn]

If we had a fit Pryce and Eastmond EVERY game i think we would have overhauled Wigan in the league, and probably won the final.

Just keep believing that urban myth. Remember Good Friday - Saints with Eastmond and Price 10 Wigan without Andy Coley 18.

[Exiled Wiganer]

It is dangerous to extrapolate into infinity on the evidence of one match, but Saints' limitations were uncharacteristic ones. I would say that Saints' biggest challenge is to find a go-to man for the big occasion. They relied on KC* to beat Cas by enough to play Wire at home, and then to turn the game around against the Giants. Are Pryce and Eastmond the sorts of characters to get Saints out of a hole?
Wigan latterly have been able to trust in Sam to provide the magic, as he has character and ability. I haven't seen evidence that Pryce or Eastmond have the same, fabulously talented as they are.
They will be strong but I don't see an heir to the world class players and dominant characters of years gone by...

[WalesRLFan]

1 Wellens
2 Foster
3 Shenton
4 Soliola
5 Lomax
6 Pryce
7 Eastmond
8 Graham
9 Moore
10 McCarthy-Scarsbrook
11 Puletua
12 Dixon
13 Wilkin
INT Perry
INT Emmitt
INT Moore
INT AN Other

not looking too bad too me

[Padge]

Saints will be in with a shout next season, they do need an organiser though Pryce isn't one and Eastmond is still to prove himself in that department.

I find it funny seeing people saying Saints should cut out the one man rugby, the way they set up their 'flamboyount' plays in the past was very often on the back of one man rugby based in itself on top of a quick PTB.

[MrFussy]

As things stand I'd go for something like...

1. Wellens
2. Foster
3. Shenton
4. Meli
5. Lomax
6. Pryce
7. Eastmond
8. Perry
9. Roby (though I'd be tempted to start with Moore to keep Roby's impact off the bench)
10. Graham
11. Soliola
12. Wilkin
13. Flannery

14. Moore
15. Puletua
16. McCarthy-Scarsbrook
17. Clough

That leaves the likes of Dixon, Ashurst, Magennis, Wheeler, Gaskell, Armstrong etc in reserve. I like the look of the squad, especially in the pack where they should be able to hold their own against anyone, though the team in general doesn't feel quite complete. I'd rather Lomax in a more creative position but who would you move to achieve this? If Pryce does go to Bradford then maybe he'll be given first crack at stand off but then if Gardner leaves too there's a vacant wing slot so Meli would probably end up continuing there with another player moved to centre as a short term fix. Still if they can avoid the ridiculous injury problems of this year (which obviously is far from certain) then they should be able to compete on all fronts again.

[Saint Billinge]

Saints will be in with a shout next season, they do need an organiser though Pryce isn't one and Eastmond is still to prove himself in that department.

I find it funny seeing people saying Saints should cut out the one man rugby, the way they set up their 'flamboyount' plays in the past was very often on the back of one man rugby based in itself on top of a quick PTB.

But the one-man rugby seen at the Saints this season hasn't resulted in the Saints' trademark rugby consistantly. On many occasions, it's one play the ball and down the middle trying to get through a brick wall defence. Wigan blitzed us with movement off the ball and quick handling.

Okay, I know we reached a Grand Final, but it was a stuttering season. I never expected a Grand Final appearance on the showing, so it was a bonus.

People say it's a one-off game, however, we lacked the killer instinct in the three previous finals. We had Pryce and Eastmond in the final last year but to no avail.

And yes, we need to cut out the backchat once and for all.

As for Wigan, it's good to see them back up there, which makes for an interesting season next year.

Edited by Saint Billinge, 06 October 2010 - 04:24 AM.

[Saint Toppy]

I think Saints are short of 3 new players, a left centre, left wing and another back rower in place of Flannery (who for me has been one of the most disappointing overseas signings in recent years).

I actually think next year may be the right time to move Wellens into loose forward and put either Lomax or Foster into the FB spot (with the other going onto the right wing to partner Shenton). This will give a bit more of an attacking edge while we wont lose anything with Wellens in the pack as he's always had a good workrate & been strong defensively.

Lomax
Foster
Shenton
*New Centre
*New Winger
Pryce
Eastmond
Perry
Roby
Graham
Puletua
Wilkin
Wellens

Moore
LMS
Clough
Soliola

[bewareshadows]

Did not see this thread until after the Pryce to bradford thread. I think there is alot of over reaction going on here.

We have new players coming in and it's not like we where hammered in the final 40 -0. We where within 10 points of a very good Wigan side, without our coaches prefered halfbacks.

Take Thomas Lululi and Sam tomkins out of Wigan and see if they are as devestating in attack, or would the coach opt for a different style of play? (ps not saying we lost because of this, but it did not help, lets leave it at that. Wigan where the better side all year long)

I don't think Pryce goes missing, but I just don't think he is a natural half back.
The man is definately one of the best sports men in the game and his strength of running and ability to spot a gap are 2nd to none.
For me he plays like a traditional Saints loose forward more than a half back. I would love to see him at loose as I think he would be devestating there. (centre is also an option but I think he would leave if put in the centres) Pryce has a limited kicking ability and is not really a first or 2nd choice kicker, but has had to work on that part of his game this year with the absense of long and Eastmond. However most half backs have that ability from early on, not a new skill learnt when 28. He has a big boot so maybe a go to man for the odd 40 - 20.

Saints used to have 3 pivots in attack through Martyn, Long and Sculthorpe.
I see no reason why Eastmond, Lomax and Pryce would not work.

Flannery, Puletua and even Wilkin nowa days offer very little in the way of creativity at loose forward. A few years back I would have put Wilkin in that role, but the coaches seam to have let him waste away at 2nd row in favour of Flannery (if anyone can explain to me what flannery offers in attack please do) he can tackle and that's about his best skill.

However it's all hyperthetical as I can't see a coach being brave enough to ask pryce to move position as that's why he came to Saints. But with 4 young half backs coming through Pryce will have to go sometime. If he resigns another 3 years then those youngsters will go the way of Matty Smith and get work else where.

For me this would be my ideal Saints line up for 2011 with the current squad.

Fullback: Wellens
Wing: Foster
Centre: Shenton
Centre: Meli/Soliola (depends if meli re-signs)
Wing: Tom Armstrong
Scrum half: Eastmond
Stand off : Lomax

Prop: Graham
Hooker: Roby
Prop: Puletua
2nd Row: Clough
2nd Row: Dixon
Loose forward: Pryce

subs
prop: LMS
Prop: Josh Perry
2nd row/Utility: Wilkin
Hooker/ Utility: Moore

I've left Flannery out as I truely think whether he re signs or not he would only make my team in the 2nd row, if Meli did not re-sign. If meli goes elsewhere, Soliola will be playing centre. Otherwise if Meli stays he would be centre and Soliola would take a spot as a 2nd rower come prop.

That would give us a huge pack one of the biggest in the league.
It would also give us the 3 kickers and play makers in the one side.

Reverting to a more traditional 2 hookers rather than the 3 we have managed this year. Although there is a ? over Moore staying if rumours are to be believed.

I think we are far from panic stations, I know some say Eastmond has not proved himself but people have short memories. Earlier in the year Eastond was moving Saints around the field. He has not played proper for the lsat 3 months through injury. If I was the board I'd be talking to him now about a 3 or 4 year deal, rather than wait for him to get fit and remind the rest of the RU world about his quality and risk losing him for zip come the end of next year, along with pryce to bradford.

Also we have a left centre in Soliola, he is a new zealand international who has played 4 games in full this year and 2 half games where he went off injured. I don't think we can question his ability there until we see him play there.

Also Lomax would be wasted on the wing in my opinion. Stand off or Full back but not Wing. There are plenty of other youngsters who can gain experience by playing wing next year. Wheeler, Gaskell, Armstrong etc.

Lomax has proved he is up to the job against some very good sides this year. For the final he was another hail mary by potter, just like eastmond the week previous. Neither where fit or match ready and they where all over the field in defence. (Lomax sometimes at centre) Inside meli not the best defensive player in the world. It was crazy tactics and Wigan ran through it at will that first 15 minutes.

Edited by bewareshadows, 06 October 2010 - 07:54 AM.

[Futtocks]

While Saints' defeat in the GF may be dispiriting for their fans, I think they have much to be positive about. What I've seen of their youngsters is promising, and the new signings for 2011 look pretty decent.

Eastmond needs a good long run of games without injury, before we can really see his capabilities. He's still young and has a lot to learn about his position.

[AndyCapp]

Not sure about Royce Simmons.

Failed first grade Coach then assistant Coach now Saints Coach.
He needed Saints more than they should have needed him, his NRL prospects were 0 at top Coach level, he has nothing to lose.
Saints on the other hand.............

Wigan had the right idea and up and comer, maybe Saints should have gone for Kearney before Parramatta got him.

[bewareshadows]

Not sure about Royce Simmons.

Failed first grade Coach then assistant Coach now Saints Coach.
He needed Saints more than they should have needed him, his NRL prospects were 0 at top Coach level, he has nothing to lose.
Saints on the other hand.............

Wigan had the right idea and up and comer, maybe Saints should have gone for Kearney before Parramatta got him.

Possibly, but he was not the only applicant. The board must have seen something in the guy. I remember when we signed Millward, alot of people said that he had won nothing and should not have been picked. However he went on to be our most successful coach ever.

Hanley was a gamble that paid off.

Shaun McRea, was a relative unknown.

Anderson and Potter where up and coming yet their success in bringing the title to Saints was limited. Although Anderson did well in terms of league and cup.

The question is whether the coach and team fit together well.

You can have the best coach in the world, but if his playing philosophy does not fit the team it can cause more problems than solutions. What the team needs after Potter maybe what Royce offers.
I am not one to judge before the guy has even had one game. Give it a season and then we will see where we lie.

He's an unknown quantity we'll see if it's another good decision by the board. For me Potter was needed for the transition from the old gaurd to the new, he just lacked that ability to win the critical games.

[AndyCapp]

Possibly, but he was not the only applicant. The board must have seen something in the guy. I remember when we signed Millward, alot of people said that he had won nothing and should not have been picked. However he went on to be our most successful coach ever.

Hanley was a gamble that paid off.

Shaun McRea, was a relative unknown.

Anderson and Potter where up and coming yet their success in bringing the title to Saints was limited. Although Anderson did well in terms of league and cup.

The question is whether the coach and team fit together well.

You can have the best coach in the world, but if his playing philosophy does not fit the team it can cause more problems than solutions. What the team needs after Potter maybe what Royce offers.
I am not one to judge before the guy has even had one game. Give it a season and then we will see where we lie.

He's an unknown quantity we'll see if it's another good decision by the board. For me Potter was needed for the transition from the old gaurd to the new, he just lacked that ability to win the critical games.

Who else applied?

[getdownmonkeyman]

It is dangerous to extrapolate into infinity on the evidence of one match, but Saints' limitations were uncharacteristic ones. I would say that Saints' biggest challenge is to find a go-to man for the big occasion. They relied on KC* to beat Cas by enough to play Wire at home, and then to turn the game around against the Giants. Are Pryce and Eastmond the sorts of characters to get Saints out of a hole?
Wigan latterly have been able to trust in Sam to provide the magic, as he has character and ability. I haven't seen evidence that Pryce or Eastmond have the same, fabulously talented as they are.
They will be strong but I don't see an heir to the world class players and dominant characters of years gone by...

Pryce certainly has the ability to tear sides a new one, whether he has the desire is another matter.