52 replies to this topic

[robygerrard]

This is my first post - it may be my last.
Just wanted to share my experiences at the "Grand" Final.
The build up to the match was fine & I & my 2 boys had a walk around the fanzone where 1 of my boys won a t-shirt.
Once in the ground the atmosphere in the build-up to kick off was ok – we were sat in the lower section to the left of the tunnel; plenty of neutrals in there including a group of 10-15 young children accompanied by a couple of ladies 1 of whom was supporting Wigan & another neutral (Leeds I think).
Where we were the minutes silence was impeccably observed & the atmosphere reached a peak when the teams came out – spine tingling!!
Of course, as a Saints fan things deteriorated on the pitch pretty rapidly!
Off the pitch after about 5 minutes there looked to be a high tackle on a Saints player & we all went up in protest – a lone voice pipes up behind me, “ Sit down you effing Saints scum. You’re all the same – can dish it out but can’t take it!!”
Several of us turn round at this to see a man well into his 70’s in a Warrington shirt delivering this tirade – his wife/daughter? makes no attempt to shut him up.
He is shouted down in no uncertain terms but his voice can be heard regularly gloating & baiting Saints fans whenever Wigan score or Saints make a mistake.
2nd half & Meli nearly takes of Tomkins head – cue for our Wire friend to go into overdrive – “You effing Saints b***ards, you’re all the effing same, you effing scum!!”
My 2 sons look scared & angry – the group of children across from me look simply scared – I turn around & t` Old Wire (without swearing) to basically sit down & shut up; can he not see there are children around?
By this time other Saints fans are joining in & telling him to shut up – many of them in pretty colourful language – I lose the plot a bit & basically tell everyone to stop swearing because there are scared kids about.
A steward comes in & has a word with Old Wire, who, as far as I can remember in my rage, does apologise to me.
A policeman arrives who seems more intent on asking me to sit down rather than looking for troublemakers.
I could have quite easily gone home at this point – my son asked to leave – but I wanted to stay & give the team a round of applause despite the poor performance, as the season had been enjoyable overall & a few players are leaving or retiring.
Things settled for a time after this but then after another incident a Saints supporting lady obviously the worse for drink starts effing & blinding like a trooper; her friend/sister tries to shut her up & her daughter (?12-15) looks horrified & puts a scarf around her ears.
My youngest son is now sitting with his head in his hands close to tears & the littl’uns opposite look scared & upset.
Fortunately, the lady (?) calms down & the rest of the match passes of with no problems.
The first things my sons say when we get out of the ground is that they don’t want to go to any more Grand Finals because of the nasty atmosphere – all we talk about on the way home is about this & not about the match.
I am not Ned Flanders & family – my sons probably hear worse than this in school every day & I’m not averse to a bit of industrial language in the right setting.
At Saints I go in the Family Stand so we don’t usually get these problems but every Grand Final we’ve been to there’s always idiots tanked up on ale oblivious to anyone around them – said idiots also get up & down to the toilet by the minute.
Rugby League is a great game & is often called the family game – however, the only family it seems to resemble at these Grand Finals is something out of Shameless!!
I will not be attending any more Grand Finals (if we get there!) not because Saints got beat again but because I don’t want to see mine or other peoples kids scared & intimidated by the behaviour of so-called adults – if I was one of those little kids I’d never want to go to another Rugby League match.
I seriously think that, much as it galls me, segregation should be considered; I have no problem with the many Wigan fans in the Saints end who seemed to cause no problem – Old Wire behind me may have been embittered by his teams inability to beat Saints over the years & get to the Grand Final this year; he’d obviously made it his mission to goad as many Saints fans as possible & succeeded in this in my case.
I also think that kick off at 6pm means that people are on the ale all day & much the worse for wear by kick off
Could the match not kick off at 3 – if it coincides with football & is not convenient for our paymasters at Sky could it not be played on Sunday at 3?
Sadly, if Saints get there next year I will sit in the comfort of my own home & watch the match on Sky, comfortable in the knowledge that win or lose I won’t have to listen to a bitter & twisted nutter (I don’t class all Wire fans like this) try to wind me up or put up with drunks scaring the kids & going to the toilet every 2 minutes.
So much for a “Grand” Final day out!
RFL do you care?!

[carlos]

i must say it is sad to hear such language especially in front of kids, i am usually the boring one who tells me mates to stop swearing whilst there are kids about.

However, i must say that out of all the super league grounds ive a, been to and b, seen on sky , knowlsley has to be right up there, the Wanky warrington chants and the ref abuse is far worse there than any other ground in the league. Im not saying other grounds dont have this problem , it may be they are just more vocal , but surely you must hear it there.

Not condoning the agression your children would have encountered though.

PS, welcome to the board.

[goldcard]

There's always a few dozen at every big game, I think you got the unlucky ticket being near a good number of them.
As you know from Knowsley Road, they aren't eveywhere, they can be avoided.Even at the Halliwell.
Maybe a "Families" section could be set up at OT in future, non segregated, but away from the fuelled up speccies, and a few extra stewards on hand.
Pity the handful ruined your night.
Return, view the comments you provoke, post, join in, and welcome to the friendly place to discuss the game.

[carlos]

we also had beer and bottles chucked at me and my mates because we were cheering a wigan win by saints fans. fortunately it was a woman who was the perpetrator so we left it.

[westlondonfan]

we also had beer and bottles chucked at me and my mates because we were cheering a wigan win by saints fans. fortunately it was a woman who was the perpetrator so we left it.

I was not there and only watched it in a bar in London but the one thing I didn't like about it was that awful song that Eddie Hemmings said was the grand final song.

[East Coast Tiger]

Surely there are alcohol-free sections. That's the place to go if you have kids. And if you want to drink you have to make a choice about whether it's more important than avoiding the drunks that can cause trouble.

[dallymessenger]

thats why they have family sections at RL games which are also alcohol free

and usually they are a fraction of the price of regular tickets

whats described above sounds fairly typical for a RL game.

[Bedford Roughyed]

thats why they have family sections at RL games which are also alcohol free

and usually they are a fraction of the price of regular tickets

whats described above sounds fairly typical for a RL game.

I don't think they have family/non alcohol sections at the UK grand final (or wembley?).

Its hard to do in the big stadiums as a block (or a few blocks) of family tickets would have 'normal' seats to both sides and above, which defeats the point a little.

[dallymessenger]

I don't think they have family/non alcohol sections at the UK grand final (or wembley?).

Its hard to do in the big stadiums as a block (or a few blocks) of family tickets would have 'normal' seats to both sides and above, which defeats the point a little.

works well here

usually one whole bay of around 1000 seats is either family or alcohol free

if the rfl dont do it perhaps they should

Edited by dallymessenger, 06 October 2010 - 04:27 AM.

[PC]

works well here

usually one whole bay of around 1000 seats is either family or alcohol free

if the rfl dont do it perhaps they should

Why? You're then giving in to the idiots.

In 2003 I was supporting the Bulls, obviously, but had my tickets in what turned out to be the Wigan section. Simply because I'd bought my tickets in advance regardless. Anyway, I was surrounded by Wigan fans, I stood and cheered every Bulls try and cheered at the end. I got no trouble whatsoever. Looking back, it makes me proud to be a fan of RL.

Unfortunately, you do get a number of idiots come out of the woodwork at finals. People who don't necessarily got to weekly league games, and therefore don't know RL fans are not like that. To the OP, don't let a couple of morons scare of going to finals in future. They are few and far between, but by not attending, you're letting them win. Don't, they're not worth it.

[fieldofclothofgold]

I also get annoyed when i'm trying to concentrate on watching the game and the all day pee heads just want to stand up and organise that tedious mexican wave.
I love a drink after a game ,because i attend a big game ostensibly to watch the game.
Why if they want to drink all day ,cant they do just that on another day and if they are rugby league fans attend the game without inflicting their drunken presence on us.

[Errol Stock]

Welcome to the forum - here are my thoughts...

1. Don't stop posting - you appear capable of presenting well balanced views and you will find a welcome here for that..

2. You are correct in all you say and I too have been in similar situations with my son - but its (partly) down to luck in terms of seat location in relation to those who suffer from these single brain cell disorders. That said - it doesn't mean that its OK for this stuff to continue unaddressed.

3. Re-write your story - but dont post it here - sent it to Richard Lewis at the RFL. Many years ago I wrote regarding the state of junior rugby administration etc. I was invited to meet him and spent an hour discussing the situation. I reckon if you word it right and get the points over - you may well end up there yourself.

Finally - to show the spectrum that perpetrate this behaviour, my sons team played a curtain raiser at McAlpine - GB v Australia. We were seated - parents and children in a group - but surrounded by "Corporate" group. They were ALL so drunk they could barely walk or see. There was no bad language - but they repeatedly had us standing up and down for their frequent journey to the toilets and kept falling onto us and the kids - this for 80 minutes.

Its a problem!

There are some good ideas in this thread - so if you get the invite - take them with you...

Stay with us

[getdownmonkeyman]

It is the fact that RL is a non-segregated game that makes me proud to be a fan. A dedicated family section would be a good idea, although it wouldn't stop people boozing unless it was also made alcohol free, which at Old Trafford would be quite difficult.

It seems this person who was been abusive was looking to wind-up erybody and anybody, which is even more bizzare considereing his age.

Whilst I understand your concerns and that of your children, don't let the idiotic minority although them to dictate your choices of games.

[robygerrard]

Welcome to the forum - here are my thoughts...

1. Don't stop posting - you appear capable of presenting well balanced views and you will find a welcome here for that..

2. You are correct in all you say and I too have been in similar situations with my son - but its (partly) down to luck in terms of seat location in relation to those who suffer from these single brain cell disorders. That said - it doesn't mean that its OK for this stuff to continue unaddressed.

3. Re-write your story - but dont post it here - sent it to Richard Lewis at the RFL. Many years ago I wrote regarding the state of junior rugby administration etc. I was invited to meet him and spent an hour discussing the situation. I reckon if you word it right and get the points over - you may well end up there yourself.

Finally - to show the spectrum that perpetrate this behaviour, my sons team played a curtain raiser at McAlpine - GB v Australia. We were seated - parents and children in a group - but surrounded by "Corporate" group. They were ALL so drunk they could barely walk or see. There was no bad language - but they repeatedly had us standing up and down for their frequent journey to the toilets and kept falling onto us and the kids - this for 80 minutes.

Its a problem!

There are some good ideas in this thread - so if you get the invite - take them with you...

Stay with us

Thanks for all of your welcome, replies & support - I have sent this to the RFL & am waiting their reply.
It's not put me & the lads off going to Saints but they don't want to go to any more Grand Finals (if we get there!) until they're older.
We've had problems with drunks & WUM's in previous years - it's put the wife & in-laws off from going - but this year put the tin hat on it.
Sadly, I'd probably only consider going again if the end was all Saints - not that this would solve all of the problems anyway

[no13benny]

2 kids and 2 adults near me had a great time!

Guess you were just unlucky, as the vast majority of supporters behave well.

You said yourself most were telling these 2 fans to be quiet and behave, who could probably be heard within about 200 people.

Sorry they disrupted your day, but you'll always get 1 or 2 idiots when doing anything in society.

Family section is a good idea as well.

Edited by no13benny, 06 October 2010 - 08:56 AM.

[scotthouston2008]

i know exactly what your saying and your right it's not neccesary, but surely you must realise in a heated environment like that, especially when alcohol is being served, things like colourful language etc is going to happen! i would never take children to a game of rugby for that reason. your not taking them to a church!!!

[Maltese Falcon]

Perhaps your sons wanted to leave because they were embarrassed at their dads reaction?

I'm not condoning the behaviour of the daft old sod from Warrington, but sometimes its better to just ignore these lone voices and what passes for their "banter" - the important thing for you is that your sons recognise that this is not the way to behave at a rugby match (or indeed anywhere else).

I'm also unsure how segregation will solve the issue. In a segregated match between Saints and Wigan, where will the fans from Hull, Bradford, Leeds and (in this case) Warrington sit? Quite possibly right behind you - as sadly he did in this instance.

I do agree that a family zone might work. You can't completely guarantee that no-one will have had a drink in such areas, but you would hope that adults purchasing tickets for such an area would moderate themselves accordingly.

[robygerrard]

i know exactly what your saying and your right it's not neccesary, but surely you must realise in a heated environment like that, especially when alcohol is being served, things like colourful language etc is going to happen! i would never take children to a game of rugby for that reason. your not taking them to a church!!!

The thing is though that the game is marketed by the RFL as a family game where " foul & abusive language will not be tolerated" & tickets were sold at concession prices up to a few days before the game.
As I said in the OP I'm no self-righteous busybody who believes that swearing & alcohol is all bad - I like a pint & a good curse as much as the next person - I was brought up not to swear in front of women & children; maybe I'm old fashioned.
Why should kids be excluded from going to these games - that's not the answer - it's giving in to the morons.
Frustration in a heated environment I can take but I don't want to be subjected to bitter morons whose sole purpose is to goad & wind others up.
I think segregation is the only way unfortunately & even this won't solve all of the problems

[robygerrard]

Perhaps your sons wanted to leave because they were embarrassed at their dads reaction?

I'm not condoning the behaviour of the daft old sod from Warrington, but sometimes its better to just ignore these lone voices and what passes for their "banter" - the important thing for you is that your sons recognise that this is not the way to behave at a rugby match (or indeed anywhere else).

I'm also unsure how segregation will solve the issue. In a segregated match between Saints and Wigan, where will the fans from Hull, Bradford, Leeds and (in this case) Warrington sit? Quite possibly right behind you - as sadly he did in this instance.

I do agree that a family zone might work. You can't completely guarantee that no-one will have had a drink in such areas, but you would hope that adults purchasing tickets for such an area would moderate themselves accordingly.

So being called f***ing St. Helens scum is "banter" - not where I come from mate!
Why is a policeman more concerned that I'm sitting down instead of trying to identify troublemakers - at least the stewards tried to sort it.
I don't think my sons were embarrassed at all - I think they were scared, angry & fed up with the behaviour of the "adults" around them.

[Maltese Falcon]

So being called f***ing St. Helens scum is "banter" - not where I come from mate!
Why is a policeman more concerned that I'm sitting down instead of trying to identify troublemakers - at least the stewards tried to sort it.
I don't think my sons were embarrassed at all - I think they were scared, angry & fed up with the behaviour of the "adults" around them.

Not where I come from either - hence the quotation marks.

If you were stood up and looking angry then the police officer may have mistakenly tagged you as an instigator. The situation had obviously escalated by this point with everyone shouting at each other to shut up. In these circumstances I am not surprised your kids found it intimidating.