183 replies to this topic

[Tommy The C5t]

Anyone else of the same opinion that the Maori side will be stronger than the PNG side we'll face on the 6th November?

I know that the Maori side is like a New Zealand B side but looking at the squad it looks like they'll field a pretty impressive side with loads of top grade experience.

New Zealand Maori : Kevin Locke (Warriors), Sandor Earl (Penrith), Timana Tahu (Parramatta), Clinton Toopi (Gold Coast Titans), Arana Taumata (North Queensland Cowboys), Rangi Chase (Castleford), Jeremy Smith (Wakefield), Willie Heta (Otahuhu), Aaron Heremaia (Warriors), Weller Hauraki (Crusaders), Justin Horo (Parramatta), Bodene Thompson (Gold Coast Titans), Kevin Proctor (Melbourne Storm). Interchange: James Tamou (North Queensland Cowboys), Sam McKendry (Penrith), Russell Packer (Warriors).

Should be the welcome test the England side needs after the game against the Cumbria XIII Sunday gone and I think it's vital that McNamara plays his starting XIII for this game ahead of the Four Nations opener a week on Saturday aganist the Kiwis.

I know that it's a warm up game and that some will argue that the fringe players should get a chance, but IMO we can't afford the embarrassment of looking clueless, having not gelled and fuised as a team in this vital warm up game.

I know that with the right combinations and arguably the best forward pack out of the four sides, we will give it a good shot.

My concern is the backline which is where we will struggle as we lack any real firepower.

I think we'll just have enough to win this game, but the main thing is not the result, but the performance ahead of a testing four nations campaign.

New Zealand Maori 20-28 England with Mount Smart packed.

[steef]

We need to win. Confidence is never our strong point and niether is our ability under preasure. A loos would damage confidence and increase preasureon us from the media over there. I think he should pick more or less a full side, maybe rest a few from the GF to give a few who haven't played for a while a run out, think Sam Tomkins and James Graham and possibley Fielden to rest give Widdop, Griffin a run out.

[Tommy The C5t]

We need to win. Confidence is never our strong point and niether is our ability under preasure. A loos would damage confidence and increase preasureon us from the media over there. I think he should pick more or less a full side, maybe rest a few from the GF to give a few who haven't played for a while a run out, think Sam Tomkins and James Graham and possibley Fielden to rest give Widdop, Griffin a run out.

You are spot on Steef in that a defeat to the Maori would be the ultimate disaster for the confidence of the squad.

This game won't be easy, it'll be a huge test of our mental and physical resolve.

Locke, Earl,Tahu, Toopi, Taumata and Heremaia to name six NRL regulars. It's vital that McNamara plays his starting XIII for this game

[Tommy The C5t]

Don't forget straight after this game New Zealand will face Samoa in the second warm up game of the day.

It's not on Sky Sports but it'll be available over the net

Kick-Off is 07:30am.

[goldcoaster]

For the first time in memory, England have a genuine warm-up game before a tournament.

I think England are certainly capable of downing the Maori, and will have them in terrific stead for their opening tournament match next week.

[thirteenthman]

It'll be a better match in terms of preparation for the 4N than the Wales game last year, but I fully expect England to win and win comfortably. The Moari team isn't quite as strong as I was expecting, however I'm sure they'll be fired up and come out with plenty of passion. As shown in the game against Cumbria, passion is something the England team could do with more of.

[Tommy The C5t]

It'll be a better match in terms of preparation for the 4N than the Wales game last year, but I fully expect England to win and win comfortably. The Moari team isn't quite as strong as I was expecting, however I'm sure they'll be fired up and come out with plenty of passion. As shown in the game against Cumbria, passion is something the England team could do with more of.

I don't know mate it looks pretty strong to me

[Dave T]

People keep commenting on the lack of firepower in the backs, yet let's look at who the backs are likely to be:

1 - Widdop
2 - Briscoe (14 tries, 1 assist)
3 - Shenton (10 tries, 3 assists)
4 - Atkins (11 tries, 13 assists)
5 - Hall (23 tries, 4 assists)
6 - Tomkins (12 tries, 18 assists)
7 - Robinson (4 tries, 15 assists)

The above backline looks a pretty attacking one to me. It may have weaknesses and may be unproven at this level, but they all perform week in week out in SL, and that is all they can do. Let's give them a chance to prove themselves and not write them off before they start.

We also know that we have forwards who can do a good job and we can score tries there.

[Futtocks]

That's a pretty decent Maori team on the whole, and the younger players will be looking to make a good impression on Stephen Kearney.

[petero]

People keep commenting on the lack of firepower in the backs, yet let's look at who the backs are likely to be:

1 - Widdop
2 - Briscoe (14 tries, 1 assist)
3 - Shenton (10 tries, 3 assists)
4 - Atkins (11 tries, 13 assists)
5 - Hall (23 tries, 4 assists)
6 - Tomkins (12 tries, 18 assists)
7 - Robinson (4 tries, 15 assists)

The above backline looks a pretty attacking one to me. It may have weaknesses and may be unproven at this level, but they all perform week in week out in SL, and that is all they can do. Let's give them a chance to prove themselves and not write them off before they start.

We also know that we have forwards who can do a good job and we can score tries there.

Honestly Dave I have a similar opinion to yours but with just a little less exhuberance over the merits that our forwards are having placed upon them by practically everyone.

The W/Cup in 2008 was almost identical to this when all and sundry, yours truly among them, believed that our pack was the equal or better than any and I remember what then transpired. However.


The lad McKendry is one that I expected to see in the NZ side, and Heremiah would also have been in had Leulueai not been called upon, young Locke is not far away and Tamu can still give a good account of himself.
Toopi won no accolades in his time at Leeds but he was once rated the best centre playing and to be honest he has had a pretty good season at the Titans, so there will not be a lack of class in that Maori side at all.

I wrote on another thread that it was a poser for McNamara, who to play. Myself, I would be fielding the strongest side possible as we do need to win or the Aussie fans will be grinning all over again and stating that we are ######, should we lose with a good side out, then frankly they will not be far off the mark either.

It will be a test for our forwards and I hope there is no egg on faces on here after the game. Having watched a great deal of the NRL this season I can honestly state that this notion that we have the best pack is going to be severly tested as both the pack of OZ and the Kiwi's are very good strong and quick and our boys will need to gel soon or they could find an embarrassment awaiting them again.

[Dave T]

Honestly Dave I have a similar opinion to yours but with just a little less exhuberance over the merits that our forwards are having placed upon them by practically everyone.

The W/Cup in 2008 was almost identical to this when all and sundry, yours truly among them, believed that our pack was the equal or better than any and I remember what then transpired. However.


The lad McKendry is one that I expected to see in the NZ side, and Heremiah would also have been in had Leulueai not been called upon, young Locke is not far away and Tamu can still give a good account of himself.
Toopi won no accolades in his time at Leeds but he was once rated the best centre playing and to be honest he has had a pretty good season at the Titans, so there will not be a lack of class in that Maori side at all.

I wrote on another thread that it was a poser for McNamara, who to play. Myself, I would be fielding the strongest side possible as we do need to win or the Aussie fans will be grinning all over again and stating that we are ######, should we lose with a good side out, then frankly they will not be far off the mark either.

It will be a test for our forwards and I hope there is no egg on faces on here after the game. Having watched a great deal of the NRL this season I can honestly state that this notion that we have the best pack is going to be severly tested as both the pack of OZ and the Kiwi's are very good strong and quick and our boys will need to gel soon or they could find an embarrassment awaiting them again.

I agree that people perhaps go a touch over the top in terms of the merits of our forwards, but I personally don't think they will let us down, and there is enough fresh blood in there now for there to be enough drive for them to impress. I wouldn't say that we have the best pack, but we do have a pack that is good enough to hold it's own, especially if the backs can convert some of the chances.

We have discussed in the past about last year's series and the fact that late in the final the Aussie forwards got on top, however I think there was a combination of things which caused this. Firstly Morley took a knock which made him less effective than any other game in that series. Secondly, our backline had a shuffle which allowed the Aussie backs to be ruthless. It is much easier for a set of forwards to make their ground knowing that the backs are there to take plays 4 and 5 and finish them off, getting you a break before your next repeat set. I personally think they were the biggest factors, and the British packs finished better in the group games leading up to the final.

The simple fact is that we have taken tried and tested players over there before and got battered, so these players have nothing to lose, and have a real chance to make a name for themselves over there. Fingers crossed!
I liked last year's series when we put some fresh blood in there and some of them really stepped up and impressed - certainly when compared to som of the so called established stars of the '08 WC. I am excited about seeing the likes of Robinson, Brown, Briscoe, Widdop, Lunt, Griffin being given a run out.

[petero]

I agree that people perhaps go a touch over the top in terms of the merits of our forwards, but I personally don't think they will let us down, and there is enough fresh blood in there now for there to be enough drive for them to impress. I wouldn't say that we have the best pack, but we do have a pack that is good enough to hold it's own, especially if the backs can convert some of the chances.

We have discussed in the past about last year's series and the fact that late in the final the Aussie forwards got on top, however I think there was a combination of things which caused this. Firstly Morley took a knock which made him less effective than any other game in that series. Secondly, our backline had a shuffle which allowed the Aussie backs to be ruthless. It is much easier for a set of forwards to make their ground knowing that the backs are there to take plays 4 and 5 and finish them off, getting you a break before your next repeat set. I personally think they were the biggest factors, and the British packs finished better in the group games leading up to the final.

The simple fact is that we have taken tried and tested players over there before and got battered, so these players have nothing to lose, and have a real chance to make a name for themselves over there. Fingers crossed!
I liked last year's series when we put some fresh blood in there and some of them really stepped up and impressed - certainly when compared to som of the so called established stars of the '08 WC. I am excited about seeing the likes of Robinson, Brown, Briscoe, Widdop, Lunt, Griffin being given a run out.

Last point first: no argument with the new blood, it has to come in sometime why not at this stage. In the play-off game Huddersfield V Saints, I thought that Griffin was far and away the best prop on view and in fact I was not surprised that he was given his opportunity to prove himself. Same for Lunt who I think could, if we progress far enough prove to be a real star.

Briscoe is good enough and I could not understand Smiffy, last season keeping Lee Smith on the field and removing Briscoe at half time, that was a very poor decision. Robbie and Brown are good in S/L, this is a different sphere though. I like Brown a lot, but I do have some reservations over the step-up for both and if the club combi is adhered to...................well....... let's wait and see.

Second point: could not agree more with that especially the one that appertained in the backs, when Shenton went so did Englands outside defence on that side of the field.

First point:Burgess and Ellis have acquited themselves superbly in the NRL and deserve every plaudit they have received but after watching the players who are making up that Aussie pack I would not by any means go shoutinf from any rooftops regarding our pack being superior to either of the two main S/Hemi sides. We will I am certain cope well with PNG but as for NZ and OZ, if we match their packs I will be over the moon, thrash them and I will jump over the bloody thing.

[L Bow]

People keep commenting on the lack of firepower in the backs, yet let's look at who the backs are likely to be:

1 - Widdop
2 - Briscoe (14 tries, 1 assist)
3 - Shenton (10 tries, 3 assists)
4 - Atkins (11 tries, 13 assists)
5 - Hall (23 tries, 4 assists)
6 - Tomkins (12 tries, 18 assists)
7 - Robinson (4 tries, 15 assists)

The above backline looks a pretty attacking one to me. It may have weaknesses and may be unproven at this level, but they all perform week in week out in SL, and that is all they can do. Let's give them a chance to prove themselves and not write them off before they start.

We also know that we have forwards who can do a good job and we can score tries there.

How many tries have any of these players scored against NZ or Aus? That is the only currency that is worth measuring these guys against for the task ahead.

[Dave T]

How many tries have any of these players scored against NZ or Aus? That is the only currency that is worth measuring these guys against for the task ahead.

But we can't measure them on that as many haven't played against them and those that did, did well. That doesn't mean we should write them off in advance.

[petero]

I would not be too jubilant over the fact that Moi Moi is not going to figure for the Kiwi's. The man taking his place ought to have had that in the first instance.

McKendry, the Penrith prop is a real good player and I would say much better than MoiMoi, who is possibly a one/two season wonder and is not at all effective anymore, certainly not for a long spell within a game. On the other hand McKendry is a very workmanlike prop, powerful and skilful with the ball also.

I was surprised that he was not in the initial Kiwi squad and I still wish he had not been included.

[welyn]

Anyone else of the same opinion that the Maori side will be stronger than the PNG side we'll face on the 6th November?

I know that the Maori side is like a New Zealand B side but looking at the squad it looks like they'll field a pretty impressive side with loads of top grade experience.

New Zealand Maori : Kevin Locke (Warriors), Sandor Earl (Penrith), Timana Tahu (Parramatta), Clinton Toopi (Gold Coast Titans), Arana Taumata (North Queensland Cowboys), Rangi Chase (Castleford), Jeremy Smith (Wakefield), Willie Heta (Otahuhu), Aaron Heremaia (Warriors), Weller Hauraki (Crusaders), Justin Horo (Parramatta), Bodene Thompson (Gold Coast Titans), Kevin Proctor (Melbourne Storm). Interchange: James Tamou (North Queensland Cowboys), Sam McKendry (Penrith), Russell Packer (Warriors).

Should be the welcome test the England side needs after the game against the Cumbria XIII Sunday gone and I think it's vital that McNamara plays his starting XIII for this game ahead of the Four Nations opener a week on Saturday aganist the Kiwis.

I know that it's a warm up game and that some will argue that the fringe players should get a chance, but IMO we can't afford the embarrassment of looking clueless, having not gelled and fuised as a team in this vital warm up game.

I know that with the right combinations and arguably the best forward pack out of the four sides, we will give it a good shot.

My concern is the backline which is where we will struggle as we lack any real firepower.

I think we'll just have enough to win this game, but the main thing is not the result, but the performance ahead of a testing four nations campaign.

New Zealand Maori 20-28 England with Mount Smart packed.

[TheObserver]

It's a decent Maori team, which does have the ability to eat England. This will be a close match. As others have said, McKendry is excellent. Furthermore, the Kiwis have also released Warriors utility Lewis Brown to the Maori. He is a great talent, a hooker but can also play back row or centre, works hard and very strong.

Just be thankful the Kiwis' Maori contingent is playing against Samoa:
Hohaia, Nightingale, SKD, Marshall, Leuluai, Eastwood, Luke, Blair, Harrison, Waerea-Hargreaves.

[Tommy The C5t]

It's a decent Maori team, which does have the ability to eat England. This will be a close match. As others have said, McKendry is excellent. Furthermore, the Kiwis have also released Warriors utility Lewis Brown to the Maori. He is a great talent, a hooker but can also play back row or centre, works hard and very strong.

Just be thankful the Kiwis' Maori contingent is playing against Samoa:
Hohaia, Nightingale, SKD, Marshall, Leuluai, Eastwood, Luke, Blair, Harrison, Waerea-Hargreaves.

I for one can't wait to watch that game after the Maori vs England game.

[EastLondonMike]

i think if we're smart we'll get over the Maori... they'll want to smash us in the tackle, we just need to stay focused, take the bumps and work to our game plan..

judging by the video ive just seen on the englandrl website (and on youtube), it looks like westwood will be wearing 13. at least thats what his training top says.. which should be a good indication.

a pack of Morley, Roby, Graham, Burgess, Ellis and Westwood will give any team its fair share of problems in attack and defense.

[West Country Eagle]

Interesting game. Tediously early kick-off - ditto the PNG-England match later in the tournament.

Still, the alarm clock will be set, and V+ in case I sleep through the alarm!