72 replies to this topic

[tim2]

Looks pretty but there is no gangway into Super League so it's failed before it starts.

There's no "open gangway" into the Championship or any of the other levels. They're standards driven. There is entry though, if you meet all the criteria.

Even the Pennine League has been known to turn clubs away.

[bowes]

Even the Pennine League has been known to turn clubs away.

Especially the Pennine League in fact. Doubt the Yorkshire League would turn anyone away ever

[Methven Hornet]

Looks good, the only change I would suggest would be instead of having the National South 1 & 2 Divisions, the short to medium term aim should be a National South (West) and a National South (East) directly below National South. Or Even a Midlands/South split, as long as there's some regionalisation, as we're at least 20 years away from being able to sustain 3 divisions that cover the whole of the country south of the M62.

Just out of interest though, where do Scotland and Wales fit into this structure?

That would seem to make more sense, as I can't see it being that easy for even the strongest clubs in the midlands and south to cope with the organisation and travelling needed, never mind those clubs 1 and 2 steps down.

The more I look at the proposed structure the more I struggle to relate it to the game outside of the 'heartlands'. In some ways it looks the kind of structure any one of us on here could have dreamt up in a spare 5 minutes at work - especially one of us who isn't that familiar with the trials of running a club away from the north.

I know the RFL have been consulting the northern winter clubs about making the switch to summer, and I know the clubs and players have been giving feedback, but have they also been doing the same in the south and midlands? And have the clubs and players been requesting the proposed set-up?

To me part of the presentation of this structure is about the politics of the game. I think, quite understandably, that the RFL wants to unify the game by getting the greater part (or the most important part) of the winter game to join the summer game in playing in the summer. To that end, playing in an integrated 'national pyramid' must appear attractive to a lot of clubs and players and will be a selling point in favour of the switch; and it is definitely feasible - in the north.

Something like the diagram needs to be the long term aim for the game outside of the north, but not necessarily for implementing at this time. It has to be done when the game in those regions is ready for it, not as part of a revolution in the more established parts of the game. Still, everything will come out in the wash, as they say, but I just hope development area clubs are not being pressured into accepting an unsuitable structure that certainly looks good on paper.

[tim2]

The RFL does not want to pump millions of Sport England's money into developing the game for it to be a 10 week Union off season training exercise.

Clubs need a framework in which to operate and must be encouraged to develop within that framework.

[Methven Hornet]

The RFL does not want to pump millions of Sport England's money into developing the game for it to be a 10 week Union off season training exercise.

Clubs need a framework in which to operate and must be encouraged to develop within that framework.

Is it definitely the intention to extend the season? Are the clubs involved okay with this?

[bowes]

Is it definitely the intention to extend the season? Are the clubs involved okay with this?

There's no point investing all this time and money in development and juniors if there's no intention to extend the season. If non-heartlands RL is to forevermore be a filler for RU in the off season it may as well go back to recruiting direct from RU and expats fielding scratch teams with no central handout. I would even say this if it came down to the players at most clubs but not us wanting to give up RU and play a full season as it would be for the good of the sport. Of course I'd be all for us getting players that do want just RL through juniors most likely.

Realistically though I suspect most teams will be playing a short season in 2012 but they'll really push for the National South division to be a full season. They can't push everyone into a full season in 2012 but then again it would show who's in the sport properly so can see even see the case for that

Edited by bowes, 12 October 2010 - 09:30 PM.

[Methven Hornet]

There's no point investing all this time and money in development and juniors if there's no intention to extend the season. If non-heartlands RL is to forevermore be a filler for RU in the off season it may as well go back to recruiting direct from RU and expats fielding scratch teams with no central handout.

Realistically though I suspect most teams will be playing a short season in 2012 but they'll really push for the National South division to be a full season

While I agree with your sentiments that isn't the same thing as them implementing an extended league season. Is it there any indication that it is the RFL's intention to extend the season (certainly Hemel and Nottingham wouldn't want to go backwards)? If so are they going to invest some of Sport England's millions in increasing the number of dedicated rugby league players, or even helping to create new clubs to fill in some of the gaps?

And are the current clubs up for this?

If so then we are in for some interesting times!

[tim2]

While I agree with your sentiments that isn't the same thing as them implementing an extended league season. Is it there any indication that it is the RFL's intention to extend the season (certainly Hemel and Nottingham wouldn't want to go backwards)? If so are they going to invest some of Sport England's millions in increasing the number of dedicated rugby league players, or even helping to create new clubs to fill in some of the gaps?

And are the current clubs up for this?

If so then we are in for some interesting times!

You obviously can't do this overnight - there are issues with players, facilities etc. in expanding the season. In the Midlands most of the people running the key clubs want rugby league to grow and be their players' number one choice of sport. In some cases extending the season may mean going backwards in terms of facilities and playing standards, but at some point the bullet has to be bitten.

[Methven Hornet]

You obviously can't do this overnight - there are issues with players, facilities etc. in expanding the season. In the Midlands most of the people running the key clubs want rugby league to grow and be their players' number one choice of sport. In some cases extending the season may mean going backwards in terms of facilities and playing standards, but at some point the bullet has to be bitten.

Cheers, I really hope it goes well if that is what is planned and that there is plenty of support for the clubs during the transition.

[HappyDave]

I find terms like 'pub standard' RL & 'poor 'Regional' RLCs' really offensive as it seems to be aimed at the likes of the RLC 'South & East' which I think is really disrespectful to all RLC 'Regional' teams.

I know Phil Caplan talks about what's been proposed for teams in the 'West Country' next season (I'm guessing none of our Committees expected to see that in RLW) but I'm still a little worried about 2012 onwards.

[tim2]

I find terms like 'pub standard' RL & 'poor 'Regional' RLCs' really offensive as it seems to be aimed at the likes of the RLC 'South & East' which I think is really disrespectful to all RLC 'Regional' teams.

I know Phil Caplan talks about what's been proposed for teams in the 'West Country' next season (I'm guessing none of our Committees expected to see that in RLW) but I'm still a little worried about 2012 onwards.

Why? Very little will change

[HappyDave]

Why? Very little will change

If that's the case then fair enough.

[MidlandsRugbyLeague]

If that's the case then fair enough.

South West Premier / RLC South West Regional / South West Rugby League / South West RLC League / South West Super League / South West Mickey Mouse League....

Doesnt matter what its called - if its the same clubs competing, then i think Shakespeare had something to say about it??!!

[HappyDave]

I thought the 'South West Region' was Devon & Cornwall in RLC terms...

[MidlandsRugbyLeague]

My point remains the same.

[HappyDave]

I know, I was/am in agreement.

[bowes]

The latest rumour is that if the NCL vote against a switch then the RFL will set up a 12 team National North for the teams that do switch...

[Roy Haggerty]

I find terms like 'pub standard' RL & 'poor 'Regional' RLCs' really offensive as it seems to be aimed at the likes of the RLC 'South & East' which I think is really disrespectful to all RLC 'Regional' teams.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I was merely pointing out that if you take all the current clubs in the RLCP and RLC and form 3 cross-South divisions out of them, then the only teams left would be pub-standard newbies, second teams and occasional ######-up teams. All the current teams would have to be utilised just to fill up 3 divisions.

As I'm now involved again in the management of one of the RLCP and RLC sides, I'm not likely to diss the whole competition !

[MidlandsRugbyLeague]

The latest rumour is that if the NCL vote against a switch then the RFL will set up a 12 team National North for the teams that do switch...

Surely that is what its about - offering the players what they want, not what the administrators decide?!

[bowes]

Surely that is what its about - offering the players what they want, not what the administrators decide?!

Yes I totally agree it's the right decision, but also one that could be a lit fuse for extremists from both sides who want the NCL to be all or nothing