34 replies to this topic

[bearman]

From the North West Evening Mail
http://www.nwemail.c...rerPath=raiders

[Wendall]

Good on em but really are they gonna get in? Only Widnes this time me thinks.

[Bomb Jack]

Barrow need to build a case for 2015 in my opinion.

Upgrade Ground, proper Youth Structure, and get bigger crowds. These would help their bid greatly.

[petero]

Seeing that Wigan are the most Northerly of the Lancastrian clubs it is in Barrow's favour that they can safely be stated to be outside the so-called heartland M62, club syndrome, as they are farther away from that area even than Wrexham.

This geographical situation alone should place them in a very strong position in their bid for S/L status and ought to be given very serious consideration.

With only Wigan, Warrington and Saints contesting Lancashire/Cheshires ( in order to P/Correct) S/L make-up I would be only to happy to see another club from West of the Pennines competing in the S/L.

In these cash strapped times it surely makes much more sense than another Southern French club?
Even though Widnes can have a claim on some grounds the fact that they are smack bang in the middle of the S/lancs/Cheshire conglomeration should count in any final analysis against them.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Good on them but they fail big style on the ground. The lights are not fit for the Championship let alone SL. The Toilets are very poor indeed. And thnk the Stadium is fair bit under 10,000 capacity. The other negative is the Youth setup that saw the U21s (Think it was) fail to fulfill many fixtures this year.
Plus points is they have a money bags Chairman. He is a loose cannon at times however. They also are likely the best chance of North Lancashire/Cumbria having a SL team at the moment as haven and Worky have along way to go to match Barrow on and off the field. I suspect like Fax, Barrow would easily draw crowds of 5,000 except for the odd game like Quins and Catalans.
I would have liked Barrow to be given a crack at SL after last year but the normal sporting way of Champions being promoted has been cast aside in League where Championship teams have to kiss the ###### of the RFL now to get into SL, whilst certain SL teams are badly run and are struggling to keep going and nothing is really said.

[The 4 of Us]

From the North West Evening Mail
http://www.nwemail.c...rerPath=raiders

They're talking a good game and wouldn't expect any less from the Chairman but any club that setting crush barriers in concrete is the start of a Superleague bid have a very long way to go.

Further, if bogs and lights are going to cost £650,000 alone, they need a bit more brass than a £50,000 Sportmatched grant from the council to kick it off.

[Methven Hornet]

So they could bid for a world cup game - see WC stadia thread.

[barrowraiderskid]

Doubt we'll get there 2012 but we'll be putting in a strong bid for 2015

Suppose its already nailed on widnes are going up but no need to be properly arrogant about it by all ready offering super league season tickets to fans before you're in super league.

TBH i can't see why if the likes of Salford, Cas, Wakey dont get their stadiums sorted out then i dont see why they should get in ahead of us. If we were in superleague then we'd probably get similiar crowds, buy better players because of our owner, bring lots of cumbrian talent home e.g Ben Harrison, Ade Gardner, Shaun Lunt ect ect and we would be classed as an " Expansion Club" instead of being 30 miles apart of 7 other clubs.


Very Unlikely but nout wrong with having hope

[The Parksider]

1. They're talking a good game and wouldn't expect any less from the Chairman but any club that setting crush barriers in concrete is the start of a Superleague bid have a very long way to go.

2. Further, if bogs and lights are going to cost £650,000 alone, they need a bit more brass than a £50,000 Sportmatched grant from the council to kick it off.

Agree. If they simply want to keep fan interest high then they will of course rattle on about Superleague but not get round to too much, talking a good bid..

If they seriously want Superleague then the cheque book will have to come out.

So the only thing it boils down to is Mr. Johnson willing to put the serious millions into Barrow?

It always boils down to that.

If the NL operate mainly on a six figure turnover and the SL on a multi seven figure turnover you simply need the money to bridge that gap.

If Des will do that it may not have to be a choice between Barrow and Widnes.

[Padge]

Barrow know they have zero chance, they are just putting in some practice, just as other clubs have done previously.

Putting in an application allows them to find out where they fall down both on critea and in their ability to put forward a bid.

Its a good excersise to go through if they have serious ambitions for the future.

People seem also to get confused with thinking that being a long way from other RL clubs puts you in an expansion area, it isn't just that, you also need to have a large enough population to draw on; who have easy transport links to your ground so that you can justify any future attendance claims.

[Bob8]

Barrow know they have zero chance, they are just putting in some practice, just as other clubs have done previously.

Putting in an application allows them to find out where they fall down both on critea and in their ability to put forward a bid.

Its a good excersise to go through if they have serious ambitions for the future.

People seem also to get confused with thinking that being a long way from other RL clubs puts you in an expansion area, it isn't just that, you also need to have a large enough population to draw on; who have easy transport links to your ground so that you can justify any future attendance claims.

Indeed. I think Parksider was very astute in an earlier post (you are getting praised, Parky), when he classifed clubs into groups the RFL would want.

Self-sufficient first (e.g. Wigan, Hull)
Sugar Daddy expansion clubs getting in new fans (e.g. Cru, Quins)
Sugar Daddy expansion clubs (e.g. Huddersfield)
and then there is the rest.

To be safe a club has to show it is in one fo the top three groups. If he will underwrite for millions, then it can happen, otherwise, it is very doubtful.

[The Parksider]

Indeed. I think Parksider was very astute in an earlier post (you are getting praised, Parky), when he classifed clubs into groups the RFL would want.

Self-sufficient first (e.g. Wigan, Hull)
Sugar Daddy expansion clubs getting in new fans (e.g. Cru, Quins)
Sugar Daddy expansion clubs (e.g. Huddersfield)
and then there is the rest.

To be safe a club has to show it is in one fo the top three groups. If he will underwrite for millions, then it can happen, otherwise, it is very doubtful.

Don't be crawling round me Mr8 or whoever you are? Mr. Judge? Mr. Jury??

Padge is never far wrong and nor are you so as well as the large sums for the drainage, the gound facilities, the flood lights, setting up a youth development system, subsidising a massive wage bill, Mr. Johnson also has to invest in high speed rail links to Carlisle, Worky and Whitehaven and build the Morecambe Bay bridge (Mick W admits this) I am not a quantity surveyor but suspect a £billion may just cover that.

Things are getting so polarised between SL and NL it's a case of "want SL? Have you a few million to spare?", People keep fantasising about their little club (no disrespect) getting in SL often ignoring their clubs lack of money or past failure in the top league.

What keeps the dream alive is when they look at ramshackle grounds at Wakey and Cas and those clubs having to survive on wage bills lower than the cap leading to them bumping along in the "bottom 6", and when they look at clubs such as Salford, Quins and Crusaders, and they basically think "We can underspend on salaries in a rubbish ground on low attendances too so why can't we have a turn". Why not indeed.

In the coming round of franchises those in a ramshackle ground will either go, or get their new stadia, thus leaving the trad NL club fans to only have the options to attack the expansion clubs attendances, and the failure of the RFL to be "good sports" as regards promotion. As much as Crusaders and Quins are the favourite children of the RFL if they were not providing heavy investment they would likely go too.

So next time Mr. Johnson tells us that he is currently investing in setting new crash barriers into the terraces, the more astute local journalist may ask him to what extent in terms of X six figures is he prepared to underwrite the clubs SL bid?

I'm not having a go just facing what I think are the realities and of course Barrow would probably open in SL on a crowd of 5,6,7000 take your pick, but that isn't the point. Attendances still have an ugly correlation between winning and losing, manifesting at Bradford in the most ugliest of ways. Where did Fax's 6,000 and leigh's 5,000 SL crowds go as these clubs progressed to the bottom of SL - lower than a Quins crowd I think and that is worth thinking about.

And that is the other problem. There is a shortage of SL quality players thus those at the bottom of the pile survive on aussie journeymen and cast offs. HKR had the money to invest to (by the skin of their teeth) rise above that and survive, but Widnes will have an equal struggle even with Full cap. Quins apparently pay near to full cap and look where they came???

Both on and off the pitch a Barrow SL bid would be doomed without heavy financial backing. I hope Mr. J. Is financially serious.

[Derwent]

So the only thing it boils down to is Mr. Johnson willing to put the serious millions into Barrow?

He hasn't got serious millions to put in. He is well off, probably a millionaire, but he isn't all that wealthy that he has money to waste. In a fairly recent interview he said he'd put about £300k into Barrow and couldn't afford to do much more and that was why the club had to become self-sustaining. Being a 'sugar daddy' at CC level is one thing, doing it at SL level is quite another.

[no13benny]

The RFL are set to make a decision on which Championship club will receive a licence by March 2011, with a further opportunity after that for clubs to reapply – or newly-qualified clubs to bid – before the 2012 campaign.

Interesting last paragraph, I thought. Not sure if that's accurate, and if it is, what's all this about giving sides mroe time to prepare?

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

The RFL are set to make a decision on which Championship club will receive a licence by March 2011, with a further opportunity after that for clubs to reapply – or newly-qualified clubs to bid – before the 2012 campaign.

Interesting last paragraph, I thought. Not sure if that's accurate, and if it is, what's all this about giving sides mroe time to prepare?

Missed that, as I suspect quite a lot of people did. Could it be there in case a SL club goes belly-up after the initial process is completed so that they can get a replacement in and not be stuck with a 13 team comp?

[The Parksider]

He hasn't got serious millions to put in. He is well off, probably a millionaire, but he isn't all that wealthy that he has money to waste. In a fairly recent interview he said he'd put about £300k into Barrow and couldn't afford to do much more and that was why the club had to become self-sustaining. Being a 'sugar daddy' at CC level is one thing, doing it at SL level is quite another.

Thank you for your input and information. Given that Mr. Johnson has said he's put in £300K into Barrow (Contrast that with the £4.5M Mr. Hughes has put into Quins for the current license - only to come bottom) and can't afford to do much more, then it seems that (unless anyone else has any infornation) the idea Barrow are "going for Superleague" is pretty disingenuous indeed.

That won't stop supporters insisting they have "Earned a right to be in SL" or "We would get at least 5,000 crowds" but that's avoiding the issue, which is does the club want the expense of operating in Superleague???.

Seems to me the message from Barrow is highly ambiguous - kind of Mr. Johnson saying "we are going for Superleague but I won't be funding it, the club has to do that although they can't afford it"........

How that works I don't know???????

[Good Omen]

very little chance of any Cumbrian side being in SL in the next 10 - 15 years IMHO

[shrek]

Barrow know they have zero chance, they are just putting in some practice, just as other clubs have done previously.

I think thats right and I think you can also add the shifting of blame, if you've been invited to apply and don't you become the focus of blame among supporters accused of a lack of ambition etc etc. At least if you slap in an application you can then take the at least we tried defence!

Does sound like there spending a chunk of money of Craven Park though so we can and have talked about licensing till the cows come home but at least it does shift the focus away from the starting 17 to the whole club.

Personally speaking I'd like to see a club in Cumbria, we will reach a point were not every newcomer to Super League can have a millionaire sugar daddy or a local council willing to help fund a state of the art facility. However, subject to meeting criteria on facilities, if an area can demonstrate it is capable of producing players to a Super League standard and can pull in a decent crowd I'd be all for having them in myself, especially under a licensed system were the proximity of your neighboring clubs must have some bearing on decisions.

[Bulletproof]

It is far too early for Barrow. Their stadium would not have been suitable under P & R let alone licensing, and their crowds have yet to shine. I would say there are probably four teams more suitable at this point. All they have going for them is a location far away from any super league teams and yet far away from any significant centres of population and far away from the other teams in cumbria too.

[Methven Hornet]

With all this talk of Barrow applying for SL, and perhaps being the best chance for a Cumbrian SL club, could I ask whether people from Barrow think of themselves as Cumbrians? Or do people generally still think of themselves as being in Lancashire?