57 replies to this topic

[Gruff]

I have just been reading an article about the Aussie Schoolboys and their tour to the UK later this year, and with things being a bit slow on a Fri afternoon I decided to look into the squads of a few years ago to see where the players are now, and its shocking to say the least. Just taking one year as an example, 2006, shows a massive difference in the development from schoolboy/academy into 1st team players, between Aus and Eng.

Firstly, the Australian 17 from the first test, which they won by 14 points after being down at half time;

1. Chris Lawrence – 25 apps for Wests + Aus 4 nations
2. Cameron White
3. Joel Thompson – 15 apps for Canberra, 10 tries
4. Peni Tagne
5. Shannon Walker
6. Chris Sandow – 24 apps for Souths
7. Mitchell Pearce – 22 apps for Roosters
8. Tim Mannah – 23 apps for Eels
9. Joel Brown
10. Tim Robinson
11. David Hala – 1 app for Brisbane
12. Jeremiah Walters
13. Will Mataka – 2 apps for Wests
Interchange
14. Luke Capewell – 6 apps for Souths
15. Aiden Tolman – 19 apps for Storm
16. Will Matthews – 5 apps for GC
17. Jay Aston

10 out of the 17 have played NRL 1st grade this year, with varying success. 5 could be said to be 1st choice players, with 1 representing the national side.

Now lets look at the England side

ENGLAND U18 ACADEMY
1. Ashley Huck
2. Ben Naylor
3. Ryan Fieldhuse
4. Tyrone Dalton
5. James Haynes
6. Luke Sandland
7. Chris Forster
8. Liam Booth
9 Tommy Hodgson
10. Danny Ljazouri
11. Luke Pennington
12. John Young
13. Andy Kay
Interchange
14. John Walker
15. Michael Maxwell
16. Dean Thompson
17. Tony Burns

Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those appear to have stepped up to SL yet, with some playing in the lower leagues and some playing amateur.

4 years ago these two team were on a relative par with one another. Now, if they lined up against one another the scoreline would be embarrassing.

So, why are we so poor at developing these players, and what needs to change? Is it the RFL's fault, the clubs fault, or the players fault?

[Blind side johnny]

Because if they're good enough for the 1st team they get ppicked for the England 1st team shortly after, due to an absence of quality English players in SL. Too many slots being filled by ordinary imports as usual, but who's going to stop it?

[Emosi Koloto]

That listed England team was the GB Amateurs, the majority of the England 2006 squad play in SL and a few have gone on to make the senior England team such as Ben Harrison, Kyle Eastmond and Scott Moore.

[East Coast Tiger]

Yeah, not comparing like with like there. In fact traditionally England Academy players have gone on to play SL far more often than Aussie Schoolboys have gone on to play NRL. The thing about the Aussie Schoolboys is that it's not really the best under 18s team in Australia, it's just the best that go to school and perform well at the various selection carnivals. The England Academy, in theory, should be more able to pick its best side because they play each other over many weeks in the same competition. Also it's pretty fair to say there's more competition for NRL places from the number of juniors involved in the NRL system, and also lots of Kiwis in the mix. Although there are probably more opportunities too with an extra couple of clubs and a bigger turnover of players. That Aussie Schoolboys side has a much higher conversion rate than most in the past. Quite an exceptional one actually. You can add Shannon Walker as an NRL first grader too.

[East Coast Tiger]

Oh and I think the centre should be Peni Tagive so that would make 12 out of 17 that have played NRL which is an incredibly high ratio.

[The Future is League]

The problem for me remains in British Rugby League is the fact that some clubs are still looking for the short term solution by bringing in very average imports instead of looking at the long term soloution by blooding young British talent. with no relegation some clubs need to do a lot more on producing British talent, after all we have been playing Rugby League in this country for 115 years surely we have had enough time to sort out proper junior development.

[hindle xiii]

The problem for me remains in British Rugby League is the fact that some clubs are still looking for the short term solution by bringing in very average imports instead of looking at the long term soloution by blooding young British talent. with no relegation some clubs need to do a lot more on producing British talent, after all we have been playing Rugby League in this country for 115 years surely we have had enough time to sort out proper junior development.

Agreed.

Even if the OP had daft examples.

[Emosi Koloto]

Israel Folau was one of the centres in the tests v England Academy, Tim Mannah and Kevin Proctor were also in the starting lineup

[Gruff]

They are not daft examples though. In 2006 you had 17 young english take on 17 young Aussies, and did well, losing by a couple of tries only, after leading. 4 years later 12 of the Aussies are NRL players, one is in the Aus squad, and a couple more will be in the future, yet none of the English are SL players never mind pushing for full international.

So what has happened in the 4 years?

[hindle xiii]

They are not daft examples though. In 2006 you had 17 young english take on 17 young Aussies, and did well, losing by a couple of tries only, after leading. 4 years later 12 of the Aussies are NRL players, one is in the Aus squad, and a couple more will be in the future, yet none of the English are SL players never mind pushing for full international.

So what has happened in the 4 years?

But someone pointed out they were England amatuers...

[hindle xiii]

England academy squad 2006:
Luke Adamson, Kevin Penny, Chris Riley, Luke Gale, Danny Colquitt, Scott Moore, Stephan Bannister, Craig Hall, Paul Clough, Dean McGilvray, Anthony Rourke, Adam Sidlow, Darrell Goulding, Ben Harrison, Chris Hill, Ben Kavanagh, Tommy Lee, Sean Gleeson, Ryan Boyle, Robert Draper, Joe Walsh.

bottom of page.

[ArmchairRhino]

what's the itinerary for this year's tour?

[Wendall]

England academy squad 2006:
Luke Adamson, Kevin Penny, Chris Riley, Luke Gale, Danny Colquitt, Scott Moore, Stephan Bannister, Craig Hall, Paul Clough, Dean McGilvray, Anthony Rourke, Adam Sidlow, Darrell Goulding, Ben Harrison, Chris Hill, Ben Kavanagh, Tommy Lee, Sean Gleeson, Ryan Boyle, Robert Draper, Joe Walsh.

bottom of page.

Players like Kevin Penny are an example of poor player development. Penny looked a world beater in the making a few years ago yet compare his development to a less talented player like Riley.

My theory is that they (coaches) are not giving players enough chances and need to ensure players can reach their potential and not many players seem to stay on track.

[Adeybull]

Players like Kevin Penny are an example of poor player development. Penny looked a world beater in the making a few years ago yet compare his development to a less talented player like Riley.

My theory is that they (coaches) are not giving players enough chances and need to ensure players can reach their potential and not many players seem to stay on track.

Funnily enough, a few months ago I was in a discussion with some professionals very well placed to both comment and to have a reasonable knowledge of the facts.

Regarding Penny, their view was that is was indeed the fault of the coaching. For pushing him into harms way in the first team as a regular too early. Ultimately wrecked his confidence after continually being targeted by the oppositions' big/tough guys.

I recall Brian Noble once, in a talk, giving examples of players where exactly the same had happened. Ruined them for life.

I think I'll go with the professionals.

[ParisSurtout]

Funnily enough, a few months ago I was in a discussion with some professionals very well placed to both comment and to have a reasonable knowledge of the facts.

Regarding Penny, their view was that is was indeed the fault of the coaching. For pushing him into harms way in the first team as a regular too early. Ultimately wrecked his confidence after continually being targeted by the oppositions' big/tough guys.

I recall Brian Noble once, in a talk, giving examples of players where exactly the same had happened. Ruined them for life.

I think I'll go with the professionals.

Which coach was that?

[Steve May]

Which coach was that?

Must have been Paul Cullen.

I have heard similar things said about Kevin Brown at Wigan as well.

[Millman]

Must have been Paul Cullen.

I have heard similar things said about Kevin Brown at Wigan as well.

Kevin Brown is never near harms way. He waits until there are a bevvy of bigger boys around before he gets aggressive and mouthy.

[humpy]

I think it comes down to the coaching, I moved to Australia 2 years ago and got in touch with my local club and asked if I could help coach one of the sides. I was given the assistant's job of Under 16's at Darius Boyds old club Mudgeeraba Redbacks on the Gold Coast. They offered to pay for me to do my Level 1 International all in my first weeks training. I did my course and learnt so many new things that day, Ive played rugby for 20 years and reached a good level, played for County and Country as well as local pro club. We got shown how to properly pack a scrum so that it wont collapse, I've nearly always played in the forwards and never been shown this. We got shown how to kick properly, and many more basic things which you take for granted as a player. I learnt a lot during the season, and was amzed how well the club was run and all the support they offered to coaches. The club held monthly coaching meetings, sent weekly emails with drills, advice etc. The club has 30 sides from 6-17's, and some local sides have more than that. The club has several coaches with NRL experience helping show the kids the right way, one is a legend to Parramatta fans. I've helped coach the Under 6's this year as my son plays in that age group, the things they teach kids at that age is unreal, they teach them to catch the ball with hands in front of there chest and not drag the ball to the chest to speed up the follow on pass. I was gobsmacked that they teach that at such an early age. My mate plays in Super League and has done for over 10 years and he was 20 yrs old when he got taught that properly. I told him what happens here and his answer was " no wonder there miles in front of us " and I think he is right. I know Rugby League over here is more popular and is basically a religion on the East Coast but a few basics applied early on in a career go a long way.

[hindle xiii]

I think it comes down to the coaching, I moved to Australia 2 years ago and got in touch with my local club and asked if I could help coach one of the sides. I was given the assistant's job of Under 16's at Darius Boyds old club Mudgeeraba Redbacks on the Gold Coast. They offered to pay for me to do my Level 1 International all in my first weeks training. I did my course and learnt so many new things that day, Ive played rugby for 20 years and reached a good level, played for County and Country as well as local pro club. We got shown how to properly pack a scrum so that it wont collapse, I've nearly always played in the forwards and never been shown this. We got shown how to kick properly, and many more basic things which you take for granted as a player. I learnt a lot during the season, and was amzed how well the club was run and all the support they offered to coaches. The club held monthly coaching meetings, sent weekly emails with drills, advice etc. The club has 30 sides from 6-17's, and some local sides have more than that. The club has several coaches with NRL experience helping show the kids the right way, one is a legend to Parramatta fans. I've helped coach the Under 6's this year as my son plays in that age group, the things they teach kids at that age is unreal, they teach them to catch the ball with hands in front of there chest and not drag the ball to the chest to speed up the follow on pass. I was gobsmacked that they teach that at such an early age. My mate plays in Super League and has done for over 10 years and he was 20 yrs old when he got taught that properly. I told him what happens here and his answer was " no wonder there miles in front of us " and I think he is right. I know Rugby League over here is more popular and is basically a religion on the East Coast but a few basics applied early on in a career go a long way.

Judas.










(edit; on a serious note, why not forward this information with a similar message to the one above onto someone responsible at the RFL/BARLA, whoever needs it. Open their eyes, be an insider for us! Help us out!)

Edited by hindle xiii, 17 October 2010 - 11:51 AM.

[humpy]

If anyone is involved with coaching at a club, get em to subscribe to this website, its called RLCM.com.au. It costs 40 dollars a month from overseas. When you first subscribe you get a pile of coaching drills, exercises. Plenty of reading material. Has hundreds of ideas in there, they also send you DVD's every month with more drills and clips from coaching experts. I subscribe personally but most clubs in Aus get all this reference material. Wayne Bennett promotes it as well as many more top level coaches. I got talking to the guy who runs it and he says he sends a few of these to UK, Ray Unsworth, Damian Mcgrath, Ryan Sheridan were some of the names that I can remember.

Did you know that most of the coaching structures which UK coaches do on there courses were set up by David Waite, with a bit of help from Ray Unsworth.

Edited by humpy, 17 October 2010 - 12:01 PM.