406 replies to this topic

[Tommy The C5t]

After the poor last twenty five minutes of the game against the New Zealand Maori Saturday gone at Mount Smart stadium, where IMO we we're lucky to escape with a draw, McNamara now has six days to look at the tape and find out what worked well and what didn't.

After watching the replay of yesterdays game, I feel that Widdop (despite the criticism from some posters) offers us a threat when being brought into the attacking line and for the first fifty minutes of the game looked positionally solid at full back.

Shenton didn't really do anything (again) but he's a better player than Gleeson and I think we're all waiting for his moment of magic which I hope arrives in this game.

Kevin Brown is not good enough I'm afraid so I would play Robbinson and Sam Tomkins in the halfs although my concern about Tomkins in this position is that for a good 80% of the Super League season he's played at full back for Wigan and has orchestrated some super tries from this position (see the 70m wonder score vs Huddersfield and try vs Leeds in the play-off game).

I wasn't happy with Roby and his lack of ability to get a clean pass out in time, so maybe we could look at using Luke Robbinson in this position?

But I would drop Roby to bench and use him as a impact sub, while promoting Lunt to the starting XIII.

With Morley potentially out for the rest of the Four Nations with a ruptured bicep, I wouldn't hesitate to start with Graham and Burgess as the starting props with Crabtree and Fielden on the bench.

I think Crabtree stood out today with some good damaging runs, making good yards so gets the nod on the bench over Griffin.

My side for the New Zealand game would be this:


Widdop
Briscoe
Shenton
Atkins
Hall
S Tomkins
Robinson
Graham
Lunt
Ellis
Westwood
Burgess
O'Loughlin


Roby
Crabtree
Fielden
J Tomkins

How does everyone see the first game of the Four Nations going?

I think we'll give a good opening first forty before running out of gas and going down by about 10-16 points.

Edited by Tommy The C5t, 17 October 2010 - 12:05 AM.

[Tommy The C5t]

Just to remind everyone the BBC coverage starts at 7:30am with the kick off at 8:00am so at least we get a few extra hours in bed this week.

[dallymessenger]

NZ by 10 plus.

Nz with a good chance to win this tournament.

it will be closer than the scores yesterday would indicate

[East Coast Tiger]

If fullback and five-eighth are such a worry for England yet they have Tomkins who has played fullback all year and Widdop who has been playing five-eighth for Melbourne u20s and will play first grade there in 2011, why wouldn't they play them in those positions and use Robinson in his natural halfback position? Whatever happens Tomkins has to be fullback unless they have absolutely no halfback options.

[East Coast Tiger]

Morley is definitely out now too.

Edited by East Coast Tiger, 17 October 2010 - 06:06 AM.

[CoogeeLoiner]

NZ by 30 unfortunately.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Jut to be awkward, England by 12.

[AndyCapp]

New Zealand by 35.
Unless the best pack in the World Fires up, in that case New Zealand by 29.

Edited by AndyCapp, 17 October 2010 - 09:05 AM.

[EastLondonMike]

think it will be pretty much the same team, with fielden and graham in to start in the front row.

think Widdop did well for a player who probably hasnt played for 5 or 6 weeks (although i stand to be corrected), and will be a whole lot sharper next week, although i dont think he was bad at all in the maori game.

shenton needs space and gaps to run into. but think he'll be as reliable as anyone in defense.

tomkins and robinson in the halves.

would keep roby in the starting line up and have lunt of the bench.

tom briscoe will have his hands full with big manu, but needs to try and cause him as many problems as possible.

[petero]

After the poor last twenty five minutes of the game against the New Zealand Maori Saturday gone at Mount Smart stadium, where IMO we we're lucky to escape with a draw, McNamara now has six days to look at the tape and find out what worked well and what didn't.

After watching the replay of yesterdays game, I feel that Widdop (despite the criticism from some posters) offers us a threat when being brought into the attacking line and for the first fifty minutes of the game looked positionally solid at full back.

Shenton didn't really do anything (again) but he's a better player than Gleeson and I think we're all waiting for his moment of magic which I hope arrives in this game.

Kevin Brown is not good enough I'm afraid so I would play Robbinson and Sam Tomkins in the halfs although my concern about Tomkins in this position is that for a good 80% of the Super League season he's played at full back for Wigan and has orchestrated some super tries from this position (see the 70m wonder score vs Huddersfield and try vs Leeds in the play-off game).

I wasn't happy with Roby and his lack of ability to get a clean pass out in time, so maybe we could look at using Luke Robbinson in this position?

But I would drop Roby to bench and use him as a impact sub, while promoting Lunt to the starting XIII.

With Morley potentially out for the rest of the Four Nations with a ruptured bicep, I wouldn't hesitate to start with Graham and Burgess as the starting props with Crabtree and Fielden on the bench.

I think Crabtree stood out today with some good damaging runs, making good yards so gets the nod on the bench over Griffin.

My side for the New Zealand game would be this:


Widdop
Briscoe
Shenton
Atkins
Hall
S Tomkins
Robinson
Graham
Lunt
Ellis
Westwood
Burgess
O'Loughlin


Roby
Crabtree
Fielden
J Tomkins

How does everyone see the first game of the Four Nations going?

I think we'll give a good opening first forty before running out of gas and going down by about 10-16 points.

I would be happy with that side apart from one positional change which I find quite unbelievable, namely Ellis at prop! Also I would make one other name change in the backs.

Surely Burgess is the more natural prop of the two and has played in that position at this level previously also, whereas to my knowledge apart from a rushed packing down job Ellis has not played a game from that position: ever?

Roby has to be coming on for impact, thats his game and the style that suits his play the best. But obviously McNamara believes differently!

I cannot see what Hall has to recommend him, he was pathetic in last season's comp and only looked half competent V the French. Goulden got better and better as the season went on and ought to be given his chance, at worst he can only be an improvement on a sub-standard individual who should not even have been on the plane.
Ok Hall has 23 tries at Leeds but the criteria to judge him by would be to imagine how many he would have got at say Crusaders or Wakefield................my guess isn't many.

Anyway the result. I will be surprised (happily) if we get within 25 to 30 points and do not perform in the manner we did in 2008 down there.

PS having noted McNamaras " we are going to have a fun five weeks comment " really he did state that!
I believe that intensive training would be of more help to the sides chances than a bit of white water rafting, America's cup Yacht trips and the likewise, but quite honestly that agenda does not surprise me one bit.

[hindle xiii]

Even though I don't think it will be needed, it's nice to have the option of a draw.

[hindle xiii]

PS having noted McNamaras " we are going to have a fun five weeks comment " really he did state that!
I believe that intensive training would be of more help to the sides chances than a bit of white water rafting, America's cup Yacht trips and the likewise, but quite honestly that agenda does not surprise me one bit.

BBC article by Dave Woods

But it is the spirit in the camp being engendered by McNamara that is the most encouraging aspect of this tour.

Even before they set off, the talk was about "enjoyment" and "having fun". They have plenty of extra-curricular activities planned to ensure that happens.

You cannot expect young men to go away from home for six weeks, leaving families and close friends, and expect them to live a monastic lifestyle, only escaping boring hotel rooms to train before attempting to produce some magic on the pitch.

The approach this time is fresh - and so are many of the faces.

It might turn out to be the old familiar story of disappointment down under. Then again, this lot may just surprise a few.

[hindle xiii]

From the Maori thread;

1. Sam Tomkins
2. Darrell Goulding
3. Michael Shenton, with a kick up the backside
4. Ryan Atkins, with some balls this time
5. Tom Briscoe
6. Gareth Widdop,
7. Luke Robinson
8. Stuart Fielden
9. Shaun Lunt
10. James Graham
11. Gareth Ellis
12. Sam Burgess
13. Sean O'Loughlin

14. James Roby
15. Eorl Crabtree
16. Ben Westwood
17. Darrell Griffin

[West Country Eagle]

Can't say I'm too hopeful of an England win, but we'll see. It would be nice to see a strong performance down under for once - or, ideally, three or four. I still have nightmares about being in Melbourne for the 2008 WC game… and the games against the Kiwis weren't too smart either.

In some ways, the fact that we have so many inuries and aren't fancied is a good thing. The squad has a fresh look - they might not be good enough, but it'll be interesting to see how they get on.

Hopefully S Tomkins will be fit. He genuinely looks like a game-changer.

Biggest worry is the lack of organisation at half back/hooker. And our kicking game, which was poor against the Maoris.

[Tommy The C5t]

Can't say I'm too hopeful of an England win, but we'll see. It would be nice to see a strong performance down under for once - or, ideally, three or four. I still have nightmares about being in Melbourne for the 2008 WC game… and the games against the Kiwis weren't too smart either.

In some ways, the fact that we have so many inuries and aren't fancied is a good thing. The squad has a fresh look - they might not be good enough, but it'll be interesting to see how they get on.

Hopefully S Tomkins will be fit. He genuinely looks like a game-changer.

Biggest worry is the lack of organisation at half back/hooker. And our kicking game, which was poor against the Maoris.

I still can't watch the 2000 Rugby League World Cup dvd review because of the sheer embarrassment we suffered at the Reebok that wet Saturday afternoon. 49-6

[Tommy The C5t]

Even though I don't think it will be needed, it's nice to have the option of a draw.

Andrew I'll put everything I own that at full time on Saturday it's not a draw

[Maximus Decimus]

NZ by around 20.

The second half showed a lot about how we will we struggle on this tour. We can't cope with their footwork, offloads and our kicking game is dire.

In contrast this is one of the best kiwi squads they've had available for a while.

[EastLondonMike]

am gonna go for:

widdop
briscoe
shenton
atkins
hall
tomkins
robinson
fielden
lunt
graham
ellis
burgess
o'loughlin

crabtree
westwood
roby
tomkins

think hall and briscoe are better suited to taking on vatuvei (whoever marks him) than either of goulding or cudjoe

was tempted to put brown on the bench, but think we'll need the extra forward.

NZ by 12 (sadly)

[bobbruce]

The team I'd go with is this

1/ Widdop
2/ Briscoe
3/ Shenton
4/ Atkins
5/ Goulding
6/ Tomkins
7/ Robinson
8/ Graham
9/ Lunt
10/Fielden
11/Burgess
12/Ellis
13/O'Loughlin

14/Roby
15/Crabtree
16/Westwood
17/Griffin

[Tommy The C5t]

am gonna go for:

widdop
briscoe
shenton
atkins
hall
tomkins
robinson
fielden
lunt
graham
ellis
burgess
o'loughlin

crabtree
westwood
roby
tomkins

think hall and briscoe are better suited to taking on vatuvei (whoever marks him) than either of goulding or cudjoe

was tempted to put brown on the bench, but think we'll need the extra forward.
NZ by 12 (sadly)

Same here as it's going to physical from the off, hence why we need three forwards on the bench.