27 replies to this topic

[ParisSurtout]

The RFL does not want to limit development of English players. So rules on home grown or Federation trained players in each SL club should be adhered to.

But instead of importing so many Australians, why don't we incentivise the development of rugby league in PNG and Fiji by exempting the PNG and Fijian imports from the SL salary cap?

This will mean that the SL clubs will still go after NRL stars like Matt King, Matt Gidley, Danny Buderus, Craig Fitzgibbon, Clint Greenshields and Brett Hodgson. But it will make the clubs think twice about importing players not of that calibre if they can get talent from PNG and Fiji. Having their own talent scouts roaming PNG and Fiji will be profitable expenditures for SL clubs. But the rule should be "born and now living in PNG or Fiji," not "PNG or Fijian ancestry," which a rort that the KOLPAK rules foist on the SL competition.

I single out PNG and Fiji (but not Tonga and Samoa) because the first has tens of thousands of players who never get proper coaching, conditioning, or even decent nutrition, and the second has thousands of superb speedy and muscular athletes who are being lured to rugby union when they are more suited to rugby league.

These incentives will develop a new generation of professional rugby league players from the South Pacific who could help make the World Cups more interesting and competitive.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 18 October 2010 - 07:08 PM.

[ParisSurtout]

Just for the record. look at this possible roster of Fijian players in the NRL, Super League and the Championship, who if tempted to declare themselves for Fiji in 2013, could make Fiji even more exciting and successful than it was in 2008:

Jarryd Hayne

Akuila Uate, Darrel Millard, Kevin Naiqama, Lote Tuquiri,

Wes Naiqama
Aaron Groom

Petero Civoniceva

Wiith that talent and experience incorporated -- and I think that by 2013 both Petero (37) and Lote (34), in their final years as players, will have been passed over by Australian selectors -- then several Fijian fowards and a centre trained in SL added to this group could make up a very powerful team to contend with.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 18 October 2010 - 08:12 PM.

[MrPosh]

I would be prepared to give players from both countries an exemption, as long as they haven't ever lived or played in Australia or New Zealand.

We should do everything we can to encourage these countries - and we could always nationalise the good one, just like the Aussies do.

[ParisSurtout]

The important point about the current residency criterion that I have specified is that such players, now living in poverty, could be brought over to England for a relatively small contract, and put in the SL club squad. Those that blossom could be elevated to the top 17. At that point many of them will get an agent, and start demanding more money, but for most clubs that won't be a problem because they won't be running up against a salary cap.

I would ensure that the recruitment policy involves recruiting in at least twos, because of adjustment problems. Two will give each other emotional support in what will initially be a very strange new environment. But that should not be a problem for the SL clubs because there is so much talent in both PNG and Fiji waiting to be recruited, the SL club's problem will be choosing whom of so many prospects to recruit, I would imagine.

[HappyDave]

Are you discrediting the PNG'ns who play in the Co-op Championship? If they exempt them from the SL salary cap should they help them out in the semi-pro ranks too?

Edited by HappyDave, 18 October 2010 - 08:13 PM.

[ParisSurtout]

Are you discrediting the PNG'ns who play in the Co-op Championship? If they exempt them from the SL salary cap should they help them out in the semi-pro ranks too?

No, I am not trying to discredit the PNG players in the Championship. You make a very good point.

So now I would argue that we should exempt them from the salary cap too. It makes just as much sense, perhaps more, for the Championship, where the salary cap is so low.

Though the standards of coaching, training and conditioning and nutrition are so much lower in the Championship than in Super League, they are incomparably higher than what these players would experience in PNG or Fiji. So by having them play in the Championship we improve them as players. The best players will eventually be recruited from the Championship to Super League.

The only problem is that the Championship clubs could not afford recruiters to go to PNG or Fiji. They would depend on either (1) picking players from the PNG or Fiji national teams, whom they watch in the Four Nations or on touring teams (2) the recommendations of SL recruiters, who may not have a place for a particular player. It would mean closer ties between Championship club coaches and CEOs and the SL clubs, which is not a bad thing.

This leads me to think that we also ought to have RLIF funds for PNG and Fiji team tours of the UK and France more often. PNG and Fiji could play France and Wales, and maybe also England. It will do the game a lot of good in those Pacific countries, and give the UK clubs at both levels more chance to recruit the talented novices from these countries.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 18 October 2010 - 09:05 PM.

[hindle xiii]

I dunno much about these things, but will such players be able to obtain visas?

[ParisSurtout]

I dunno much about these things, but will such players be able to obtain visas?

You have raised a very important question that I do not know the answer to.

Does anyone else on this forum know the answer?

[HappyDave]

Did the PNG guys who play for 'Fax play in the RLWC? How did they find out about them? No-one want to land Co-op Championship clubs in financial trouble so is there any way the RLIF or RFL (or likwise the ARL/NRL commission with the Aussie semi-pro/youth teams (Toyota Cup?)) able to help Kumul (?)/Fijian players out if possible?

[steef]

Clearly there are a few issues with this, ie visas etc but overall a good idea. Can we have English players exempt from the NRL cap while we're at it?

[RP London]

To be honest.. surely its australasia's job to sort out the south pacific and Europes job to sort out... er europe.. there is the sam arguemtn surely for non english/french players around the place that are falling into the "other code" becuase league cannot help them and they would develop their national teams just as much, good european competitions at international level (look at the 6 nationas union) would help with coverage and awareness etc etc etc

the NRL should be encouraged to do this while not being allowed to steal the players for Australia/New Zealand once they have been developed, while Super League Europe helps the Europeans, i wouldnt have a huge issue with that, but i would with PNG and Fijians to be honest.

[goldcoaster]

England should worry about getting it's own house in order before helping other nations. England hasn't won a series involving Australia for 40 years. Much of that is down to young local players overlooked in ESL squads by foreign imports.

The last thing the game in England needs is more foreigners. Leave it to the NRL to promote developing nations players, and let England develop it's own talent.

[bewareshadows]

Have to agree here.

There are huge area's of the homeland to develop before we start looking at other countries never mind countries on the other side of the world.

I'm not saying abandon them, but that's what the international RL federation is for.

Once the RFL has got the home nations developed then it can start looking to europe.
Looking to develop the otherside of the world before we have our own back yard sorted seams to be a bit daft. Any way it's not like there are no island players in SL.

We have had quite a few over the years and every world cup seams to expose new talent, which gets snapped up by SL or championship sides.

If any one should be except from the salary cap it should be homegrown talent. Once we have the best in the world playing for GB/England/homenations then we can think about improving others standards. At the moment ENgland may struggle to beat a PNG or Fiji side. Just look at England v the Mauries

Edited by bewareshadows, 19 October 2010 - 08:32 AM.

[West Country Eagle]

Leave it to the NRL to promote developing nations players so they can steal them and play them in Origin/for the Kangaroos, and let England develop it's own talent.

Edited for accuracy.

[goldcoaster]

Edited for accuracy.

Haha. Very true mate.

[Blind side johnny]

Does PST actually understand what the salary cap is for?

[jim_57]

double

Edited by jim_57, 19 October 2010 - 01:32 PM.

[jim_57]

It's a good idea IMO, although I think PNG should be being helped by the southern hemisphere's power houses. There are some good signs of late with talk Queensland NRL sides will be taking on a few PNG players in years to come. I've though a fair bit about it recently and posted this in another forum:

I've said it before, the fact there's only a handful of PNG players at NRL clubs is laughable. 6 Million people, all RL nuts and yet there are few just over the sea in Australia. Smacks of laziness really, I know there are VISA issues but surely not to the extent where NRL clubs have an excuse not to even look over there.

I'd like to hear some idea's on how to improve the PNG national team and embrace the country as RL fans, Australia could be helping them a lot more with not much effort IMO.

A few ideas of my own:
A QLD Cup side - PNG Vipers
An annual U-16,18 & 20 trial to bring the best juniors together, NRL scouts will be there because:
The introduction of a quota of atleast 2 PNG born players for every NRL team's Toyota Cup Squad.
Salary Cap concessions for current PNG Internationals
The Introduction of a "Kokoda Cup", a 3 team mid-season tournament with Australia and NZ.
The QLD Cup team should be aiming for entry ASAP IMO, hopefully atleast by the next World Cup. This would create a team for PNG's best domestic players to strut their stuff, it would also by enormously well supported obviously. If the team can be sucessful it is a big ticked box for an NRL bid down the line.

The introductions of the Toyota Cup quota would be a long term development but if it's stuck with it will pay huge dividends in 5-10 years. Out of squads of 25, 2 really isn't that many and can't see why clubs couldn't/wouldn't go for more ocassionally. The best juniors in the country can all be gathered for a tournament/festival and NRL scouts can work from there.

The Salary Cap concessions would allow clubs to hopefully look at more and ones that have some already get rewarded. Not suggesting it be much, just enough to encourage players to stick with a developing national team.

The Kokoda Cup wouldn't be too hard to set up IMO, if Origin went to stand-alone weekends it would make it alot easier to have NZ V PNG on the same weekend as the first origin, then it's just a matter of finding a weekend for Aus V PNG. Ideally if origin went to stand-alone weekends a Pacific Cup could also be played with the final at the end of season. When PNG get a new stadium it would be great to have the tournament as 1home, 1 away per team. Australia play in PNG, NZ play in Australia and PNG play in NZ, the just shuffle it the next year.

Week 1
Origin 1
NZ V PNG (Kokoda Cup)
Tonga V Samoa (Pacific Cup 4V5)
Week 2
Origin 2
PNG V Tonga (Pacific Cup 1V4)
Fiji V Cook Islands (Pacific Cup 2V3)
Week 3
Origin 3
NZ V Pacific Islands (Tonga, Samoa, Fiji & Cook Is.)
Anyway those are just a few ideas I think could do a world of good. If I'm being realistic an NRL team is a long way off. The NRL should set a list of goals for the PNG bid and say in the meantime we'll help by doing this, this and this...

Two things people complain about are lack of player depth in the NRL and the lack of a 4th genuine competitor on International level, well if done correctly PNG could very well be the answer to both of those problems.

[ParisSurtout]

England should worry about getting it's own house in order before helping other nations. England hasn't won a series involving Australia for 40 years. Much of that is down to young local players overlooked in ESL squads by foreign imports.

The last thing the game in England needs is more foreigners. Leave it to the NRL to promote developing nations players, and let England develop it's own talent.

If you read my original post you will see that I am insisting on keeping the numbers of "Federation trained players" rules in place for players at each club. These will ensure that English development is the highest priority.

If you read my original post I said that this could be a way to replace non-star quality Aussies and Kiwis, with up and coming PNG and Fijians in the small number of foreign quota spots.

So my proposal will not impede English player development.

[thirteenthman]

Have to agree with many other posters on here - we need to sort out developing our own players first before we worry about players from PNG and Fiji. We need to reduce the numbers of overseas players in this country regardless of where they're from.