31 replies to this topic

[Robin Evans]

Rugby Union is more or less a game for playing as all shapes and sizes can play it. You get the tall ones in the second row and the rotund ones in the front row and the little ones at half back and so on. In league, every player can now be same shape and size as it is now a game for athletes rather than rugby players. By rugby players I mean players who can make a ball talk as in the 1950's and 60's. Before everybody writes in, it is my opinion and I know which version I prefer, the old one as teams in mid table had players with more skill in their little fingers than most of todays athletes. I have watched league for 50 odd years but I ended up playing Union because I went to a grammar school but have played some league games also.

We have a similar background and opinion gabby.
Coming from a soccer region where rugby of either code was almost alien, I was lucky enough to go to what was then, Wath Grammar School! A big tall lad with some weight I was never going to get a game of that soccer thingy that everyone was after playing. So cometh games lessons and they chuck a rugby ball at me and showed me where a big lad could get a game along side all the fast lads! What a sport! Brilliant.
Then of course I saw the league game and that changed y whole outlook.
Did you see the history of the north on BBC4 in Sept? Rugby league at it's best played with skills by ball handlers, big props and backs with pace and creativity. It looked awesome and evoke some passionate memories.
Union has improved no end in recent years. League's committment to athleticism as you point out, in my opinion, has done it no favours.

[RobinHoodHawk]

Being a veteran of both games I can see the benefits in each - I played my last game of rugby union at 42 - I doubt I could have got away with it at League due to fitness techniques etc.

I do venture to watch Leeds Carnegie play occasionally as it is quite a spectacle being stood below pitch level when a 6'6 flanker is lifting a 6'8 second rower up at a line out! and having had much of my heducation (!) through Leeds Poly and Leeds Met so showing a loyalty there.

My point is that I would still pay good money to watch the old masters/ craftsmen with their tremendous ball handling skills. I can name many names - Wolford, Johnson, Reilly, Hobbs etc - even of late Danny Fearon as they are the real craftsmen that have been 'lowered' by the advent of the 'one shape fits all sizes' Super League type athlete.

We still see the fantastic kickers and it is still a pleasure to be admired watching such as Holroyd at Halifax and even Darren Holt plying it with Workington nowadays.

I feel that we are lucky at Hawks to have Tommy Haughey as he still has the skills - the Marchys can really turn it on. I delight at Twinkle Toes Neil Lowe as his footwork is tremendous for a larger ageing playing but he can still do it!

It hurt when we lost Kyle Briggs as his kicking game was tremendous and proved himself to be a crowd pleaser.

We are lucky at Championship and One level that these craftsmen are still around - they seem lost at Super League level !

Edited by RobinHoodHawk, 02 November 2010 - 09:35 AM.

[Penola]

It was a joy growing up watching Johnny Wolford dummying up down left and right and confusing defences. Alan McCurrie could open a gap to drive a bus through and a forward like Alan Platt was great for a following up Kingy. Terry Webb and Graeme Jennnings and unfortunately for Hunslet Les Holliday were also a joy to watch.

The International game does not have the Andy Gregory's or the Peter Sterling's now, players who were stockily built but not athletes as such

Being a veteran of both games I can see the benefits in each - I played my last game of rugby union at 42 - I doubt I could have got away with it at League due to fitness techniques etc.

I do venture to watch Leeds Carnegie play occasionally as it is quite a spectacle being stood below pitch level when a 6'6 flanker is lifting a 6'8 second rower up at a line out! and having had much of my heducation (!) through Leeds Poly and Leeds Met so showing a loyalty there.

My point is that I would still pay good money to watch the old masters/ craftsmen with their tremendous ball handling skills. I can name many names - Wolford, Johnson, Reilly, Hobbs etc - even of late Danny Fearon as they are the real craftsmen that have been 'lowered' by the advent of the 'one shape fits all sizes' Super League type athlete.

We still see the fantastic kickers and it is still a pleasure to be admired watching such as Holroyd at Halifax and even Darren Holt plying it with Workington nowadays.

I feel that we are lucky at Hawks to have Tommy Haughey as he still has the skills - the Marchys can really turn it on. I delight at Twinkle Toes Neil Lowe as his footwork is tremendous for a larger ageing playing but he can still do it!

It hurt when we lost Kyle Briggs as his kicking game was tremendous and proved himself to be a crowd pleaser.

We are lucky at Championship and One level that these craftsmen are still around - they seem lost at Super League level !

[The King Of Leon]

agree with most things being said on here, the lack of createive ball handlers and set moves has changed RL to more a less a hybrid union game now with the incessent kicking the ball up in the air on the 6th tackle.The British game has suffered more than anyone else with the lack of quality forwards in the mould of a Harry Pinner, Mick Crane, Les Holliday type loose forward who can open up a defence with a delayed pass.Even down at Nat lg levels there are few craftsmen like Johnney Wolford, Nigel Stephenson or Brendan White who could create a gap by slight of hand, these days only David Solomana really comes into that catogary at SL level though we at Hunslet are lucky to have the March,s who have a good offloading game.The rules need a radical rethink imo, there is far far too much aimless kicking by either hoofing it up in the air hopeing to nick a try off the video ref or just booting it dead from inside your own half to create field position.

[Penola]

agree with most things being said on here, the lack of createive ball handlers and set moves has changed RL to more a less a hybrid union game now with the incessent kicking the ball up in the air on the 6th tackle.The British game has suffered more than anyone else with the lack of quality forwards in the mould of a Harry Pinner, Mick Crane, Les Holliday type loose forward who can open up a defence with a delayed pass.Even down at Nat lg levels there are few craftsmen like Johnney Wolford, Nigel Stephenson or Brendan White who could create a gap by slight of hand, these days only David Solomana really comes into that catogary at SL level though we at Hunslet are lucky to have the March,s who have a good offloading game.The rules need a radical rethink imo, there is far far too much aimless kicking by either hoofing it up in the air hopeing to nick a try off the video ref or just booting it dead from inside your own half to create field position.

Was going to say Harry Pinner and Brendan White who could pass the ball over the top of a tackle to create a break. Graham Idle was another one

[The King Of Leon]

penola, not right sure about graham idle being known as a ball handler, he was always noted as being a great round the legs tackler and defender!
getting back to great offloading forwards, every team seemed to have at least 1 or in some cases 2 who could slip a pass and make a try.Some great players never even got to play for Great Britain/England so great was the depth of players just getting selected for Yorkshire was considered a great honour, nowadays anybody and everybody gets a game for England! Not knocking them but players like Darryl Griffin, Ben Harrison and Shawn Lunt would have struggled to make their county sides years ago.

[oldrover]

my favourite was derek pyke.

[Mrbus]

I'm not so sure that the skill(s) have been lost, but rather the defensive side of the game has improved, making the opportunity harder & harder to come across.

[Ironhawk]

Its not that I prefer Union its just that an all expences paid day out is better than sitting at home waiting for next League season

[The King Of Leon]

old rover, pyke was indeed a good offloader, i thought Barry Johnson at Cas would have gone on to be a great player but injuries stopped his career early.Keith Bell at Fev was another, we actually signed him at the back end but of course his best days were long gone.Bill Ashurst was probably the best , he had size , skill and was a fearsome opponent but too often his temper got the best of him, that good the Aussies pinched him off us and he didnt get many games in his prime for GB.

[Robin Evans]

Its not that I prefer Union its just that an all expences paid day out is better than sitting at home waiting for next League season

That I WILL agree with!

[Blind side johnny]

A number of these postings make me laugh, or should that be cry? It's as if RL could simply have ignored athleticism (I'm still not sure how though) and concentrated on a sport with jinky half backs and fat props with "good hands". Maybe these posters should realise that the game which they are now idolising was strongly criticised by the old gimmers of those days for sacrificing the virtues of the game that they grew up with.

Take of the rose-tinted specs chaps and realise that a lot of the RL that was played in those halcyon days was utter tripe; it's just so easy to forget that fact. RL is nowadays a much more skilfull game than it then was but it is played at a much faster pace which conceals much of the skill that is being applied. And I will counter the obvious arguments in response by reminding you that defence is just as skilfill as attack.

Remember how my namesake got his nickname if you have any doubts!