26 replies to this topic

[iangidds]

Our competiton (super league) is like a one make racing comp, there not mcclarens though ,their just Ford Fiestas! ploddoing along at the same pace doing the same thing! This is a result of the game not expanding, the RLs instance of the salary cap that forms a diluted talent pool leading to a lack of high quality ,high intensity Rugby League.
When we come up against the big boys who play the game the real way we are just left hanging on to their shirt tails. Rl coaches in this country are producing wrestlers not tacklers and although that may be fine in the Ford Fiesta cup it will do you no good on the international stage .
I agree the salary cap helps keep clubs solvent and stops teams stock piling the best talent but I also believe that it stops the real expansion of the game, I started watching the game in the mid eighties nothing much has changed in real terms if Im honest , sure we have tv coverage more than we did then but so does everybody else!
Bradford are going to get a new stadium, wakefield too, blah blah blah. We are going to beat the Aussies etc etc etc.
We as a sport have our shoe laces tied together and we cannot keep up in the professional age and the age of sporting celebs all of which lowers the profile of our sport, we are managing our sport down in real terms.
The biggest earners in the game of Super League are administrators of the game, for gods sake thats not right!
A revolution is required im afraid if we want to be serious about RL, if not we will continue to bounce along the bottom and become more detached from the mainstream sports in this counrty.

[bearman]

Our competiton (super league) is like a one make racing comp, there not mcclarens though ,their just Ford Fiestas! ploddoing along at the same pace doing the same thing! This is a result of the game not expanding, the RLs instance of the salary cap that forms a diluted talent pool leading to a lack of high quality ,high intensity Rugby League.
When we come up against the big boys who play the game the real way we are just left hanging on to their shirt tails. Rl coaches in this country are producing wrestlers not tacklers and although that may be fine in the Ford Fiesta cup it will do you no good on the international stage .
I agree the salary cap helps keep clubs solvent and stops teams stock piling the best talent but I also believe that it stops the real expansion of the game, I started watching the game in the mid eighties nothing much has changed in real terms if Im honest , sure we have tv coverage more than we did then but so does everybody else!
Bradford are going to get a new stadium, wakefield too, blah blah blah. We are going to beat the Aussies etc etc etc.
We as a sport have our shoe laces tied together and we cannot keep up in the professional age and the age of sporting celebs all of which lowers the profile of our sport, we are managing our sport down in real terms.
The biggest earners in the game of Super League are administrators of the game, for gods sake thats not right!
A revolution is required im afraid if we want to be serious about RL, if not we will continue to bounce along the bottom and become more detached from the mainstream sports in this counrty.

Ok, you know it's broken.
Now tell us how to fix it.

[saints10coach]

Promotion and relegation would make a difference. Know ing your team is safe does not inspire the lower clubs to improve. Promotion and relegation should also be based on team performance and not how pretty your ladies toilets are.

[tim2]

Promotion and relegation would make a difference. Know ing your team is safe does not inspire the lower clubs to improve. Promotion and relegation should also be based on team performance and not how pretty your ladies toilets are.

No it wouldn't. It just encorages clubs to bring in even more second rate overseas players to try to rescue their season.

P+R may be seen as a lifeline for Championship clubs, but it does nothing for the elite end of the game.

Similarly, the salary cap increase would just mean overseas players getting more money. Even then would the true superstars of the Aus/NZ teams (Slater, Lockyear, Inglis, Marshall, Thurston etc.) really come over here and raise the standards Of SL unless the figures were huge? Miss out on SOO and playing for Australia?

How many players have we lost to RU who would get into the current England team? Ashton?

For me, the problems are deep seated within the structure of the game. We generate world class forwards but not backs. Why is that? For me, we need to address these areas

1. Coaching kids to have better skills.
2. Juniors should play and train in the summer months
3. We must get better at coaching - giving it to the big lad and screaming to "get stuck in" is not coaching. The standards and attitudes I have witnessed at a lot of clubs is horrific.
4. We must get a bigger player base by encouraging more take up of the sport and increasing standards across the country.

This isn't easy to achieve and would take 10 years to take effect. In the meantime, the Aussies get better and we play catch up.

[iangidds]

Ok, you know it's broken.
Now tell us how to fix it.

I think its a combination of broadcasters, Rl , marketing gurus and a select number of RL/Sports fans getting together to ask how we can make things as good as they can be, real foresight real plans . Look for outside investment ,try and get serious wealthy people who can have their egos massaged by owning a global brand within a global product. Im not going to change things with my cup of tea in one hand and a laptop i know . My feeling is we have to get the authorities to listen to implement seious longlasting changes to ensure that RL progresses.
Rl is a very poorly thought of game nationally never mind internationally and if that downward trend continues it will have consequences.

[topchef]

We either have to get rid of overpriced, over the hill so-called foreign superstars or at the very least restrict each team to one or two per yearly squad. We cannot go on letting them hog the the influential team positions,

[Maximus Decimus]

Our competiton (super league) is like a one make racing comp, there not mcclarens though ,their just Ford Fiestas! ploddoing along at the same pace doing the same thing! This is a result of the game not expanding, the RLs instance of the salary cap that forms a diluted talent pool leading to a lack of high quality ,high intensity Rugby League.
When we come up against the big boys who play the game the real way we are just left hanging on to their shirt tails. Rl coaches in this country are producing wrestlers not tacklers and although that may be fine in the Ford Fiesta cup it will do you no good on the international stage .
I agree the salary cap helps keep clubs solvent and stops teams stock piling the best talent but I also believe that it stops the real expansion of the game, I started watching the game in the mid eighties nothing much has changed in real terms if Im honest , sure we have tv coverage more than we did then but so does everybody else!
Bradford are going to get a new stadium, wakefield too, blah blah blah. We are going to beat the Aussies etc etc etc.
We as a sport have our shoe laces tied together and we cannot keep up in the professional age and the age of sporting celebs all of which lowers the profile of our sport, we are managing our sport down in real terms.
The biggest earners in the game of Super League are administrators of the game, for gods sake thats not right!
A revolution is required im afraid if we want to be serious about RL, if not we will continue to bounce along the bottom and become more detached from the mainstream sports in this counrty.

What an idiot you really are. All you do is pop up every few months and start these pointless threads with absolutely no answer to how we can sort them out. Unless you include your pathetic generic 'market the game, get rich people on board' nonsense.

For those that think bringing P and R back will help, it's worth noting that in the 35 years it existed in RL we never beat the Aussies in a series. Let's not let facts get in the way of a rant though eh?

We can't compete because we are a small northern sport with a very limited pool of players. Of course the answer is to expand this but in 115 years nobody has found an answer to it. It doesn't help that we have no money, no influence and a bigger rival sport that means many people are openly animous to us.

[saints10coach]

No it wouldn't. It just encorages clubs to bring in even more second rate overseas players to try to rescue their season.

P+R may be seen as a lifeline for Championship clubs, but it does nothing for the elite end of the game.

Similarly, the salary cap increase would just mean overseas players getting more money. Even then would the true superstars of the Aus/NZ teams (Slater, Lockyear, Inglis, Marshall, Thurston etc.) really come over here and raise the standards Of SL unless the figures were huge? Miss out on SOO and playing for Australia?

How many players have we lost to RU who would get into the current England team? Ashton?

For me, the problems are deep seated within the structure of the game. We generate world class forwards but not backs. Why is that? For me, we need to address these areas

1. Coaching kids to have better skills.
2. Juniors should play and train in the summer months
3. We must get better at coaching - giving it to the big lad and screaming to "get stuck in" is not coaching. The standards and attitudes I have witnessed at a lot of clubs is horrific.
4. We must get a bigger player base by encouraging more take up of the sport and increasing standards across the country.

This isn't easy to achieve and would take 10 years to take effect. In the meantime, the Aussies get better and we play catch up.

That is a case for stopping imports, not one for not allowing promotion and relegation. When the game began, some of the teams at the top were Manningham, Oldham and Batley, if the draw bridge had have been lifted then at the expense of some of the sides who are now in SL do you think the fans of those SL clubs would be complaining?

[tim2]

That is a case for stopping imports, not one for not allowing promotion and relegation. When the game began, some of the teams at the top were Manningham, Oldham and Batley, if the draw bridge had have been lifted then at the expense of some of the sides who are now in SL do you think the fans of those SL clubs would be complaining?

It's not a question of fans complaining. You suggested bringing back P+R would help our international chances. I don't think it will - you suggested that the lower teams don't improve without P+R. Well, I would say that the opposite is true. If they get in trouble then the likelihood is that they won't risk developing young British or French players.

At the moment we are in the first round of the franchising system and stadia are in issue. Once all the teams in SL have a decent stadium and the teams applying have one as well, the focus should be on development. I would like to see clubs that field more players from their own nation rewarded through franchising.

[TheConverted]

Come on guys get your heads out of the sand and start comparing where RL falls down and RU takes over.

This is just one of many offerings to get future pro players into the system, all the premiership sides and many championship sides have this setup. You even have to go through a rigorous selection process to get on the course. My lads year 100 applied and only 20 got through.

http://www.oaklands....rugby-club.aspx

My son went through this from age 16 to 18 and it is the nearest thing you can get to being a pro player.They are coached by professional coaches every day. They train five days a week and have extremely competitive matches between the other elite colleges which are associated with the RU premiership clubs.

On top of this the elite of the elite play for their own acadamies on a regular basis and the elite of the elite of the elite train with the England setup.

Does RL do that.........NO

To quote a well known phrase..."Theres Your ******* Problem Mister"

What I and all of you should want to know is why my son transferred to RL from all of this and make this the attraction of RL.

Cheers

[saints10coach]

One of the problems is we all put our sport down. TheConverted we do have structures in place called Service Areas which are tasked with providing elite player on to National camp or SL Scholarships. This is a new format which ensures young players are not over played as they can only play at club level and be at one of the representative levels, not at club level and every representative level as in the past.
The main problem with the game in this country is we fill all of our key position roles at our top clubs with second rate imports. Until we stop this and say something like you can only come off the overseas roster if you take British citizenship and pledge yourself to one of the home countries then you will not count on the overseas roster. This and reduce the allowance to 3 maximum.
I still think there should be promotion and relegation, remember we are a spectator sport and if you deny speccies of having the chance to see their team compete at the top level then he stops being a spectator and does something else instead.

Edited by saints10coach, 25 October 2010 - 03:56 PM.

[West Country Eagle]

Come on guys get your heads out of the sand and start comparing where RL falls down and RU takes over.

This is just one of many offerings to get future pro players into the system, all the premiership sides and many championship sides have this setup. You even have to go through a rigorous selection process to get on the course. My lads year 100 applied and only 20 got through.

http://www.oaklands....rugby-club.aspx

My son went through this from age 16 to 18 and it is the nearest thing you can get to being a pro player.They are coached by professional coaches every day. They train five days a week and have extremely competitive matches between the other elite colleges which are associated with the RU premiership clubs.

On top of this the elite of the elite play for their own acadamies on a regular basis and the elite of the elite of the elite train with the England setup.

Does RL do that.........NO

To quote a well known phrase..."Theres Your ******* Problem Mister"

What I and all of you should want to know is why my son transferred to RL from all of this and make this the attraction of RL.

Cheers

Actually, the structure in RL IS similar to this - there's an article I wrote about it in the next issue of Rugby League World.

RL HAS got the AASE scheme (which is basically what you describe above is) - Sheffield did it first, along with Hull, Saints and Bradford. Widnes also do it - Warrington, Salford and Cas are coming on board soon.

The RFL's performance department has been working hard to develop a much better performance pathway for youngsters. One of the problems is that with only 4000-5000 16 to 18 year-olds playing RL in this country, there will only ever be a tiny majority who are good enough for scholarships and academies. When you consider that around 1 in 15 Academy kids ever make it to Super League, you can see why we're struggling.

I won't say owt else - read the feature in RL World

[TheConverted]

I think you are spot on about the overseas players, I could understand getting them over here at 21 and watching them for at least 5 or six years.

The point about the RU Premiership schemes is that it is several years down the line now and expanding. In terms of regional and other development systems and along with the england schools of rugby the availability of first class coaching is far more apparent than RL because it has been in place longer and there are more routes to it country wide.

My main point is probably why did my lad change codes. here is a guy who has played at the very top of the RU code and is willing to risk it all and go for RL and if he will do it there are plenty more to be tempted to make the change. One reason being the size requirements of RU are greatly different.

His explanation to me is.......because RL is a better game to play, this is where RL has the advantage with youngsters and needs to be exploited.

My opinion, Ive watched my local RL club grow into the model of the local RU club within three years. This needs replicating countrywide as quickly as possible. The you will see real progress on all fronts.

Cheers

[goldcard]

Last time we beat the Aussies there was no P&R.
It was 1 big division,
Maybe that's the answer.
Oh, we played in winter too.

[L Bow]

Last time we beat the Aussies there was no P&R.
It was 1 big division,
Maybe that's the answer.
Oh, we played in winter too.

It's just a shame that Australia weren't standing still.

[iangidds]

What an idiot you really are. All you do is pop up every few months and start these pointless threads with absolutely no answer to how we can sort them out. Unless you include your pathetic generic 'market the game, get rich people on board' nonsense.

For those that think bringing P and R back will help, it's worth noting that in the 35 years it existed in RL we never beat the Aussies in a series. Let's not let facts get in the way of a rant though eh?

We can't compete because we are a small northern sport with a very limited pool of players. Of course the answer is to expand this but in 115 years nobody has found an answer to it. It doesn't help that we have no money, no influence and a bigger rival sport that means many people are openly animous to us.

ive missed you too ######wit , the truth is we have a sport that needs to go forward as i said I dont have the answers but somebody must have. is this really it ? is it allthe game can be in this country?

[iangidds]

ive missed you too ######wit , the truth is we have a sport that needs to go forward as i said I dont have the answers but somebody must have. is this really it ? is it allthe game can be in this country?

and i didnt edit it

[3owls]

I'm not too bothered how we fare against Australia or new zealand all i'm bothered about is a competitive superleague to be honest. We will always struggle against Australia because they are a country of emigrants, they have a huge gene pool to draw from which is an obvious advantage. All we have is the white working class lads brought up on the estates with a few black/half castes thrown in. No amount of coaching can overcome the physical disadvantage our players are up against. It's about time people stopped worrying too much about beating Australia and just enjoy our own domestic leagues for what they are. The last superleague season was the best ever and if next years is as good i couldn't give a flying foot what happens down under.

[bearman]

I'm not too bothered how we fare against Australia or new zealand all i'm bothered about is a competitive superleague to be honest. We will always struggle against Australia because they are a country of emigrants, they have a huge gene pool to draw from which is an obvious advantage. All we have is the white working class lads brought up on the estates with a few black/half castes thrown in. No amount of coaching can overcome the physical disadvantage our players are up against. It's about time people stopped worrying too much about beating Australia and just enjoy our own domestic leagues for what they are. The last superleague season was the best ever and if next years is as good i couldn't give a flying foot what happens down under.

That has to be the worst post I've ever seen on this forum.

[tim2]

That has to be the worst post I've ever seen on this forum.

Agreed, and its up against some good competition.