27 replies to this topic

[HappyDave]

Zzzz! Change the record. We lost on Saturday, it's not the end of the world. Super League isn't the 'Ford Fiesta Cup', what a crock, it's not as fast or competitive as the NRL (probably 70% of their teams are at the top level where it's more like 30% in SL) but it's still a damn fine & entertaining competition. Even if we do come 3rd in the 4N the RFL still needs to give Macca another year to show what he can do & build the team. There is a lot of work but most of the negativity of here is really OTT & pure BS.

"International footy is dying in England, as the England Footy Team haven't won anything in 54 years..." Hmmm...

Edited by HappyDave, 25 October 2010 - 11:29 PM.

[Dave T]

Yep.

[HappyDave]

The reason I say if we don't get to the final the RFL need to give MacNamara another year is you can't fire an International Coach after only a year in any sport (well, unless they're as dire as McClaren?), especially as we have so few Internationals in RL per year but if England don't play well enough in 2011 then we'll need a new coach in 2012 in preparation for the RLWC.

Edited by HappyDave, 25 October 2010 - 11:44 PM.

[Hornetto]

Zzzz! Change the record. We lost on Saturday, it's not the end of the world. Super League isn't the 'Ford Fiesta Cup', what a crock, it's not as fast or competitive as the NRL (probably 70% of their teams are at the top level where it's more like 30% in SL) but it's still a damn fine & entertaining competition. Even if we do come 3rd in the 4N the RFL still needs to give Macca another year to show what he can do & build the team. There is a lot of work but most of the negativity of here is really OTT & pure BS.

"International footy is dying in England, as the England Footy Team haven't won anything in 54 years..." Hmmm...

That and SL fans moaning about how they get bad decisions in finals. You're in Super League and you're in a final!

STFU.

[JohnM]

Zzzz! Change the record. We lost on Saturday, it's not the end of the world. Super League isn't the 'Ford Fiesta Cup', what a crock, it's not as fast or competitive as the NRL (probably 70% of their teams are at the top level where it's more like 30% in SL) but it's still a damn fine & entertaining competition. Even if we do come 3rd in the 4N the RFL still needs to give Macca another year to show what he can do & build the team. There is a lot of work but most of the negativity of here is really OTT & pure BS.

"International footy is dying in England, as the England Footy Team haven't won anything in 54 years..." Hmmm...

since no one at the RFL ever takes any notice of what the fans say, it hardly matters what we say. Apart from a period in the early 1990 when it looked like we could match Australia. our recent record at International level is quite frankly abysmal. and the response? nothing has changed. true, we have three key players out 0 Peacock, Morley and Eastwood.

however, we had had a multitude of managers and none of them have made any difference.
we have had a multitude of players and none of then have made any difference.

it is not rocket science to think that maybe something is wrong somewhere and that we need to do something different. Why is that not a topic for discussion?

[Ant]

I am fed up of it thats for sure.

The reality is we will always struggle against the Aussies, nothing to do with SL standards, but with the sheer difference in playing numbers in Aus.

Then again, how come England Soccer hasnt won anything in 44 years?

In the years of watching RL, one thing I do know is that there is no such thing in this game as a long term plan, none of them are given chance to work. If it doesnt work first time, its a fail and the next white elephant is rolled out.

Give the franchising time to work, its taken a decade for the salary cap to show a positive impact

[tim2]

I am fed up of it thats for sure.

The reality is we will always struggle against the Aussies, nothing to do with SL standards, but with the sheer difference in playing numbers in Aus.

Then again, how come England Soccer hasnt won anything in 44 years?

Too many imports, poor quality coaching from a young age. Sound familiar?

[Ant]

All because the clubs hold the power and not the governing body.

[steef]

I get sick of the negativity for sure. I honestly think we're on the right tracks we just need to give it time and try and accelerate down it a little more. Trying to get around EU employment law to reduce the imports is a problem. Franchising/sallery cap seem to be working but need more time. We lost to the world champs by a couple of scores having played badly, if we play well? who knows.

[thirteenthman]

I still think we have a chance on Saturday. This is a weakened England team with many big stars missing, but we still gave the Kiwis a run for their money on Saturday.

However, the sport does have fundamental problems which will continue to hamper the games progress unless they are sorted. What really bugs me is people constantly blaming refs for their own teams problems. Most annoying of all is the general disinterest in the international game. People seem to care more about their own clubs sides. I even heard over the weekend someone say they didn't know why England play at all. Unbelievable.

[JohnM]

All because the clubs hold the power and not the governing body.

I think that is a major contributing factor.

One thing for sure is that its not an issue of too many imports. We are just not producing enough home grown players... and that starts at an early age, fro that is where the love of the game, the ambition, the desire starts. There days, why would any kid want to play Rugby League?

[Ant]

Actually, thats a bloomin good point, we played very poorly with a weakened team and lost to the world champions by a couple of scores

One good game next weekend and all will be forgiven again!

[Dave T]

I think that is a major contributing factor.

One thing for sure is that its not an issue of too many imports. We are just not producing enough home grown players... and that starts at an early age, fro that is where the love of the game, the ambition, the desire starts. There days, why would any kid want to play Rugby League?

Whilst there is clearly a lot in this comment, the major problem is that the rules have allowed clubs to sign players who have come through a very strong junior system in Oz and load their team with them due to all sorts of loopholes.

This requires a lot less investment than nurturing your own talent (and ultimately risk losing them to another club) and is a major reason for the number of average overseas players. Had the rules been much tighter then clubs would absolutely have been forced to invest in the youth and deliver higher quality scolarship schemes and junior support structures.

In 1995 after the WC a decision was made to make the 'emerging nation' players exempt from the quota, which led the likes of Warrington to sign Salesi Finau and Mateaki Mafi etc. On the surface this decision seemed a good one, England / GB were improving and narrowly lost the WC Final, Wales were looking strong, and then within a couple of years we were really struggling.

I have absolutely no doubts that certain players were tossed by the wayside far too easily at all clubs as it was much easier to nip and buy a well coached Aussie for a low price, helped by the exchange rate.

[JohnM]

I understand that but I think it starts earlier than say 15 or 16. At what point (or age) though, does someone decide to go the union route, or the soccer route? Who would be their role models? A kid at junior school is much more likely in my view to be exposed to Johnnny Wilkinson as a potential role model than he is Lee Briers. Why would any kid want to emulate Shaun Long when he could emulate Gavin Henson?

[Maximus Decimus]

What I hate about these negative threads is that they totally lack any perspective. Most of us are fully aware that RL has big issues to deal with, many of which nobody has answers to, but we choose not to focus on them because it is futile.

I believe the RFL are doing a pretty good job, especially with limited resources. In the last few years they have managed to improve the state of the game in places like Wales and France which hopefully long term will pay off.

However people criticise them for perennial RL problems. So we can't compete with the Aussies, well what's new? The reality is that they have far greater resources than us and will for the foreseeable future. I'd love to see how these negative Einsteins would go about it. We are a relatively small sport with no money. We also have the largest Football league in the world surrounding our clubs. Then we have a rival similar sport with far greater resources than us vying for the same players. To put that in perspective they will make 35 million off the Autumn internationals, we won't make that in 10 years. Even places like Scotland gets criticised by these people yet they have no idea of the difficulties of starting up RL somewhere new. I'm currently in Ireland and I often think how would you get a kid to play a sport that he doesn't know about, with no heroes to aspire to, that will hurt him to play, in contrast to say GAA that all his friends play and his home town does as well.

We've been dealt a harsh hand and it will take a long time before we improve our lot but there's no point being ridiculously negative like iangidds for instance and having no answer to it. We know our problems and we're trying to sort them with the few means at our disposal to it.

[JohnM]

I'm currently in Ireland and I often think how would you get a kid to play a sport that he doesn't know about, with no heroes to aspire to, that will hurt him to play, in contrast to say GAA that all his friends play and his home town does as well.

That's my point, too. But keeping quiet about it will not change things. The fact that I may or may not feel good about our chances this weekend will not influence our chances.

We know our problems and we're trying to sort them with the few means at our disposal to it.

I don't think that is true, actually, at International level, though.

[Trojan]

Zzzz! Change the record. We lost on Saturday, it's not the end of the world. Super League isn't the 'Ford Fiesta Cup', what a crock, it's not as fast or competitive as the NRL (probably 70% of their teams are at the top level where it's more like 30% in SL) but it's still a damn fine & entertaining competition. Even if we do come 3rd in the 4N the RFL still needs to give Macca another year to show what he can do & build the team. There is a lot of work but most of the negativity of here is really OTT & pure BS.

"International footy is dying in England, as the England Footy Team haven't won anything in 54 years..." Hmmm...

But if we do have a real ambition for RL to expand in the Uk and for the media to take us seriously we need a successful international side. With the in-built bias towards Union in our media we need to force them to pay attention. Success in internationals is the only way I can see us doing this. I know I've said this before but the Scottish Women's Curling Team were headline news when they won the gold medal a few years ago. Scottish Womens Curling now there is a real minority sport. I'm sure that if England actually won, say the current 4N (unlikely I know) in Australia surely the PR operation at Red Hall could make quite a bit of hay while the media sun was shining on us. If they couldn't they want sacking.

[Maximus Decimus]

What I hate about these negative threads is that they totally lack any perspective. Most of us are fully aware that RL has big issues to deal with, many of which nobody has answers to, but we choose not to focus on them because it is futile.

I believe the RFL are doing a pretty good job, especially with limited resources. In the last few years they have managed to improve the state of the game in places like Wales and France which hopefully long term will pay off.

However people criticise them for perennial RL problems. So we can't compete with the Aussies, well what's new? The reality is that they have far greater resources than us and will for the foreseeable future. I'd love to see how these negative Einsteins would go about it. We are a relatively small sport with no money. We also have the largest Football league in the world surrounding our clubs. Then we have a rival similar sport with far greater resources than us vying for the same players. To put that in perspective they will make 35 million off the Autumn internationals, we won't make that in 10 years. Even places like Scotland gets criticised by these people yet they have no idea of the difficulties of starting up RL somewhere new. I'm currently in Ireland and I often think how would you get a kid to play a sport that he doesn't know about, with no heroes to aspire to, that will hurt him to play, in contrast to say GAA that all his friends play and his home town does as well.

We've been dealt a harsh hand and it will take a long time before we improve our lot but there's no point being ridiculously negative like iangidds for instance and having no answer to it. We know our problems and we're trying to sort them with the few means at our disposal to it.

[tonyXIII]

Yes, I find it tiresome. I used to really enjoy spending time on here and sharing thoughts with like-(and not so like-) minded people. Now, I don't enjoy it half as much. I still think it's the best place for keeping in touch, but I wish people would lighten up a bit. We all enjoy (?) watching what I do believe to be the greatest game on earth. Be thankful for that.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I enjoyed Saturday's game and thought that England looked resiliant and competitive. We were away and had a lot of key men missing, and were against what is purported to be the finest Kiwi side for a long time, pretty much full strength and much further ahead of us in terms of combinations and maturity of play makers. None of our NRL players stood out, if anything we were carrying a couple of them. If Joel and Robinson can play and nearly hold their own, with all their limitations, I came away thinking there isn't that much wrong with our lot, and that a Final appearance in 2013 is a very achievable target given the respective ages of the key players. Having then seen the Aussies huffing and puffing to no great effect, I came away thinking that we were in good shape to win the thing.
I have been tied up so have missed the negative threads.