38 replies to this topic

[duffymoon]

Following on from the very successful meeting on Monday night surely now its time to really promote the club in M27.Ideally some kind of base in the town centre! on the A6 would be most beneficial as any large Swinton Lions sign/advertising board would be viewed by the many hundreds of people passing through the town everyday.In my opinion one of the best ways to promote the club is a team poster ideally with fixtures displayed and with advertisements for local businesses around the perimeter.These could be displayed in pubs,clubs and local shops.I know it costs money but we need more merchandise ! car stickers are another great way to promote the club and arent that expensive and how many fans? would have bought those hoodies that the players wore last season had they been made available.

[LOYALION]

Following on from the very successful meeting on Monday night surely now its time to really promote the club in M27.Ideally some kind of base in the town centre! on the A6 would be most beneficial as any large Swinton Lions sign/advertising board would be viewed by the many hundreds of people passing through the town everyday.In my opinion one of the best ways to promote the club is a team poster ideally with fixtures displayed and with advertisements for local businesses around the perimeter.These could be displayed in pubs,clubs and local shops.I know it costs money but we need more merchandise ! car stickers are another great way to promote the club and arent that expensive and how many fans? would have bought those hoodies that the players wore last season had they been made available.

Spot on as usual Duffymoon. I have just returned from Scotland and missed the meeting but it sounds like good things are a possibility with the right application. Car stickers etc are a good cheap way of advertising the club and I am more likely to buy a hood than a shirt. T shirts too are a good, inexpensive way to promote the brand.
Let's get the Lions back on the map!!!!!!

[PhillH]

After making progress with Agecroft, second on the agenda off-the-field ought to be building some relationships to allow the club to get maximum value from its set up for 2011 - i.e. having playing, training and administration all based inside the boundary of the "right" local authority and "right" RFL service area.

It now looks stranger than ever to have a Community Development presence in Bury and further afield, but nothing in M27 nor anywhere else in the City of Salford.

Well done to the Supporters Trust for stepping in to sponsor the shirts for 2011, but it does mean the club will have gone 2 years without a bonefide commercial shirt sponsor. Clearly the club needs to up its game on the commercial development side of things too; it has gone gradually downhill since the disappearance of Warburtons.

While moving to the Willows might save some money in the short-term, and Steve McCormack's appointment will hopefully lead to improved performances from the team, these other problems will still hold the club back until they are properly addressed.

[RIGGY]

The club were asking people to fill out a form on Monday night with all sorts of questions on it. One of them said that if you could help the club in anyway with good ideas to fill it in and they would contact the person in return.

Why don't you give them a call Phil and see if you can help ? Good ideas always welcome

[iomlion]

I know they may get some abuse but cant the club put a suggestion scheme form on the website?? Maybe a registration scheme and login would take away the more abusive of suggestions??

[Shizonamy]

-The stadium plans should be up on the website, not just for fans but for potential investors, listing all plans, size of site, potential possibilities.
-Why not build a cinema on the site, the nearest one is the Lowry and it's not the best.
-A gymnasium, again there's only really DW, the Marriot and TF nearby, I'm sure local people would go. Pendlebury rec is a bit on the small side.
-A good social club that can be used 7 days a week, doing food similar to the Red Lion Wardley, I know there's the HB nearby but it's pretty dire.
-Top chain restaurants like Nando's and Pesto, as long as it's secure people would defiantely eat there, possibly a KFC and a Pizza Express?
-Improving the transport links must be priority, if you attract the businesses you must have a viable way to get there.

Just a few simple ideas

[Blue Monkey]

-The stadium plans should be up on the website, not just for fans but for potential investors, listing all plans, size of site, potential possibilities.
-Why not build a cinema on the site, the nearest one is the Lowry and it's not the best.
-A gymnasium, again there's only really DW, the Marriot and TF nearby, I'm sure local people would go. Pendlebury rec is a bit on the small side.
-A good social club that can be used 7 days a week, doing food similar to the Red Lion Wardley, I know there's the HB nearby but it's pretty dire.
-Top chain restaurants like Nando's and Pesto, as long as it's secure people would defiantely eat there, possibly a KFC and a Pizza Express?
-Improving the transport links must be priority, if you attract the businesses you must have a viable way to get there.

Just a few simple ideas

Very good post Mr Shizonamy (are you from Japan by any chance?).
The nearest pub is actually the Plough on Rainsough Brow just over the river on the Prestwich side. Nice little Holt's pub with beer not too pricey. Sooner or later public transport links need to be improved. The 484 should be run on Sundays to serve fans' needs. Although it is unlikely to be built, a small railway station could be provided on the Bolton- Manchester Victoria line on Agecroft Road. This would be popular locally with the increase in resident numbers in the Agecroft area in recent times.

And yes, I think we would all agree with Shizonamy's suggestion that the stadium's artist's impressions should be accessible on the club's website.

[PhillH]

The club were asking people to fill out a form on Monday night with all sorts of questions on it. One of them said that if you could help the club in anyway with good ideas to fill it in and they would contact the person in return.

Why don't you give them a call Phil and see if you can help ? Good ideas always welcome

Paul Kidd has got my number! "You can take a horse to water........" The club will probably only accept help from people who are happy to collect litter on a voluntary basis, when what it really needs is a good management consultant!

A good start would be to carry out Duffymoon's suggestion and establish a base in Swinton for the purpose of administration, marketing, merchandise sales, lottery sales, community development. The question in my view is whether the Kidds are prepared to put growth of the club ahead of personal convenience. We know a suitable venue has previously been offered to the club in the middle of Swinton at no cost. If possible that should be taken up. Not exactly a new suggestion.

The club needs to develop a proper strategy for developing its profile in the M27 area, including a contribution to the community in order to build the argument for public subsidy of a new ground. This should also be designed to attract sponsors and be aligned with mechanisms to access grant funding that the club has not utilised thus far. Ad hoc touch rugby sessions advertised only through the club website and this forum are not the answer - it smacks of a token gesture. The club should be represented at every meeting of the Swinton Community Committee and adopt a strategic approach to communications.

The next stage would be development of strong relationships with as many local education providers, amateur sports clubs, the local health service providers, council functions, businesses and local charity groups as resources allow. Again the goal ought to be opportunities for partnering and growth of the business off-the-field in a sustainable way, while making a contribution to the community in terms of improving life chances of young people in the area inparticular. All great marketing, too.

However the starting point for all this has to be a sustained, large scale and tangible commitment to building the club up in the M27 area. Without that commitment from the people at the top the chances of success are non-existant.

[marshy1]

Paul Kidd has got my number! "You can take a horse to water........" The club will probably only accept help from people who are happy to collect litter on a voluntary basis, when what it really needs is a good management consultant!

A good start would be to carry out Duffymoon's suggestion and establish a base in Swinton for the purpose of administration, marketing, merchandise sales, lottery sales, community development. The question in my view is whether the Kidds are prepared to put growth of the club ahead of personal convenience. We know a suitable venue has previously been offered to the club in the middle of Swinton at no cost. If possible that should be taken up. Not exactly a new suggestion.

The club needs to develop a proper strategy for developing its profile in the M27 area, including a contribution to the community in order to build the argument for public subsidy of a new ground. This should also be designed to attract sponsors and be aligned with mechanisms to access grant funding that the club has not utilised thus far. Ad hoc touch rugby sessions advertised only through the club website and this forum are not the answer - it smacks of a token gesture. The club should be represented at every meeting of the Swinton Community Committee and adopt a strategic approach to communications.

The next stage would be development of strong relationships with as many local education providers, amateur sports clubs, the local health service providers, council functions, businesses and local charity groups as resources allow. Again the goal ought to be opportunities for partnering and growth of the business off-the-field in a sustainable way, while making a contribution to the community in terms of improving life chances of young people in the area inparticular. All great marketing, too.

However the starting point for all this has to be a sustained, large scale and tangible commitment to building the club up in the M27 area. Without that commitment from the people at the top the chances of success are non-existant.

Phil,
You get my vote for chairman,now all you need to do is put the money up to buy the club.

As for ad hoc touch rugby sessions, that is an insult to Cliff Tomou who came over from Wigan for six to Seven weeks in the early part of autumn to try and get that up and running,the best turn out he got was 4 people why should he bother when he reads comments like that.

Seems the club need people like you who have a lot of time on their hands as you clearly do as demonstrated in your blue print for sucess.

Also is there a twist in your comment regarding" The club will probably only accept help from people who are happy to collect litter on a voluntary basis" seems to me there is,if so again it is very insulting.

Seems to me Phil one contribution you could make next year is to financially support the club next yaer by attending matches, your health permitting.If travel is a problem I will be more than happy to oblige as i usually have room in the car.

[PhillH]

Phil,
You get my vote for chairman,now all you need to do is put the money up to buy the club.

As for ad hoc touch rugby sessions, that is an insult to Cliff Tomou who came over from Wigan for six to Seven weeks in the early part of autumn to try and get that up and running,the best turn out he got was 4 people why should he bother when he reads comments like that.

Seems the club need people like you who have a lot of time on their hands as you clearly do as demonstrated in your blue print for sucess.

Also is there a twist in your comment regarding" The club will probably only accept help from people who are happy to collect litter on a voluntary basis" seems to me there is,if so again it is very insulting.

Seems to me Phil one contribution you could make next year is to financially support the club next yaer by attending matches, your health permitting.If travel is a problem I will be more than happy to oblige as i usually have room in the car.

Alan,

There is no insult to Cliff Tomou, quite the opposite - the point is that Cliff deserves better backing. It was his enthusiasm and commitment that presented the opportunity for the touch rugby sessions to be run on an opportunistic, or ad hoc, basis. I cannot take part myself nowadays, but still felt that Cliff was badly let down. There are good reasons why only 4 people turned up. The core problem being that the touch rugby sessions were not part of an overarching set of tactics to get people involved, to advertise them in the community at large and integrate them with other initiatives to make people aware of the club's existance.

I do sincerely believe that the vast majority of people who live and work in the area nowadays have no concept at all of Swinton Lions existance. The scale of the challenge to turn that around is such that you need a proper strategy and to find a range of ways to have an impact with people.

When I stated on here that an overall strategy was needed in order to get more people to take part, that a message on the club website and debate on this forum would not reach out sufficiently, you shot me down. What was then evident? Question is: Does the club want to learn from this and do things better next year, or not bother, continue to write off community development as a waste of time and put the blame for low participation on the supporters? To reiterate: No insult to Cliff - he deserves better backing.

No insult either to people who are prepared to give voluntary effort at whatever level to do their bit to try and keep the club afloat. My fear is that the direction at the top needs to be fixed in order for all those efforts to be used to best effect. Else it is akin to bailing out the Titanic.

This next 12 months is going to be crucial, given the limited shelf life of the arrangement to play at the Willows. In many ways moving there is a big risk with the future of the club. I hope we come out of 2011 with a brighter future, which may happen if there is finally some proper progress at Agecroft and the club shows increased commitment to building itself a future in the M27 area. But, if the same trends we have seen in the last 4 or 5 years continue, I genuinely fear it could be the last year for a Swinton Lions side at this level of the game. Change is gonna come, one way or the other.

[juliancaine]

Alan,

There is no insult to Cliff Tomou, quite the opposite - the point is that Cliff deserves better backing. It was his enthusiasm and commitment that presented the opportunity for the touch rugby sessions to be run on an opportunistic, or ad hoc, basis. I cannot take part myself nowadays, but still felt that Cliff was badly let down. There are good reasons why only 4 people turned up. The core problem being that the touch rugby sessions were not part of an overarching set of tactics to get people involved, to advertise them in the community at large and integrate them with other initiatives to make people aware of the club's existance.

I do sincerely believe that the vast majority of people who live and work in the area nowadays have no concept at all of Swinton Lions existance. The scale of the challenge to turn that around is such that you need a proper strategy and to find a range of ways to have an impact with people.

When I stated on here that an overall strategy was needed in order to get more people to take part, that a message on the club website and debate on this forum would not reach out sufficiently, you shot me down. What was then evident? Question is: Does the club want to learn from this and do things better next year, or not bother, continue to write off community development as a waste of time and put the blame for low participation on the supporters? To reiterate: No insult to Cliff - he deserves better backing.

No insult either to people who are prepared to give voluntary effort at whatever level to do their bit to try and keep the club afloat. My fear is that the direction at the top needs to be fixed in order for all those efforts to be used to best effect. Else it is akin to bailing out the Titanic.

This next 12 months is going to be crucial, given the limited shelf life of the arrangement to play at the Willows. In many ways moving there is a big risk with the future of the club. I hope we come out of 2011 with a brighter future, which may happen if there is finally some proper progress at Agecroft and the club shows increased commitment to building itself a future in the M27 area. But, if the same trends we have seen in the last 4 or 5 years continue, I genuinely fear it could be the last year for a Swinton Lions side at this level of the game. Change is gonna come, one way or the other.

i totally agree with you phil h unless thing change the club will wither on the vine to a sad end, a new ground and community development in m27 is essential and within the next year, if not maybe a smaller training venue with a 3000 capacity arena could be built along side the barton development ala city of manchester stadium with the athletics track to allow swinton a small venue to compete from.

[mark richardson]

It seems to me that the club are trying at the moment and its long overdue. They tried last year too with the apppointment of Paul Smith,but it just went wrong.
I think this year could be our year. I find this timing of still talking about the end of the club strange. Its 18 years since we left Station Rd and we have stumbled from one disaster to another and still the hardcore are here and we survive.It seems to me that the continual talk of demise is easy to predict because one day it could happen and the predictors of doom will be right. No points for doing so.
I dont want to get involved in talk of 2012 because 2011 hasnt even begun!. Lets for once enjoy a season because I predict a big one,and then I can look smart too.

dUFFYMOON,sHIZONAMY - SOME BRILLIANT ideas chaps. And surely the way the club will be looking to go.

Edited by mark richardson, 30 October 2010 - 12:26 PM.

[duffymoon]

It seems to me that the club are trying at the moment and its long overdue. They tried last year too with the apppointment of Paul Smith,but it just went wrong.
I think this year could be our year. I find this timing of still talking about the end of the club strange. Its 18 years since we left Station Rd and we have stumbled from one disaster to another and still the hardcore are here and we survive.It seems to me that the continual talk of demise is easy to predict because one day it could happen and the predictors of doom will be right. No points for doing so.
I dont want to get involved in talk of 2012 because 2011 hasnt even begun!. Lets for once enjoy a season because I predict a big one,and then I can look smart too.

dUFFYMOON,sHIZONAMY - SOME BRILLIANT ideas chaps. And surely the way the club will be looking to go.

Mark if you think its strange to be talking about the end of the club you should have been at the meeting on monday night! Attendances at Sedgley had dropped so low that gate receipts werent even covering the rent! obviously we cant go on much longer surviving on gates of between 300/350.The stark reality was spelt out by JK,the RFL are looking to downgrade some clubs in championship one who are deemed not to be contributing anything .We either improve our fanbase or become nothing more than an amateur outfit,the other alternative is to move the Lions brand to another area.The attendance at the meeting proved there is something to build on! we need Agecroft desperately in the meantime a sustained effort by everyone to promote the club in the locality together with success on the field should boost attendances next season.

[RIGGY]

100% correct Duffymoon.
And there were people there on Monday night who have not been seen at games at Sedgley Park.
Quite a few joined the 2011 membership scheme including Steve McCormack so come on everyone lets get behind the club !!!

[mark richardson]

No duffymoon youve missed my point. We should be looking at long term plans and the future of the club is obviously a point for discussion and concern. What I am saying is that ahead of the brightest looking season for a long time the talk of our demise a season ahead of this one is mistimed.
The way forward discussion though isnt,and I said some superb ideas.By the way Ive explained why I couldnt come on Monday I was at work 5 til 3am.

[PaulT]

It is hard to believe that there have been comments worrying about the 'end of the club' after such a positive meeting.

The stage we're at now is the closest we've been since 1992 to getting a new stadium and I have to take my hat off to John Kidd and the rest of the board. I know John gets a lot of stick on here but call a spade a spade nobody who has ran the club since 1992 have come even a million miles off getting a new ground and we're so close. As far as I can see, I think John Kidd is the only one to make a serious attempt (excluding the M27 Project) about coming home and if he says it's 99.675% certain it's going to come off then I'm 100% behind him and 100% behind the club.

I say forget about this end of the club rubbish and look forward to what looks to be a very good season at the Willows.

If we don't get the news we want in December, then panick, but I think we'll get the news we've been waiting 18+ years for.

On a side note, I know it's been 4 years since John first announced that we had aquired the land for a ground, but it has been 10 years since Salford's was first announced and we're not that far behind them in terms of how far the projects are.

Edited by PaulT, 01 November 2010 - 02:59 PM.

[marshy1]

It is hard to believe that there have been comments worrying about the 'end of the club' after such a positive meeting.

The stage we're at now is the closest we've been since 1992 to getting a new stadium and I have to take my hat off to John Kidd and the rest of the board. I know John gets a lot of stick on here but call a spade a spade nobody who has ran the club since 1992 have come even a million miles off getting a new ground and we're so close. As far as I can see, I think John Kidd is the only one to make a serious attempt (excluding the M27 Project) about coming home and if he says it's 99.675% certain it's going to come off then I'm 100% behind him and 100% behind the club.

I say forget about this end of the club rubbish and look forward to what looks to be a very good season at the Willows.

If we don't get the news we want in December, then panick, but I think we'll get the news we've been waiting 18+ years for.

On a side note, I know it's been 4 years since John first announced that we had aquired the land for a ground, but it has been 10 years since Salford's was first announced and we're not that far behind them in terms of how far the projects are.

Agreed Paul,

There are some who almost take delight in posting all that is bad about the club, often without substance.

I am hopeful we will have a great season with the team we have and fingers crossed we will increase our crowd size.

[kingspeedbump]

Agreed Paul,

There are some who almost take delight in posting all that is bad about the club, often without substance.

I am hopeful we will have a great season with the team we have and fingers crossed we will increase our crowd size.

Without substance?!?!? Its been 4 year of very little communication and very little substance to suggest that the new ground would become a reality. It had taken then 4 years to accumilate £13,000!!!!!

I do hope that there is a move to Agecroft and I'd love to be proven wrong, but I am not holding my breath.

Again, I hope things get better on the field and I'm sure they will do with SMc in charge. But off the field is the issue and I am frustrated with the years of neglect of such a great club, where I feel that it's been treated like a toy for a spoilt child!

[juliancaine]

dont you mean kid

[PhillH]

It is hard to believe that there have been comments worrying about the 'end of the club' after such a positive meeting.

The stage we're at now is the closest we've been since 1992 to getting a new stadium and I have to take my hat off to John Kidd and the rest of the board. I know John gets a lot of stick on here but call a spade a spade nobody who has ran the club since 1992 have come even a million miles off getting a new ground and we're so close. As far as I can see, I think John Kidd is the only one to make a serious attempt (excluding the M27 Project) about coming home and if he says it's 99.675% certain it's going to come off then I'm 100% behind him and 100% behind the club.

I say forget about this end of the club rubbish and look forward to what looks to be a very good season at the Willows.

If we don't get the news we want in December, then panick, but I think we'll get the news we've been waiting 18+ years for.

On a side note, I know it's been 4 years since John first announced that we had aquired the land for a ground, but it has been 10 years since Salford's was first announced and we're not that far behind them in terms of how far the projects are.

A cool look at the hard facts, rather than going off rumour, innuendo and promises, shows that Swinton Lions are miles behind.

Salford City Reds has secured a site that is big enough to house cross-subsidising development and a super league compatible ground side-by-side, the site Swinton Lions has secured is too small for either.

Salford City Reds has secured the top level of detailed planning permission and built partnerships to facilitate construction, which is now progressing at a pace. Swinton Lions has not yet even applied for outline planning permission.

Salford City Reds has secured a funding package for construction of its new ground and backing for community work from Salford City Council worth about £22m. Swinton Lions has apparently raised £13k.

Agreed Paul,

There are some who almost take delight in posting all that is bad about the club, often without substance.

I am hopeful we will have a great season with the team we have and fingers crossed we will increase our crowd size.

There are also some who are in denial about the state of the club off-the-field. So much so that suggestions for improvements are shot down with replies that seek to marginalise and misrepresent them as personal insults. If everything is so rosey, please explain what you think the underlying reasons are for the club becoming unviable at Park Lane and only 4 people turned up to the touch rugby sessions?

I'm all for hope gents, but we must keep it real. The underlying problems need to be addressed. We are reaching a stage where sweeping fundamental problems under the carpet and living on promises won't keep the club alive.