53 replies to this topic

[Bedford Roughyed]

Any minister who puts civil liberties ahead of security should be in student politics, not government.

An MP said that today on twitter...guess the party?

[Millman]

An MP said that today on twitter...guess the party?

Labour.

It should be backed up with "anyone that posts on twitter is a tool".

[gingerjon]

It should be backed up with "anyone that posts on twitter is a tool".

Yet another thing that you and David Cameron agree on.

[Millman]

Yet another thing that you and David Cameron agree on.

What else do he and I agree on?

[gingerjon]

What else do he and I agree on?

The punchline to your favourite joke?

[ckn]

Every single reduction in civil liberties is a "win" for the terrorists. If that idiot Labour MP had his way we'd be cowering in our homes believing that everyone with a dusky skin-tone was out to get us.

More people have died in the UK putting up their Christmas decorations in the last decade than have died from terrorist attacks. More people die in the US every year due to having no healthcare than died in the Sept 11th bombings. If the government put even 1/10th of the assets committed to anti-terrorism towards some of our social and health problems then society would be substantially better.

Look at the difficulties imposed on people flying these days yet any part-way competent terrorist could still easily get bombs on planes if they really wanted to. A part-way competent terrorist could reduce the country's infrastructure to ruins with no difficulty at all yet the police and security services still go after the irrelevant but visible edges to be seen to be "doing something". Keep us afraid and we'll let them have more money and more power, very Orwellian.

The idiot's twitter feed

Another nice one from there: "Yes, I'm advocating McCarthyism"

Some people in the Labour party have slid so far towards the nutjobs on this issue that they're now just like the lonely old guy down the Legion still warning people to beware of the Germans.

[Millman]

The punchline to your favourite joke?

You're my favourite joke.

[Northern Sol]

Every single reduction in civil liberties is a "win" for the terrorists. If that idiot Labour MP had his way we'd be cowering in our homes believing that everyone with a dusky skin-tone was out to get us.

No, a "victory for the terrorists" is death and destruction or the West coming to adopt the values of Al Qaeda. Bin Laden doesn't give a ***** whether you have to carry an ID card or not.

More people have died in the UK putting up their Christmas decorations in the last decade than have died from terrorist attacks. More people die in the US every year due to having no healthcare than died in the Sept 11th bombings. If the government put even 1/10th of the assets committed to anti-terrorism towards some of our social and health problems then society would be substantially better.

The fact that (relatively speaking) few have died is a result of them taking the problem seriously. Granted they could wait until it becomes a more serious issue but it is rather easier to tackle it now. They could have taken steps a decade or two ago as all the warning signs were there already. Had they done so we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.

Look at the difficulties imposed on people flying these days yet any part-way competent terrorist could still easily get bombs on planes if they really wanted to. A part-way competent terrorist could reduce the country's infrastructure to ruins with no difficulty at all yet the police and security services still go after the irrelevant but visible edges to be seen to be "doing something". Keep us afraid and we'll let them have more money and more power, very Orwellian.

The idiot's twitter feed

Another nice one from there: "Yes, I'm advocating McCarthyism"

Some people in the Labour party have slid so far towards the nutjobs on this issue that they're now just like the lonely old guy down the Legion still warning people to beware of the Germans.

Except the Germans stopped fighting 65 years ago. When Al Qaeda and their ilk give up attacks, it will become remotely comparable.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Every single reduction in civil liberties is a "win" for the terrorists. If that idiot Labour MP had his way we'd be cowering in our homes believing that everyone with a dusky skin-tone was out to get us.

More people have died in the UK putting up their Christmas decorations in the last decade than have died from terrorist attacks. More people die in the US every year due to having no healthcare than died in the Sept 11th bombings. If the government put even 1/10th of the assets committed to anti-terrorism towards some of our social and health problems then society would be substantially better.

Look at the difficulties imposed on people flying these days yet any part-way competent terrorist could still easily get bombs on planes if they really wanted to. A part-way competent terrorist could reduce the country's infrastructure to ruins with no difficulty at all yet the police and security services still go after the irrelevant but visible edges to be seen to be "doing something". Keep us afraid and we'll let them have more money and more power, very Orwellian.

The idiot's twitter feed

Another nice one from there: "Yes, I'm advocating McCarthyism"

Some people in the Labour party have slid so far towards the nutjobs on this issue that they're now just like the lonely old guy down the Legion still warning people to beware of the Germans.

Its along the same lines as stopping photographers in case they are a terrorist reconnaissance team. Despite google maps, earth, street view and the small matter of a suicide terrorist not being too bothered if caught on CCTV. It does give people the impression things are being done.

ID cards so police could identify the suicade bombers after the event.

Orwell got it right, though I think even he would of thought it would of been the tories doing it.

[ckn]

No, a "victory for the terrorists" is death and destruction or the West coming to adopt the values of Al Qaeda. Bin Laden doesn't give a ***** whether you have to carry an ID card or not.

Exactly. They'd achieve nothing bar make life more difficult for those of us who are not terrorists. Same as every other restriction in place. They don't hinder terrorists one bit but make our lives that little bit more difficult every time.

The fact that (relatively speaking) few have died is a result of them taking the problem seriously. Granted they could wait until it becomes a more serious issue but it is rather easier to tackle it now. They could have taken steps a decade or two ago as all the warning signs were there already. Had they done so we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.

On that point. On telly over the weekend, I watched "Russell Howard's Good News", there was a clip of an American town upset at thousands of dollars being used to rip up garlic plants along the side of the road. They were planted to stop vampires. One concerned Councillor defended the plants saying "The only reason we had garlic put in was so we could keep the vampires out of town. And since we have had garlic I haven't seen one single solitary vampire in town." Link

Have a think about this. If you wanted to cause chaos in Britain and had ready access to stuff you can easily buy from B&Q where would you target? I can think of hundreds of places I would "hit" and the security services would have absolutely no chance of stopping me. Not one penny of the billions going into the security services and police could stop a terrorist with 1/10th of a brain cell. Next time you're walking through a shopping centre, train station, bus station or sport ground just take the time to look at all the places you could casually drop a backpack bomb and no-one would see it until it's too late.

[sam]

Have a think about this. If you wanted to cause chaos in Britain and had ready access to stuff you can easily buy from B&Q where would you target? I can think of hundreds of places I would "hit" and the security services would have absolutely no chance of stopping me. Not one penny of the billions going into the security services and police could stop a terrorist with 1/10th of a brain cell. Next time you're walking through a shopping centre, train station, bus station or sport ground just take the time to look at all the places you could casually drop a backpack bomb and no-one would see it until it's too late.

when we don't hear from you for a while, are we to assume the fbi/mi5 have been reading this forum.

[Northern Sol]

Exactly. They'd achieve nothing bar make life more difficult for those of us who are not terrorists. Same as every other restriction in place. They don't hinder terrorists one bit but make our lives that little bit more difficult every time.

It is your view that they don't hinder terrorism one bit. It is certainly not mine. What I disagreed with is that you are presenting the view that "Bin Laden wants you to carry ID cards"; this is absurd as Bush's "with us or with them" speech. Bin Laden would not view this as any kind of victory, it is utterly irrelevant to his cause.

On that point. On telly over the weekend, I watched "Russell Howard's Good News", there was a clip of an American town upset at thousands of dollars being used to rip up garlic plants along the side of the road. They were planted to stop vampires. One concerned Councillor defended the plants saying "The only reason we had garlic put in was so we could keep the vampires out of town. And since we have had garlic I haven't seen one single solitary vampire in town." Link

Vampires don't exist. However, I think there is pretty good evidence that Islamist suicide bombers do exist. Why would you put them in the same category?

Have a think about this. If you wanted to cause chaos in Britain and had ready access to stuff you can easily buy from B&Q where would you target? I can think of hundreds of places I would "hit" and the security services would have absolutely no chance of stopping me. Not one penny of the billions going into the security services and police could stop a terrorist with 1/10th of a brain cell. Next time you're walking through a shopping centre, train station, bus station or sport ground just take the time to look at all the places you could casually drop a backpack bomb and no-one would see it until it's too late.

You expect Al Qaeda to share your views on what constitutes a target?

You are right that there are dozens of "soft targets" that they could easily strike and yet they don't. The reason being that Keighley B&Q isn't somewhere that anyone from outside Keighley has heard of or cares about. The London Underground, the Houses of Parliament and Heathrow on the other hand are world famous - that's why they are major targets.

[Northern Sol]

when we don't hear from you for a while, are we to assume the fbi/mi5 have been reading this forum.

Or possibly B&Q, they take their security very seriously and are second only to Mossad in active terrorism prevention.

[gingerjon]

The London Underground, the Houses of Parliament and Heathrow on the other hand are world famous - that's why they are major targets.

Anybody with the inclination and a steady hand could cause major damage to any of those without really trying.

[ckn]

when we don't hear from you for a while, are we to assume the fbi/mi5 have been reading this forum.

In army training, and in detail again before going to Northern Ireland, we were given personal security briefings. They give you a very different perspective on how vulnerable the country really is if a terrorist is committed enough and has enough resources.

[Northern Sol]

Anybody with the inclination and a steady hand could cause major damage to any of those without really trying.

Indeed?

[gingerjon]

Indeed?

You think they'd be hard to hit?

[Northern Sol]

You think they'd be hard to hit?

That depends on what your goals are i.e. what Al Qaeda consider "a hit" to be.

[ckn]

You are right that there are dozens of "soft targets" that they could easily strike and yet they don't. The reason being that Keighley B&Q isn't somewhere that anyone from outside Keighley has heard of or cares about. The London Underground, the Houses of Parliament and Heathrow on the other hand are world famous - that's why they are major targets.

I mentioned B&Q as somewhere you can buy components very easily way beyond safe limits.

Also, I didn't mean Keighley B&Q as a target, that'd be silly. Just think how busy any major city's train station is at 8:30am or 5:30pm. What about outside a football ground at 2:45 on a Saturday. Lakeside shopping centre has 500,000 visitors per week and is packed out on Saturdays and Sundays, especially coming up to Christmas. I could go on for hours about places that would guarantee front page coverage for weeks for even the tiniest of bombs with no casualties.

Edit (hit post too early): Causing death is a secondary objective of a terrorist bomb, causing terror is the primary objective. You can only kill someone once, you can however terrorise a population repeatedly into changing their way of life to suit your goals.

[gingerjon]

That depends on what your goals are i.e. what Al Qaeda consider "a hit" to be.

Kill a few people, scare a load more, seriously damage a landmark ...

All of your targets could be hit on that scale tomorrow. They really could.