48 replies to this topic

[costa]

I dont understand why you have never been asked by HMRC to pay over tax fro your earnings, The RFL will have a list of all match fees paid which would be nice and easy for the revnue to ask for.I know Rugby Union referees declare their income and would be very surprized if most League refs dont.Wouldnt like your tax bill if the revenue decided to cover your last 6years even when you claim your travel expenses with intrest and penatlies.

I would be very surprised if the RFL held records of fees paid to officials in the junior, youth and regional playing leagues, where fees are paid cash-in-hand and often without a receipt or other physical record.

[tim2]

IMO referees are not paid enough for what they have to put up with at some clubs. I referee because I love the game, but I won't lie and say that the money doesn't matter because it does. I think a fee around the £30 mark (+ mileage) for all open age games would be fairer, with a fee of £20-£25 for junior/youth games.

I actually disagree with that. I think it should be expenses only (which I think is the case for Rugby Union refs) although the IR does allow up to 40p per mile, which is a heck of a lot. I very rarely take anywhere near the full fee, especially for my local teams and development sides. I have had discussions and disagreements with other refs about this and I can envisage that minimising the amount paid would mean some refs would pack in and we have too few refs at the moment.

I ref because it's the best way to de directly involved in the game (I am too old to play the contact version and hate coaching) - if the abuse and other ###### got too much I'd just do something else.

[ckn]

I actually disagree with that. I think it should be expenses only (which I think is the case for Rugby Union refs) although the IR does allow up to 40p per mile, which is a heck of a lot. I very rarely take anywhere near the full fee, especially for my local teams and development sides. I have had discussions and disagreements with other refs about this and I can envisage that minimising the amount paid would mean some refs would pack in and we have too few refs at the moment.

I ref because it's the best way to de directly involved in the game (I am too old to play the contact version and hate coaching) - if the abuse and other ###### got too much I'd just do something else.

Union refs get expenses only unless they're the top-end full-time referees. RFU rate for mileage is 36p per mile. Clubs pay a flat match fee to the refs' society and refs claim expenses from the society meaning clubs aren't overly punished if a ref is sent from a long way away.

[tim2]

Union refs get expenses only unless they're the top-end full-time referees. RFU rate for mileage is 36p per mile. Clubs pay a flat match fee to the refs' society and refs claim expenses from the society meaning clubs aren't overly punished if a ref is sent from a long way away.

That sounds sensible to me, but it does mean that the Societies have to be better organised that most of the RL ones are.

It also avoids the refs having to extract cash from the clubs on the day, which can be difficult in some situations.

[BARRETT]

I disagree totally that referees should get more money. I personally think they get too much now for participating in our amateur game.

Sub-standard referees - or mere kids - getting nigh on £30 a game, and £25 for doing a kids game is a disgrace! Amateur clubs running kids teams very often have the same referee doing 2 games in a morning - say an U-13s followed by an U-18s and raking in in excess of £50. It's a disgrace that they are allowed to charge full fees and not a reduced fee for the second game. On top of that, they could well have had an open age game on the Saturday. I've not even mentioned yet those that pick up money doing college games midweek. The NCL are now in the position where they have to pay £25 for two TJs.

My club paid over £140 in officials' fees one weekend, and I know some clubs pay more who have more teams. We also made the mistake of sending one of our U-16s on a referees course. We've not seen him since!! Too busy making money now to play rugby!

I voted against the last referees increase in fees - and I shall certainly (but more loudly!) vote against any future increases.


Well done tim2 for being so understanding of your local clubs!

Edited by BARRETT, 15 November 2010 - 02:41 PM.

[costa]

I disagree totally that referees should get more money. I personally think they get too much now for participating in our amateur game.

Sub-standard referees - or mere kids - getting nigh on £30 a game, and £25 for doing a kids game is a disgrace! Amateur clubs running kids teams very often have the same referee doing 2 games in a morning - say an U-13s followed by an U-18s and raking in in excess of £50. It's a disgrace that they are allowed to charge full fees and not a reduced fee for the second game. On top of that, they could well have had an open age game on the Saturday. I've not even mentioned yet those that pick up money doing college games midweek. The NCL are now in the position where they have to pay £25 for two TJs.

My club paid over £140 in officials' fees one weekend, and I know some clubs pay more who have more teams. We also made the mistake of sending one of our U-16s on a referees course. We've not seen him since!! Too busy making money now to play rugby!

I voted against the last referees increase in fees - and I shall certainly (but more loudly!) vote against any future increases.


Well done tim2 for being so understanding of your local clubs!

Paying referees for officiating a game of rugby league is not a disgrace.

On the issue of second games, why should a referee be paid a reduced fee? Do they put in a reduced effort? Of course they don't. I give up valuable family time to do two games on a Saturday or Sunday and I think it's only fair that I am suitably rewarded for making such a sacrifice.

I understand that clubs operate on a tight budget, but referees fees is not the area you should be looking at to make savings. If we go back to the original topic of this thread, if clubs stopped getting fined for foul play and other misdemenours then they will find that they have a few more pennies in the bank.

Edited by costa, 15 November 2010 - 03:26 PM.

[ckn]

I disagree totally that referees should get more money. I personally think they get too much now for participating in our amateur game.

Sub-standard referees - or mere kids - getting nigh on £30 a game, and £25 for doing a kids game is a disgrace! Amateur clubs running kids teams very often have the same referee doing 2 games in a morning - say an U-13s followed by an U-18s and raking in in excess of £50. It's a disgrace that they are allowed to charge full fees and not a reduced fee for the second game. On top of that, they could well have had an open age game on the Saturday. I've not even mentioned yet those that pick up money doing college games midweek. The NCL are now in the position where they have to pay £25 for two TJs.

My club paid over £140 in officials' fees one weekend, and I know some clubs pay more who have more teams. We also made the mistake of sending one of our U-16s on a referees course. We've not seen him since!! Too busy making money now to play rugby!

I voted against the last referees increase in fees - and I shall certainly (but more loudly!) vote against any future increases.


Well done tim2 for being so understanding of your local clubs!

My own view is that if you're at the level where you're paying players then you should be paying referees. If players (or coaches for youth games) aren't getting paid then refs should only get expenses.

That said, if the only way you can get enough refs to cover all the games is by paying them then clubs need to take that into account when grumbling about the cost of referees.

[costa]

That said, if the only way you can get enough refs to cover all the games is by paying them then clubs need to take that into account when grumbling about the cost of referees.

There is a saying which goes,

"If you pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys".

Some clubs don't even want to pay peanuts, but are the first to complain when there aren't enough monkeys to cover their U11s game or swing from tree to tree down a NCL touchline.....

Edited by costa, 15 November 2010 - 03:59 PM.

[tim2]

Well done tim2 for being so understanding of your local clubs!

Possibly because I'm the chairman of a club as well.

[hairywombat]

I give up valuable family time to do two games on a Saturday or Sunday and I think it's only fair that I am suitably rewarded for making such a sacrifice.

So you're only in it for the money then Costa, at least you're honest.

Edited by hairywombat, 15 November 2010 - 04:23 PM.

[costa]

I give up valuable family time to do two games on a Saturday or Sunday and I think it's only fair that I am suitably rewarded for making such a sacrifice.

So you're only in it for the money then Costa, at least you're honest.

I really enjoy refereeing but if the money wasn't there I'd probably not do it, not with the level of abuse and other stresses it brings.

[BARRETT]

I really enjoy refereeing but if the money wasn't there I'd probably not do it, not with the level of abuse and other stresses it brings.

Other stresses it brings?? Wow - you want to try and run an amateur club mate!

You want to try working as a volunteer, probably in excess of 30 hours a week running an amatuer club - but as you state, if the money wasn't there, you probably wouldn't do it.

I have to say that you have the attitude that so disappoints us amateurs who really do work for the love of the game.

[BARRETT]

There is a saying which goes,

"If you pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys".

Some clubs don't even want to pay peanuts, but are the first to complain when there aren't enough monkeys to cover their U11s game or swing from tree to tree down a NCL touchline.....

I presume by your comments Costa(lot) that if we doubled your 'expenses' you'd up your game!

[costa]

I presume by your comments Costa(lot) that if we doubled your 'expenses' you'd up your game!

It's common sense to think that that if a greater financial incentive was offered, more people would try their hand at refereeing. A larger pool of officials would allow us to cover all amateur games and improve refereeing standards.

[revtype]

It's common sense to think that that if a greater financial incentive was offered, more people would try their hand at refereeing. A larger pool of officials would allow us to cover all amateur games and improve refereeing standards.

They`ve made SL refs full-time employed have standards improved ?

[once a ref always a ref]

To simplify the fees system travelling expenses were incorporated into the fee it is therefore nonsense for clubs having to pay the full fee twice; it is also a disgrace that referees take it.

[once a ref always a ref]

It's common sense to think that that if a greater financial incentive was offered, more people would try their hand at refereeing. A larger pool of officials would allow us to cover all amateur games and improve refereeing standards.

No it isn't common sense. Increasing the fee would attract people who are only in it for the money and standards would drop.

[costa]

No it isn't common sense. Increasing the fee would attract people who are only in it for the money and standards would drop.

That is, with respect, absolute rubbish.

Using your logic, Dewsbury Celtic are of a higher standard than Leeds Rhinos. Ok, that's over the top, but to suggest that paying referees would lower standards is frankly ridiculous.

[once a ref always a ref]

That is, with respect, absolute rubbish.

Using your logic, Dewsbury Celtic are of a higher standard than Leeds Rhinos. Ok, that's over the top, but to suggest that paying referees would lower standards is frankly ridiculous.

Where did I suggest paying referees, don't they already get paid? You think that if a ref is paid more he will be better and you accuse me of talking rubbish!

[hairywombat]

That is, with respect, absolute rubbish.

Using your logic, Dewsbury Celtic are of a higher standard than Leeds Rhinos. Ok, that's over the top, but to suggest that paying referees would lower standards is frankly ridiculous.

Costa, how on earth would a referee be any better if he got paid more? In an ideal world a referee would give what he sees, ( or what his touchjudge advises him ) no matter how much he's on.