227 replies to this topic

[bigred]

Sickening abuse of vulnerable young girls by Asian males!
On the plus side (if there is one in a story like this) credit must go to the police and Social Services and charities that have worked hard to secure evidence and convictions in this case. Also, the undoubted bravery of the young girls in question in testifying against the abusers.
Hopefully, severe sentences will follow to ensure a message is sent to others that this sort of grooming and exploitation has no place in civilised society!
Link

Edited by bigred, 24 November 2010 - 04:48 PM.

[WearyRhino]

Sickening abuse of vulnerable young girls by Asian males!
On the plus side (if there is one in a story like this) credit must go to the police and Social Services and charities that have worked hard to secure evidence and convictions in this case. Also, the undoubted bravery of the young girls in question in testifying against the abusers.
Hopefully, severe sentences will follow to ensure a message is sent to others that this sort of grooming and exploitation has no place in civilised society!
Link

Clearly appalling but I cannot see the relevance of their ethnic origin.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Clearly appalling but I cannot see the relevance of their ethnic origin.

that's what I was thinking

[bigred]

You know, in view of the way some threads have gone recently, I thought long and hard about putting their ethnic origin in the post. However, as this sort of 'gang grooming' of young girls is becoming ever more prevalent in the towns and cities of the North ( I cannot say for certain about the South too) and is unfortunately almost exclusively carried out by Asian males, then to not have done so would have been folly!
It's a serious issue, and one I happen to have close experience of, with quite a few of my work colleagues having done a lot of work with GMP and their Operation Messenger scheme in the Oldham area.
It's not a case of demonising all young men of Asian heritage, but rather admitting that it is a problem with it's origins lying with the attitudes of some Asian males towards young white females!
Of course there are many black and white abusers too, but they don't tend to be as organised and systematic as the above gangs!

[Martyn Sadler]

that's what I was thinking

Angelo, you started a thread on the Cross-code forum about a player presumably from an ethnic minority who played for Scotland at the weekend.

Unfortunately we can't just focus on ethnic status when someone achieves something positive.

In this case the fact that the men who committed these crimes, combined with the apparent prevalence of the crime committed by similar groups in different parts of the country, makes the ethnic background of the convicted criminals unfortunately relevant to the story.

To deny that is to deny that there is a specific problem affecting some members of this ethnic group, which does need to be sorted out, preferably by the Asian community itself.

[nadera78]

A few years ago Channel 4 made a documentary about the activities of Asian gangs in several northern cities. They were searching out vulnerable, under age, white girls who they would befriend and then give drugs and alcohol. Then they would force them into prositution.

The police put presure on C4 not to air the documentary for fear of upsetting community relations. It took about 18months, but eventually C4 did show the programme.

[bowes]

You know, in view of the way some threads have gone recently, I thought long and hard about putting their ethnic origin in the post. However, as this sort of 'gang grooming' of young girls is becoming ever more prevalent in the towns and cities of the North ( I cannot say for certain about the South too) and is unfortunately almost exclusively carried out by Asian males, then to not have done so would have been folly!
It's a serious issue, and one I happen to have close experience of, with quite a few of my work colleagues having done a lot of work with GMP and their Operation Messenger scheme in the Oldham area.
It's not a case of demonising all young men of Asian heritage, but rather admitting that it is a problem with it's origins lying with the attitudes of some Asian males towards young white females!
Of course there are many black and white abusers too, but they don't tend to be as organised and systematic as the above gangs!

Most Asians in Coventry are Sikh and they have a very low crime rate, significantly lower than white people. I don't think it's fair to tar Hindus or Asian Christians with this same 'Asian' label either.

Apparently it's also a much more common problem among the northern Pakistanis than among the Bangladeshis of London (not actually heard any accounts about the latter, so presumably not an issue). Possibly the fact that segregation up north is more entrenched than elsewhere is a factor as it means people have less respect for other groups?

[exxile]

Clearly appalling but I cannot see the relevance of their ethnic origin.

I think you can, but just can't bring yourself to admit it.

Do you see any similarities with this case?
http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-10844915

Also, why is anyone describing them as 'Asians'? All these cases are committed by one small subset of 'Asians'; all from the same ethnic grouping, and all from the same religion. They are not Chinese, Korean or Indian, nor are they Buddhist, Sikh, Shintoist or Hindu.

We all know this is happening, and denying it merely condemns more young girls to more of the same.

[bigred]

The above posters are right in that I was probably too general in my use of the term 'Asian'. Yes, it is the case (certainly in the Oldham area) that these crimes are committed by men predominantly from the Pakistani community and yes there is very little crime from members of our Chinese and Indian communities. It wasn't my intention to scapegoat any community in general at all.

[Millman]

The chances are that these men are British, not Asian.

[Millman]

I think you can, but just can't bring yourself to admit it.

Do you see any similarities with this case?
http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-10844915

Also, why is anyone describing them as 'Asians'? All these cases are committed by one small subset of 'Asians'; all from the same ethnic grouping, and all from the same religion. They are not Chinese, Korean or Indian, nor are they Buddhist, Sikh, Shintoist or Hindu.

We all know this is happening, and denying it merely condemns more young girls to more of the same.

True to form.

[bigred]

The chances are that these men are British, not Asian.

You are right - British men of Pakistani heritage!
Men being the operative word - many in their 20's and 30's!

[Steve May]

Sickening abuse of vulnerable young girls by Asian males!
On the plus side (if there is one in a story like this) credit must go to the police and Social Services and charities that have worked hard to secure evidence and convictions in this case. Also, the undoubted bravery of the young girls in question in testifying against the abusers.
Hopefully, severe sentences will follow to ensure a message is sent to others that this sort of grooming and exploitation has no place in civilised society!
Link

What these men have done is appalling. Is there a known racial element in their crimes or is that just speculation?

[bigred]

What these men have done is appalling. Is there a known racial element in their crimes or is that just speculation?

If you mean 'are these men abusing young girls for no other reason than that they are white' then the answer from the evidence in Oldham at least would be no. It's more likely that young white girls are involved simply because they are more 'available' than young Pakistani and Bangladeshi girls, more visible on the streets maybe? Have a read at reports of recent cases in Oldham, Burnley, Blackburn, Manchester etc, they all follow a very similar pattern of befriending, grooming and then eventually abusing their victims.
If you mean 'racial' in terms of a commonality in ethnic origin of the perpetrators then yes, there is.

[Northern Sol]

If you mean 'are these men abusing young girls for no other reason than that they are white' then the answer from the evidence in Oldham at least would be no. It's more likely that young white girls are involved simply because they are more 'available' than young Pakistani and Bangladeshi girls, more visible on the streets maybe? Have a read at reports of recent cases in Oldham, Burnley, Blackburn, Manchester etc, they all follow a very similar pattern of befriending, grooming and then eventually abusing their victims.
If you mean 'racial' in terms of a commonality in ethnic origin of the perpetrators then yes, there is.

It is quite possible that white girls are deemed to be sluts who "have it coming" but only the perpetrators know for sure why they did it.

[bowes]

If you mean 'are these men abusing young girls for no other reason than that they are white' then the answer from the evidence in Oldham at least would be no. It's more likely that young white girls are involved simply because they are more 'available' than young Pakistani and Bangladeshi girls, more visible on the streets maybe? Have a read at reports of recent cases in Oldham, Burnley, Blackburn, Manchester etc, they all follow a very similar pattern of befriending, grooming and then eventually abusing their victims.
If you mean 'racial' in terms of a commonality in ethnic origin of the perpetrators then yes, there is.

I think a lot is down to how in the Muslim Community it isn't accepted for men to have casual sex, only in marriage. This isn't an issue for strict Muslims who are happy to follow their religion, but for 'bad' Muslims it is as unless say a bad Christian there's no normal route to casual sex. Thus they have to use these underhand methods.

As for why the victims are white, they could just as easily be black or Chinese, but the point is they have a strong concept of honour so don't want to dishonour their own Muslim girls. On the other hand they view 'kaffir' girls as already dishonourable. As to why they'd care when they don't follow the religion is there's a strong tribal identity involved in being a 'Muslim' even if you may drink alcohol and gang rape white girls.

[Martyn Sadler]

One of the difficulties with Islam is that its holy book was written at a time when the nascent Islamic community, led by Mohammed, was constantly at war with many other tribes, many of them Jewish.
They would often kill their opponents but take their women as slaves. The Koran gave permission to the Muslims to have sex with the women they captured, which I imagine often meant that they could rape their victims, as long as the women were not Muslims themselves. It's rather easy to extend that logic to the present day, if you are so inclined.
It would be interesting to know whether the men committing these crimes actually regard themselves as genuine Muslims who are simply putting into effect those selective elements of their holy book, in the same way that the members of Al Qaeda are convinced that they are doing the bidding of the Koran.

[The Bobster]

The chances are that these men are British, not Asian.

But 100% Muslim

[Wolford6]

It would be interesting to know whether the men committing these crimes actually regard themselves as genuine Muslims who are simply putting into effect those selective elements of their holy book, in the same way that the members of Al Qaeda are convinced that they are doing the bidding of the Koran.

I cant see them justifying their crimes to themselves as being in line with their religious bteachings, that's just a pathetic excuse they use when they get caught.

In the case of the Bradford's moslems who get up to this sort of thing, I doubt if they respect the Koran any more than they respect anything else. They are generally less successful at school than any other ethnic group and show little interest in education. They think they are above the law because the police are deterred by central government from enforcing civil law within the moslem housing-zones. Many youths in their community aspire to an outlaw status ... it's the only way they'll make money as, having few occupational or social skills, they are realistically unlikely to get a career job.


I bet this pair turn up in court and say "We needed these weapons to defend ourselves against other drug dealers, but we would never have used them unless we were actually attacked. We are strict moslems and would never use violence unless provoked to defend our families."

http://www.thetelegr..._Bradford_home/

[Trojan]

One of the difficulties with Islam is that its holy book was written at a time when the nascent Islamic community, led by Mohammed, was constantly at war with many other tribes, many of them Jewish.
They would often kill their opponents but take their women as slaves. The Koran gave permission to the Muslims to have sex with the women they captured, which I imagine often meant that they could rape their victims, as long as the women were not Muslims themselves. It's rather easy to extend that logic to the present day, if you are so inclined.
It would be interesting to know whether the men committing these crimes actually regard themselves as genuine Muslims who are simply putting into effect those selective elements of their holy book, in the same way that the members of Al Qaeda are convinced that they are doing the bidding of the Koran.

Much of the stuff we object to in the Koran is also in the Bible. September 11 was an apalling atrocity. But it's only four hundred years since a band of Catholic terrorists tried to blow up the king in parliament. In the century before both Catholics and Protestants were burned at the stake for their religion. In England. There were plenty of atrocities commiteed by the Crusaders - arguably holy warriors - "crusader" is still a term of abuse among Muslims.
Before condemning a whole religion for the horrors perpetrated by the few we'd do well to look at our own history.