23 replies to this topic

[JohnM]

Its cold, its snowy, its icy and there is no rugby to watch, so for those of you sensible enough to stay indoors, here's an opportunity. Design your Labour Manifesto for Ed Miliband. I must stress I don't want this to degenerate into a political slanging match. I genuinely would like to see what you think he should have in it and why. I've listed some categories and would like specifically to exclude issues of immigration and religion for obvious reasons.

So what should be Labours position on these. please add any I have missed

1. Housing
- owner occupation
- private rented sector
- public rented sector
- housing associations
- local authority housing


2. Education
- primary
- secondary
- tertiary

3. Health
- NHS
- private
- mixed
- financing health care

4. Transport
- road
- rail
- sea
- air

5. Finance
- the city
- the banks
- lending

6. Employment

7. Benefits

8. Defence

9. Regional development

9. Taxation

10. Media

I'm sure there are other categories , too.

[Trojan]

Its cold, its snowy, its icy and there is no rugby to watch, so for those of you sensible enough to stay indoors, here's an opportunity. Design your Labour Manifesto for Ed Miliband. I must stress I don't want this to degenerate into a political slanging match. I genuinely would like to see what you think he should have in it and why. I've listed some categories and would like specifically to exclude issues of immigration and religion for obvious reasons.

So what should be Labours position on these. please add any I have missed

1. Housing
- owner occupation
- private rented sector
- public rented sector
- housing associations
- local authority housing


2. Education
- primary
- secondary
- tertiary

3. Health
- NHS
- private
- mixed
- financing health care

4. Transport
- road
- rail
- sea
- air

5. Finance
- the city
- the banks
- lending

6. Employment

7. Benefits

8. Defence

9. Regional development

9. Taxation

10. Media

I'm sure there are other categories , too.

It's also too early for specific policies. No one could get out of this lot at a similar stage what their policies were going to be. One reason of course as someone perceptively said on the politics programme yesterday, any that are rubbish will be rubbished by their opponents leaving a permanent stain, and any that are any good will be nicked.

[John Drake]

I must stress I don't want this to degenerate into a political slanging match.

Good luck with that one.

I genuinely would like to see what you think he should have in it and why. I've listed some categories and would like specifically to exclude issues of immigration and religion for obvious reasons.

So what should be Labours position on these. please add any I have missed

John, you are one of Labour's biggest critics on here, so it would be interesting to know what it would need to have in it to persuade you to vote for them, or is that an impossible task?

[Bitofaboogie]

Its cold, its snowy, its icy and there is no rugby to watch, so for those of you sensible enough to stay indoors, here's an opportunity. Design your Labour Manifesto for Ed Miliband. I must stress I don't want this to degenerate into a political slanging match. I genuinely would like to see what you think he should have in it and why. I've listed some categories and would like specifically to exclude issues of immigration and religion for obvious reasons.

So what should be Labours position on these. please add any I have missed

1. Housing
- owner occupation
- private rented sector
- public rented sector
- housing associations
- local authority housing


2. Education
- primary
- secondary
- tertiary

3. Health
- NHS
- private
- mixed
- financing health care

4. Transport
- road
- rail
- sea
- air

5. Finance
- the city
- the banks
- lending

6. Employment

7. Benefits

8. Defence

9. Regional development

9. Taxation

10. Media

I'm sure there are other categories , too.

Miliband isn't daft - he knows that his best policy is to keep quiet and let Cameron & Clegg do all the running - it's working so far so I doubt that he will change any time soon.

Very easy time to be in opposition at the moment.

[shrek]

No one could get out of this lot at a similar stage what their policies were going to be.

Didn't stem the flow of criticism though did it, both on here and from the PM of the time.

[Trojan]

Didn't stem the flow of criticism though did it, both on here and from the PM of the time.

Whats' wrong with that? If you fundamentally disagree with where a poliltical party is coming from (and that's me and the Tories) why shouldn't you criticise them?

[JohnM]

Good luck with that one.



John, you are one of Labour's biggest critics on here, so it would be interesting to know what it would need to have in it to persuade you to vote for them, or is that an impossible task?

No, Its not an impossible task and I'll have a go a bit later on.

For the record, in the early days of teh last administration, I supported quite s lot of what Blair was doing.

In addition, if its too early for specific polices, then what would be the broad principles under which Labour should no operate.

In fact, though, my intent was not to pre-judge was Miliband would propose, but to see what the Labour supporters on here would want to put forward..and again, not to slag off but to see how the ideas would work.

[JohnM]

Whats' wrong with that? If you fundamentally disagree with where a poliltical party is coming from (and that's me and the Tories) why shouldn't you criticise them?

What I'm trying to see ( and I won't counter with my usual response, honestly!) is what you think should be the policies and how they might work, in their own right, without mentioning the word Coalition or Cameron or Clegg.

[stimpo-and-kat]

I would go through it from a Tory votors POV but Im not sure if I had a specific position on each of the categories such as media other that what about them

[stimpo-and-kat]

Go on then, I'll stick my neck out

1. Housing
- owner occupation - not the be and all it was once considered. Still a major generator of wealth and long term a sound investment.
- private rented sector - For those looking to buy, or not wanting to buy, this is where they should be.
- public rented sector - is this intended to be council housing? if it is im a little confused what the difference is between this and local authority housing. Either way this should be short term and by no means a right. Council housing should be there for those who genuinely need it. Once a persons situation improves they should be expected to move into the private rental market or home ownership. By no means should a family where both adults work be in council housing.
- housing associations - no real position on it.
- local authority housing - see public rented sector


2. Education - no real position
- primary
- secondary
- tertiary

3. Health - no real position
- NHS
- private
- mixed
- financing health care

4. Transport - no real position
- road
- rail
- sea
- air

5. Finance
- the city - if you gamble, you eventually lose. The reason investment bankers get paid so much is because they make money. Ive no problem with their salaries or bonuses
- the banks - Tighten up the rules, allow the delfation of the housing market to return houses back to actual value rather than the over inflated prices before the 'bust'. Allow easier entry into retail banking to encourage competition
- lending - force banks that have taken public money to increase lending to small businesses that are sound investments

6. Employment - reduce size of public sector, bring pay and benefits into line with public sector. End job for life mentality. Encourage services to be sub contracted to private sector where cost effective

7. Benefits - Those who are long term unemplyed to be put to work in the community as work experience. Benefits to be reduced. Scrap Child tax credits, if you cannot afford children do not have them, if you chose to have children when you cannot afford it you take responsibility for your own actions. Scrap working tax credits and family allowance for households earning more than national average for all children in that household

8. Defence - weve made the mess in iraq and afghanistan, we cannot pull out just because the enemy is fighting back. Weve helped make the mess, we need to fix it.

9. Regional development - no real position

9. Taxation - i like the idea of increasing personal allowances to 10k. This ties in with my support of scrapping things like working tax credits and child tax credits in how it can be paid for. Keep basic rate at 20%. Keep 40% where it is and a 45% at 100k as opposed to 50%

10. Media - no real position

[JohnM]

Miliband isn't daft - he knows that his best policy is to keep quiet and let Cameron & Clegg do all the running - it's working so far so I doubt that he will change any time soon.

Very easy time to be in opposition at the moment.

That is not what I was looking for, really.

I was looking to find out what the dedicated Labour supporters on here would want to see, and why.

[JohnM]

Go on then, I'll stick my neck out

Is that what you'd want to see in a Labour manifesto?

For example, where you write, public rented sector - is this intended to be council housing?.... should be short term and by no means a right. Council housing should be there for those who genuinely need it. Once a persons situation improves they should be expected to move into the private rental market or home ownership. By no means should a family where both adults work be in council housing.

I'd interprets that as say, all council houses to be let on five years ( or 4 or 6 or 10 etc) leases with automatic renewal based on re-qualification. Transfer all social housing to local authority control ( or to housing association control if that is better)

Private sector rental to be free from rent control ( or bring back rent control?) that sort of thing.

[Trojan]

I'll probably regret this:
This where I come from, none of what’s below will reach any manifesto I suppose, but it’s a distillation of how I see society.

1. Housing: make owner occupation the best and cheapest option for most people-- but build cheap public housing for those who still can’t afford to buy




2 Education: Abolish the charitable status of Eton etc. Make private education difficult

In order to ensure that the most articulate and financially powerful people

are involved in state education where they could probably make a

difference

3 Health : Similar to education – get rid of much private provision for the same

Reason. No more major changes though to whatever the Tories have done to the organisation- live with it and see if it works



4 Transport: Make sure road transport pays a fair whack towards what it’s actual costs are in terms of road use, disruption caused by large vehicles the cost of policing. In order to bring their costs in line with the railways – much the cheapest way to move goods – ok road transport looks cheaper, but someone is paying the hidden costs that rail has to foot. Long term, build more and better canals to move non-urgent goods from the ports by water – much the cheapest way

5 Employment A government who undertook to build more houses and the public works to improve the canal system would be providing jobs, in the same way that both Hitler and Roosevelt did in the thirties.

6 Benefits make the jobseekers allowance a safety net. Limit the length of time people can receive it. But make it more generous. I’ve been on jobseekers recently, believe me going to the job centre and being lectured and threatened by kids is no joke.


7 Defence Get out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible. Why Blair and Bush thought they knew more about fighting there than the Russians and the British Empire at the height of its power is beyond me. If the Afghanis want to kill one another and have tribal wars let them, but quarantine them.

8 Taxation: Any banker who’s getting a huge bonus for gambling with the country’s future should have that bonus taxed a rate that will perhaps discourage him.

8 Media: Break up the big empires – especially Murdoch’s Bring in laws about monopolies like the American anti Trust Laws.

[shrek]

Whats' wrong with that? If you fundamentally disagree with where a poliltical party is coming from (and that's me and the Tories) why shouldn't you criticise them?

Because as you sensibly point out at the start of your post;

It's also too early for specific policies.

I agreed with it last time and do so this time, whats the point in Miliband rolling out decent ideas at this point were any that gain any sort of public support will no doubt find there way into the queens speech will before he takes office.

[shrek]

1. Housing
I'd look to ways of encouraging home ownership and think owning something such as Northern Rock we have the unique position now to look to build housing and then offer mortgages/home partnership schemes to people who may not otherwise be able to get a foot on the housing ladder without putting them in a position were they are breaking the bank to meet monthly repayments.

For me we need to break the cycle were an awful lot of private landlords seem to make a lot of money from tax payer funded rent, "we" are the market and seem to be forcing it north when those in the private sector may not be able to afford such high rents.

Under the last Labour government there was a net increase of 14,000 social houses, that's not enough in 13 years and I suspect the current government won't be in a rush to build any more either.

2. Education
On both this and Health I'd look to build some cross party agreement, they are to big to turn around in a parliamentary term and if we have a couple of changes of government in the next decade you risk having a whole generation in limbo.

3. Health
As above, I'd look for cross party agreement.

But don't agree with the PFI approach. We also need to look at taking out the "postcode lottery" aspects on some of the big ticket items whilst also understanding that the health needs of people across the country are not always the same. I'd be looking to take out some of the management that don't add value and drawing on the experience of those who know the system best. It never fails to amaze me just how hard people on wards at the coal face so to speak work and it annoys me when I see the NHS recruiting IT contractors on above market rates when if they saved money here maybe the work load at the point of the delivery could be spread around more and services improved.

4. Transport
For air we need to start moving things away from the south east the extra runway at Heathrow is an example of this, in this day an age there is no need for everything to be stuck in one corner of the country.

Roads need sorting, moves won't be popular, but congestion is a joke and must cost business a fortune. I think it goes further than just building bigger and wider motorways, but then you get into the thorny issue of congestion charging thats unlikely to make its way on to any manifesto at a national level and prove to be a vote winner.

5. Finance
Banks need to understand we won't always be there to bail them out.

Maybe let the next one fail and bite the bullet by bailing out individual investors rather than the bank as a whole.

Bonuses will be a hot potato for the forseeable future and need to be taxed accordingly.

6. Employment
I'd look to trim down the size of the public sector, very "un Labour" I know, but, if we had an efficient and effective public sector I'd be looking to use public money to invest in join initiatives in areas currently dependent on public sector work for large amounts of employment. You'd protect the work force from a change of government shrinking the public sector, plus be working towards employing people in a profit making environment that was adding value instead of just employing people almost for the sake of it (poorly put but I hope you know what I mean.).

7. Benefits

Total cuts to those that don't need it or fiddle the system and don't just chuck it back in the pot of another department but use the savings to make as much difference as we can afford to make to those in society that most need it. I'd be looking to identify what child poverty existed and do what ever I could to eradicate it, and I don't mean the Gordon Brown measure that would have left 15% of children still in poverty but totally eradicate it.

8. Defence
No more wars!

Instead of saddling up to right wing American fruit cakes I'd be looking to be a little more independent on the world stage or siding with nations not in such a rush to invade anywhere.

Our defence industry is important though, so I'd look to support that were I could both through purchases domestically and doing what I could to facilitate as many imports as possible. There are many communities/towns were defence companies are the major employer and I'd worry what would happen if they lost this and subsequent effects.

9. Regional development
Tied into Employment and transport, I'd be looking to make the whole country as accessible as possible whilst working to reduce regional dependence on public sector work in exchange for supporting private initiatives and I don't mean expecting folk to go from 25k a year public sector jobs to minimum wage then standing up at PMQ's and announcing to the nation how great it is that the private sector has picked up those no longer employed in the public sector.

9. Taxation
I feel quite well taxed at the moment, costs of living are rising such as fuel and heating bills, so not sure how much room for manovre there is here for anything but the extremes of the pay scales. I did cringe when I heard Ed Milliband talking about the "squeezed middle" though, I don't think the middle has forgotten how much they were squeezed by the last goverment just yet!

10. Media

Tough one this, as with the BBC in place its hard to stop others wanting to build up similar sized organisations. I'd be looking to get a hold of new-media and almost give up the papers and existing TV as a lost cause, but then if say Murdoch gained control of BSkyB, I don't think I'd lose to much sleep over it given that there can only be a small % of people watch Sky News in relation to other news providers. Wikileaks are showing exactly how far the goal posts are moving in this area. It can only be a matter of time before cabinet leaks are coming in the form of tweets almost in real time.

There's plenty of holes in there I am sure, its a starter for ten and I appologise for spelling etc, but my youngest is demanding food so that's me done for now!

[WearyRhino]

The job of the Labour Party is to affirm once again that capitalism does not work. Realise it is the job of the Party to assuage the worst effects of system on those who are exploited by it, paradoxically extending the life of capitalism.

[JohnM]

So that's at the top level, the guiding principle as it were. How would you then translate that into a manifesto. And I mean you, your ideas.

[JohnM]

double post

Ce message a été modifié par JohnM - 28 novembre 2010 - 07:14 .

[Bedford Roughyed]

Health is a basketcase problem for any party, as the things that are good for the NHS/health/survival rates when looking national/regional level are not always good for the local hospital. It would take a very brave MP to close his local heart/maternity/A&E ward even though a regional unit would have much better results.

Sorry digressing!

[Trojan]

Health is a basketcase problem for any party, as the things that are good for the NHS/health/survival rates when looking national/regional level are not always good for the local hospital. It would take a very brave MP to close his local heart/maternity/A&E ward even though a regional unit would have much better results.

Sorry digressing!

But you're right. There was a headline on tonight's news that some NHS hospitals' death rates are higher than average. That's how you arrive at an average. Most of us have more than the average number of legs. Of course if one of the hospitals that are higher than average is your hospital then you've got cause to worry - or have you?