59 replies to this topic

[ckn]

[Northern Sol]

the whole point of being an informant is giving information that can lead to the prevention of crime or the capture/death of criminals/enemies. part of the job description is 'brief but very eventful last few minutes of life if rumbled'.

It is an odd argument that since murder is commonplace then aiding and abetting the murder of Afghan civilians is no crime at all.

[bendyas]

Sam 1 - 0 Padge.

[sam]

It is an odd argument that since murder is commonplace then aiding and abetting the murder of Afghan civilians is no crime at all.

that's not the argument.

[Northern Sol]

that's not the argument.

What is the argument that makes publishing the names of informers morally justifiable?

[Haloman]

Will local interpreters also be named? Putting them and their families at risk?

[ckn]

Something interesting from Wikileaks: What REALLY happened to all those honey bees that have been dying off

American focussed but I'd not be very surprised if it's the same here in sunny Britain.

Edit: meh, just read through the links to the links to the links and it's not really Wikileaks... ah well, might move it to another thread somepoint soon.

[bowes]

The Chinese have killed so many they have to employ people to tickle plants with a feather to pollinate them, wouldn't be surprised if we're close. One of the worst animals to die out so pretty pathetic attitude really.

[Northern Sol]

Apparently Mugabe is using American diplomatic documents uploaded to Wikileaks as the basis for charging Tvangerai with treason.

Another victory for free speech.

[Padge]

If MI5 have someone under surveilance as a suspected terrorist and MI5 want to monitor his activities should Wikileaks publish details of MI5's activities tipping off said suspect.

Should Wikileaks publicise proposed troop movements in Afghanistan if they get their hands on them. Should they publish military flight times in and out of Afghan airports.

[sam]

If MI5 have someone under surveilance as a suspected terrorist and MI5 want to monitor his activities should Wikileaks publish details of MI5's activities tipping off said suspect.

it depends, is the suspect called Jean Charles de Menezes?

[Padge]

it depends, is the suspect called Jean Charles de Menezes?

So what?

Should Wikileakes tip off terrorists that they under survielance, should they tip off the Taliban about troop movements.

There is no depends, it is yes or no.

[sam]

So what?

Should Wikileakes tip off terrorists that they under survielance, should they tip off the Taliban about troop movements.

There is no depends, it is yes or no.

have wikileaks tipped off any terrorists and/or brazilian electricians that they're being watched?

have they tipped off the taliban?

[Padge]

have wikileaks tipped off any terrorists and/or brazilian electricians that they're being watched?

have they tipped off the taliban?

The question is, in your opinion, if they had information that if they released it would tip off terrorists that they are under survielance or would tip off the Taliban about troop movements should they publish it.

Its a fairly simple question, it only needs a yes or no answer. Should they publish or not.

[sam]

The question is, in your opinion, if they had information that if they released it would tip off terrorists that they are under survielance or would tip off the Taliban about troop movements should they publish it.

Its a fairly simple question, it only needs a yes or no answer. Should they publish or not.

my questions only require a yes or no answer too. have they published any info like this?

[Bedford Roughyed]

Bit of a pointless question? Troop movements would be changed as soon as they are leaked and any terrorist worth his salt will expect to be under surveillance and act accordingly.

Bit like the 'you wife and daughter are attached to a bomb, torturing the terrorist might save them' pointless type questions.

Wikileaks is set up to allow whistle blowers a chance to expose a wrong with some safety, Trafigura, apache helicopter video, denying detainees red cross access, friendly fire cover ups, civilian death cover ups, etc. All can be argued as in the public interest.

Wikileaks don't just release anything, of 90,000 Afghanistan documents they held back 15,000 as they believe the sources informants might be identified. No informant has yet to be killed or attacked by the taliban despite the 75,000 documents already released. Could the documents put peoples lives at risk? Yes. Is there blood on Wikileak's hands? No (not yet...). Is the informants being hunted/killed story hyped? Undoubtably.

[Padge]

my questions only require a yes or no answer too. have they published any info like this?

I don't know I haven't read everything they have released.

Now should they publish what I mentioned or not if they had that information.

[Northern Sol]

Bit of a pointless question? Troop movements would be changed as soon as they are leaked

Changed?

No not really. Changed would imply abandoning whatever strategic goal you were hoping to achieve. Hardly a minor nuisance. D-day was kept a secret for a reason; a last minute decision to invade Britanny rather than Normandy would have major consequences for the success of the operation.

and any terrorist worth his salt will expect to be under surveillance and act accordingly.

Probably but a list of terrorists under surveillance wouldn't include all possible terrorists. There would always be some that slipped under the radar. No point telling those guys that they have successfully avoided British intelligence by not appearing on the list.

Bit like the 'you wife and daughter are attached to a bomb, torturing the terrorist might save them' pointless type questions.

Wikileaks is set up to allow whistle blowers a chance to expose a wrong with some safety, Trafigura, apache helicopter video, denying detainees red cross access, friendly fire cover ups, civilian death cover ups, etc. All can be argued as in the public interest.

Wikileaks don't just release anything, of 90,000 Afghanistan documents they held back 15,000 as they believe the sources informants might be identified. No informant has yet to be killed or attacked by the taliban despite the 75,000 documents already released. Could the documents put peoples lives at risk? Yes. Is there blood on Wikileak's hands? No (not yet...). Is the informants being hunted/killed story hyped? Undoubtably.

We don't know that. Nobody keeps records on the health of various Afghan villagers.

[JohnM]

Given that Wikileaks has been going for a number of years, and has revealed information about the suppression of free speech, corruption, finance, taxes, trading, censorship technology and internet filtering etc etc, why has it suddenly become such a target?

How is Wikileaks different to say the Daily Telegraph revealing MPs expenses, or or its reporters lying to MPs and clandestinely t recording them? or our national press publishing leaked government e-mails and letters?

[Northern Sol]

Given that Wikileaks has been going for a number of years, and has revealed information about the suppression of free speech, corruption, finance, taxes, trading, censorship technology and internet filtering etc etc, why has it suddenly become such a target?

Probably because its past activities were seen as positive. I certainly didn't object about evidence of American involvement in war crimes or the Iraqi government's connections with militia. That was stuff that people needed to know.

Now, Assange has abandoned any pretence of journalism and simply published stuff with no use other than to damage American interests and seems to view other people's lives as expendable.

How is Wikileaks different to say the Daily Telegraph revealing MPs expenses, or or its reporters lying to MPs and clandestinely t recording them? or our national press publishing leaked government e-mails and letters?

Nobody is liable to die as a result.