24 replies to this topic

[mahdlo]

What a absolute load of tosh is being spouted by Terry Flanagan in the chronicle tonight. I know rugby league usually like to do things differently (and more often than not very very badly) but i always thought that one of the aims of amateur sports clubs was to provide a platform for sportsmen to progress to professional sport. Whining about 20-25 players having that opportunity at Oldham with the under 18 side is just nonsense. All super league clubs have an academy system, all football teams have a youth set-up, all rugby union teams have colts teams, all the county cricket clubs have a youth set up, whats the difference??

Are we to moan on the back page of the chronicle every time a Player moves on to play at a higher level from Oldham?

Or is it just another excuse to have a whinge at ORLFC!!

Edited by mahdlo, 08 December 2010 - 02:30 PM.

[higgy]

What a absolute load of tosh is being spouted by Terry Flanagan in the chronicle tonight. I know rugby league usually like to do things differently (and more often than not very very badly) but i always thought that one of the aims of amateur sports clubs was to provide a platform for sportsmen to progress to professional rugby. Whining about 20-25 players having that opportunity at Oldham with the under 18 side is just nonsense. All super league clubs have an academy system, all football teams have a youth set-up, all rugby union teams have colts teams, all the county cricket clubs have a youth set up, whats the difference??

Are we to moan on the back page of the chronicle every time a Player moves on to play at a higher level from Oldham?

Or is it just another excuse to have a whinge at ORLFC!!

Totally agree, also what he's missing and what CH stated is that this scheme is for lads who are already with the bigger clubs and not been offered contracts, to enable them to carry on with there careers and not be lost to the game. It also doesn't mean that all the lads offered a chance are from Oldham.

[sadbadnmad]

And what you're missing is that they are a professional club finding a cheap way of running an academy u18 side. If they want to improve the quality of Oldham players coming through then join the U18 Academy set up that the RFL have in place. Why join an Amateur League? Look at the lack of amateur teams in Oldham already, it is not that long ago the town boasted 2 sides at the top of the amateur game, one in the next tier and 3 other good teams in the regional leagues, that is notwhere near the case now. This will only further reduce the numbers playing on a Saturday afternoon. Also why did CH not discuss the idea first with the local stakeholders ie the amateur set up? The only way of improving the game in Oldham is for everyone to open up ideas for discussion and then announce the plan when everyone has been consulted

[Yonner]

From tonights Chronicle Chris Hamilton's defence

“It should also be stressed that it is not the intention of either the Oldham club or the RFL to create friction between the professional game and the amateur game.

Failed there then

“The players who, in the main, are going to be chosen for this Scholarship, have all been on similar schemes at other Super League or Championship clubs, but have not been offered contracts.

Just how many are young lads from other areas,who have not been contracted after previous Scholarship experience, will be the crux of the local clubs concerns ... if Oldham do not lure existing non scholarship lads away from Rangers, Annes or Waterhead then I would be amazed.

“The Oldham club has often been criticised in the past for not running a Scholarship scheme to attract players of the future, so isn’t it ironic that, when the right time and the right opportunities come along to enable us to do so, we find that we are now encountering new problems.

No its not ironic .... its very understandable ...whats more its not very clever if all this has been conducted in splendid isolation of the local clubs with teams at U-18's.

“We have been working closely with the amateur game to ensure that relations are good and that they continue to develop, to the point where we have held discussions with and have made an offer to the Oldham Amateur League to host the Standard Cup Final at Whitebank Stadium for a minimum of the next 10 years, thus further cementing our relationship.”

The Oldham Amateur League don't run the local clubs as I understand it ... and unless things have changed massively they often had different agendas .... working with the actual clubs is far more valuable

Hamilton added: “It is our intention to continue working with all the amateur clubs in the area in our efforts to make the game in Oldham at all levels as strong as we possibly can.”

Great ... well do it then ... work with them and not in opposition and everyone will truly be a Winner ... judging by the comments vocalised by Terry Flanagan on behalf of the local clubs its not how it appears to this reader !!

[higgy]

And what you're missing is that they are a professional club finding a cheap way of running an academy u18 side. If they want to improve the quality of Oldham players coming through then join the U18 Academy set up that the RFL have in place. Why join an Amateur League? Look at the lack of amateur teams in Oldham already, it is not that long ago the town boasted 2 sides at the top of the amateur game, one in the next tier and 3 other good teams in the regional leagues, that is notwhere near the case now. This will only further reduce the numbers playing on a Saturday afternoon. Also why did CH not discuss the idea first with the local stakeholders ie the amateur set up? The only way of improving the game in Oldham is for everyone to open up ideas for discussion and then announce the plan when everyone has been consulted

And what your missing is that Saddleworth u18's have been playing the likes of Kieghley, London Skolars u18s for the last two seasons with nothing said from Mr Flanagan. He also had nothing to say about the likes of Warrington signing players from his u18's ,is this because they possibly recieved a fee? and he fears losing this.
I thought the ambition when you play amatuer in any sport was to play to professional standard at least it was in my day, does Mr Flanagan expect everyone to stay in the amatuer game.

[mahdlo]

And what you're missing is that they are a professional club finding a cheap way of running an academy u18 side. If they want to improve the quality of Oldham players coming through then join the U18 Academy set up that the RFL have in place.

They have this isn't oldham's idea its a proposal put forward by the RFL see the link..

http://www.roughyeds...ip-scholarship/

[Yonner]

And what your missing is that Saddleworth u18's have been playing the likes of Kieghley, London Skolars u18s for the last two seasons with nothing said from Mr Flanagan. He also had nothing to say about the likes of Warrington signing players from his u18's ,is this because they possibly recieved a fee? and he fears losing this.
I thought the ambition when you play amatuer in any sport was to play to professional standard at least it was in my day, does Mr Flanagan expect everyone to stay in the amatuer game.

Keighley, Gateshead, Celtic Crusaders, and London Skolars have all been part of the Gillette National Youth league in my time involved ... how they conduct themselves with their local amateur clubs is up to them and fail to see why Terry Flanagan would have needed to comment.

As for fees paid to amateur clubs when their time and effort has been spent on bringing them through to the professional ranks ...bring it on ... it used to be about £50 when i was a lad ... bet its not much more now ...if they get anything at all as most didn't pay a bean .... ducking and diving all over the show.

As for the last comment ... nothing in anything the local clubs have vocalised mentions players should have their aspirations stifled by remaining as amateurs as you suggest .... i've read it again ...and I still can't see where it says that



ps ...its not about who did what to whom ... its all about doing it together as a community club ... and we appear to have missed that trick again ... unless Terry is talking Tosh as suggested at the top of this post and not speaking on behalf of anyone but himself ...very much doubt that!

Edited by Yonner, 08 December 2010 - 06:04 PM.

[mahdlo]

Keighley, Gateshead, Celtic Crusaders, and London Skolars have all been part of the Gillette National Youth league in my time involved ... how they conduct themselves with their local amateur clubs is up to them and fail to see why Terry Flanagan would have needed to comment.

As for fees paid to amateur clubs when their time and effort has been spent on bringing them through to the professional ranks ...bring it on ... it used to be about £50 when i was a lad ... bet its not much more now ...if they get anything at all as most didn't pay a bean .... ducking and diving all over the show.

As for the last comment ... nothing in anything the local clubs have vocalised mentions players should have their aspirations stifled by remaining as amateurs as you suggest .... i've read it again ...and I still can't see where it says that



ps ...its not about who did what to whom ... its all about doing it together as a community club ... and we appear to have missed that trick again ... unless Terry is talking Tosh as suggested at the top of this post and not speaking on behalf of anyone but himself ...very much doubt that!

If he's not talking rubbish then is anger should be aimed at the RFL not the club i still cannot see what difference this proposal is from the SL academy system which is in place, its just another route through for youngsters to the pro game and looking at the dire state of our national team they should be applauded for it not criticised.
I will make the point again in a squad of approximately 25 players terry flanagan says it wil lbe a 'real body blow'
i am sorry that is nonsense..

[getamungum]

Keighley, Gateshead, Celtic Crusaders, and London Skolars have all been part of the Gillette National Youth league in my time involved ... how they conduct themselves with their local amateur clubs is up to them and fail to see why Terry Flanagan would have needed to comment.

As for fees paid to amateur clubs when their time and effort has been spent on bringing them through to the professional ranks ...bring it on ... it used to be about £50 when i was a lad ... bet its not much more now ...if they get anything at all as most didn't pay a bean .... ducking and diving all over the show.

As for the last comment ... nothing in anything the local clubs have vocalised mentions players should have their aspirations stifled by remaining as amateurs as you suggest .... i've read it again ...and I still can't see where it says that



ps ...its not about who did what to whom ... its all about doing it together as a community club ... and we appear to have missed that trick again ... unless Terry is talking Tosh as suggested at the top of this post and not speaking on behalf of anyone but himself ...very much doubt that!

Maybe Huddersfield Giants dont like it!

[saints10coach]

I am heavily involved in one of our local amateur clubs and this does not bother me at all. In fact it seems it is what the public have been asking for, for a while. With John Hough being involved at Service area level, these are the sorts of steps that should be enthusing the people of Oldham. How many moans do we here when an Oldhamer signs for an out of town club. Steps like these should ensure that more Oldhamer's make it into the professional ranks with their home town club. In my eyes that is a good thing.

[Robthegardener.]

I was always of the thinking that the amatuer and pro game have never hit it off fully.Us and them theory.

Edited by Robthegardener., 08 December 2010 - 09:47 PM.

[higgy]

Keighley, Gateshead, Celtic Crusaders, and London Skolars have all been part of the Gillette National Youth league in my time involved ... how they conduct themselves with their local amateur clubs is up to them and fail to see why Terry Flanagan would have needed to comment.

As for fees paid to amateur clubs when their time and effort has been spent on bringing them through to the professional ranks ...bring it on ... it used to be about £50 when i was a lad ... bet its not much more now ...if they get anything at all as most didn't pay a bean .... ducking and diving all over the show.

As for the last comment ... nothing in anything the local clubs have vocalised mentions players should have their aspirations stifled by remaining as amateurs as you suggest .... i've read it again ...and I still can't see where it says that



ps ...its not about who did what to whom ... its all about doing it together as a community club ... and we appear to have missed that trick again ... unless Terry is talking Tosh as suggested at the top of this post and not speaking on behalf of anyone but himself ...very much doubt that!

Terry Flanagan has made an emotive statement without being aware of all the facts.

1) All local amateur clubs were all sent letters outlining ORLFC's intentions.

2) In excess of 300 young players have been released from the scholarship system, which is were 90% of the team will be recruited from. The majority of these could be lost to Rugby League.

3) Only two local players were invited to the skills session, of these, one opted to stay with his super league club and take the chance of another oppertunity.

4) The new coach has been in touch with the local amateur clubs, two of whom have offered help if needed (NOW THIS IS THE WAY FORWARD).

5) Perhaps if Mr Flanagan had even read the letter sent or spoken to two of his own coaches (With whom the new coach has spoken to at length) or rang his former coach with whom he has worked closely with for the last four years, or even had the courtesy to ring Mr Hamilton regarding his feelings, his fears could have been allayed.

6) The loss of arguably one of the best u18s coaches by a country mile, and one Saddleworth were desperate to keep hold of, must be a bitter pill for the club to swallow
Is this the real reason for Mr Flanagan's emotive outburst.

[Penfold7]

You make out it is forward thinking from Oldham etc when in actual Fact it is a recommendation from the RFL that from 2012 the Championship Teams will be run on a franchise basis with all Teams having to meet certain Criteria, some of which include having a Reserve/U23's side and having a scholorship scheme similar to Super League Clubs, Failure to do so will result in Reduced or no Funding from the RFL !

Terry's Gripe is Probably, why haven't a Club like Oldham done this without the Rfl telling them they have to ?

And all the nonsense that it won't affect the Amateur Clubs is absolute Tosh ! ( they spend Ten years or More developing these Kids off their own backs, giving up their Free Time with the ultimate Aim of making Professional Rugby Players) !, then Lower League Pro Clubs and some Super League Clubs snap up the less Talented Lads and feed them with false Promises and destroy their confidence and they are lost to the game for good !, in between time the Amateur Clubs run out of Players because of what is Forward thinking from the RFL !, and our beloved game Dies !

Well Done RFL !

[saints10coach]

You make out it is forward thinking from Oldham etc when in actual Fact it is a recommendation from the RFL that from 2012 the Championship Teams will be run on a franchise basis with all Teams having to meet certain Criteria, some of which include having a Reserve/U23's side and having a scholorship scheme similar to Super League Clubs, Failure to do so will result in Reduced or no Funding from the RFL !

Terry's Gripe is Probably, why haven't a Club like Oldham done this without the Rfl telling them they have to ?

And all the nonsense that it won't affect the Amateur Clubs is absolute Tosh ! ( they spend Ten years or More developing these Kids off their own backs, giving up their Free Time with the ultimate Aim of making Professional Rugby Players) !, then Lower League Pro Clubs and some Super League Clubs snap up the less Talented Lads and feed them with false Promises and destroy their confidence and they are lost to the game for good !, in between time the Amateur Clubs run out of Players because of what is Forward thinking from the RFL !, and our beloved game Dies !

Well Done RFL !

So what do you expect to happen Penfold7? You state that you develop the players for ten years or so, with the aim of them making the pro ranks. Then criticise the club and RFL for offering a further pathway into the said Pro ranks.
Whether this is right or not, you cannot criticise a club like Oldham for offering the opportunity now that funding from above will be available, if what you say is true. I coach under 12's at the moment and would be more than happy if everyone of them went to Oldham to pursue a professional career in the game. Who knows some of them may end up going to a SL club. But for everyone that does not make it to either of these levels I shall be explaining to them that there is nothing wrong with pursuing their career at whatever level they can amateur or professional.

[mahdlo]

You make out it is forward thinking from Oldham etc when in actual Fact it is a recommendation from the RFL that from 2012 the Championship Teams will be run on a franchise basis with all Teams having to meet certain Criteria, some of which include having a Reserve/U23's side and having a scholorship scheme similar to Super League Clubs, Failure to do so will result in Reduced or no Funding from the RFL !

Terry's Gripe is Probably, why haven't a Club like Oldham done this without the Rfl telling them they have to ?

And all the nonsense that it won't affect the Amateur Clubs is absolute Tosh ! ( they spend Ten years or More developing these Kids off their own backs, giving up their Free Time with the ultimate Aim of making Professional Rugby Players) !, then Lower League Pro Clubs and some Super League Clubs snap up the less Talented Lads and feed them with false Promises and destroy their confidence and they are lost to the game for good !, in between time the Amateur Clubs run out of Players because of what is Forward thinking from the RFL !, and our beloved game Dies !

Well Done RFL !

Where do i start...It is forward thinking from Oldham they were one of the first clubs to jump at the chance of the offer from the RFL i am not sure what you are talking about regards franchise based systems that is news to me..

Terry's Gripe is Probably... we can end that there i can only read what it says in the chron anything else is just guess work..

As for the rest saints coach puts it better than i could, i have coached in amateur football and assisted in youth cricket and have never once heard anybody moan about players that move on to play at an higher level and in fact encourage players to chance there arm at professional clubs if they are given the chance, it may well be different in amateur RL if it is i personally think they need to change there mentality.

Edited by mahdlo, 09 December 2010 - 10:26 AM.

[Penfold7]

So what do you expect to happen Penfold7? You state that you develop the players for ten years or so, with the aim of them making the pro ranks. Then criticise the club and RFL for offering a further pathway into the said Pro ranks.
Whether this is right or not, you cannot criticise a club like Oldham for offering the opportunity now that funding from above will be available, if what you say is true. I coach under 12's at the moment and would be more than happy if everyone of them went to Oldham to pursue a professional career in the game. Who knows some of them may end up going to a SL club. But for everyone that does not make it to either of these levels I shall be explaining to them that there is nothing wrong with pursuing their career at whatever level they can amateur or professional.

If the Money was for the Development of the Junior Players to help them into the Pro Game i would support the Idea !, BUT it's not it will be used to help Keep the Championship Clubs Afloat and hardly any of it will be used to develop the Youngsters and the Amateur Game will Suffer !

[mahdlo]

If the Money was for the Development of the Junior Players to help them into the Pro Game i would support the Idea !, BUT it's not it will be used to help Keep the Championship Clubs Afloat and hardly any of it will be used to develop the Youngsters and the Amateur Game will Suffer !

My last reply to you as you are now just making it as you go along what utter nonsense..

[saints10coach]

The fact that they would be being coached by a member of the Pro team's coaching staff IS investment in the development of the players. We are also talking about players who have come to the end of their junior rugby days and are making the progression to open age. Most the development will have been done in the instilling of core skills in their formative years.
Like I said before I would be happy if most of my charges took this route. It would then be up to me to recruit more players to carry on at my amateur club if I wished to carry on coaching up to that age group. This happens every year now at our amateur clubs when we lose players to SL scholarship schemes, and players who drop out as they discover other things at this age.

Edited by saints10coach, 10 December 2010 - 11:33 AM.

[Penfold7]

My last reply to you as you are now just making it as you go along what utter nonsense..

I'm making it up as i go ?, you really need to look into this a lot deeper !, I have and what i am saying is True !, mark my Words !

[Penfold7]

The fact that they would be being coached by a member of the Pro team's coaching staff IS investment in the development of the players. We are also talking about players who have come to the end of their junior rugby days and are making the progression to open age. Most the development will have been done in the instilling of core skills in their formative years.
Like I said before I would be happy if most of my charges took this root. It would then be up to me to recruit more players to carry on at my amateur club if I wished to carry on coaching up to that age group. This happens every year now at our amateur clubs when we lose players to SL scholarship schemes, and players who drop out as they discover other things at this age.

You say that they will be coached by a member of the Pro Teams Coaching Staff ?(Like they do at Salford who have been doing this for Years ?), plus if you say you are actively involved in Junior Rugby in Oldham(which i don't doubt), you will know that some of the best coaches in the Area are or have been actively involved in the Amateur Game at Youth Level in the last couple of years(Leo Casey, Shaun & Steve Gartland, Bob Marsden to name a few)

All it will be is a Glorified Service Area run by the likes of yourself and other Amateur coaches to keep the costs down so the Clubs Coffers can Prosper !