22 replies to this topic

[bowes]

http://www.dailymail...modern-man.html

Now this isn't yet proven to be Homo sapiens as it is only teeth so far, but if proven would be another one of many great findings in this area this year including:

1. Neanderthal DNA proven to be in non-African people
2. New species discovered through DNA as like an Asian version of Neanderthal (provisionally named Denisova hominin til official name made) which has contributed genes to at least Melanesians (you'd guess Aborigines and some native groups of South East Asia too)
3. Homo gautengensis discovered as earliest member of Homo genus.

But anyway how I'd read this is that Homo sapiens could have originated outside of Africa but the vast majority (but NOT all) of human genes originate more recently in East Africa because of a bottleneck in the human population due to the Mount Toba eruption. This doesn't prove that's where Homo sapiens first evolved.

Also this may link up with the closest species to Homo sapiens being in Europe and Asia (Neanderthal and Denisovan) and may also explain the unusual genetic type of Mungo Man (which seems to be closer to Homo sapiens than any other species but not descended from the East African (or Southern African) branch), our resident geneticist may know something about this?

Of course it may just turn out to be an unusual looking Neanderthal but even then it would be interestingly early

[GURNER]

Whichever way this pans out, it'll be related to L'ange

[Northern Sol]

If mankind did evolve in the Mid East rather than Africa, it leaves the question of why there is so much DNA diversity in sub saharan Africa in comparison to the rest of the world. The "out of Africa" hypothesis explains this rather neatly.

[guess who]

Whichever way this pans out, it'll be related to L'ange

I know i shouldn't but.................

[my missus]

we have been around for 400.000 years and the planet is 4.6 billion years old? does this mean we could have been through all this 10 million times?

[Bulletproof]

we have been around for 400.000 years and the planet is 4.6 billion years old? does this mean we could have been through all this 10 million times?

Err, Jesus told me 6,000 years old and that's good enough for me. Turns out all the dinosaur bones are one big practical joke!

Seriously anthropology is often fascinating to me.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I know i shouldn't but.................

duly noted

[JohnM]

a 400,000 year old fossil in Israel?

Strange...I only saw my ma in law a couple of days ago and she was in Bolton then.

[bowes]

If mankind did evolve in the Mid East rather than Africa, it leaves the question of why there is so much DNA diversity in sub saharan Africa in comparison to the rest of the world. The "out of Africa" hypothesis explains this rather neatly.

In my opinion the Mount Toba explosion could explain this as it wiped out the vast majority of people (some would say all Homo sapiens) in Asia. There were Homo sapiens populations in the Middle East and North Africa as well as East and Southern Africa at the time that had been there tens of thousands of years (at least) but the first 2 either died out or all but did with Neanderthals migrating to the Middle East (it's unproven whether or not they moved to North Africa) as they could better survive the cold.

You may be right but before Toba it is very hard to tell where people originated from genetics due to the bottleneck. Personally I am undecided as it is a huge claim to make just from teeth but also it's entirely possible to fit into the evidence of the vast majority of genes (c. 95% for non-Africans) being from Sub-Saharan Africa. Bob8 will of course understand the genetics more than me.

[Northern Sol]

In my opinion the Mount Toba explosion could explain this as it wiped out the vast majority of people (some would say all Homo sapiens) in Asia. There were Homo sapiens populations in the Middle East and North Africa as well as East and Southern Africa at the time that had been there tens of thousands of years (at least) but the first 2 either died out or all but did with Neanderthals migrating to the Middle East (it's unproven whether or not they moved to North Africa) as they could better survive the cold.

You may be right but before Toba it is very hard to tell where people originated from genetics due to the bottleneck. Personally I am undecided as it is a huge claim to make just from teeth but also it's entirely possible to fit into the evidence of the vast majority of genes (c. 95% for non-Africans) being from Sub-Saharan Africa. Bob8 will of course understand the genetics more than me.

Thanks some interesting stuff there - I shall have a read and a think.

[my missus]

400 thousand years is a pretty decent life cycle there is probably not much left in this phase, i wonder if during this cycle of life do we get to this stage quicker every time, or are we better developed every time before we ###### it up.

[ckn]

Moderator note: 1 post deleted. A very unsubtle trolling effort.

[bowes]

Thanks some interesting stuff there - I shall have a read and a think.

Read some interesting thing today that the Denisova hominin could be a hybrid between a Neanderthal (or perhaps more likely a related (sub?)species) and an older population perhaps Homo erectus. This is because genetically it's mostly related to Neanderthals but some of its genome (most notably its mitochondrial DNA representing the direct female line) is much older. Makes you think given it was 30,000 years ago (perhaps representing a much earlier interbreeding) and may even suggest the similarities with Melanesians are due to the latter mixing not only with Neanderthals but also Homo erectus (the latter survived til recently in Indonesia 30,000-50,000 with Solo Man becoming far more advanced than the rest of the species; the more recent still Flores man ('hobbit') may also be a branch), not going to be a popular proposal though but we'd be talking a few percent at most.

[Bob8]

There have been two requests for my expertise, but I not not really have much to offer I am afraid.

Present company excepted, multi-cellular organisms have never been an interest.

[bowes]

There have been two requests for my expertise, but I not not really have much to offer I am afraid.

Present company excepted, multi-cellular organisms have never been an interest.

Even aquatic ones?

[Bob8]

Even aquatic ones?

Not really. Yeast, bacteria and single cell mammalian culture would be the speciality.

I imagine Exxile is an expert.

[Shadow]

Not really. Yeast, bacteria and single cell mammalian culture would be the speciality.

I imagine Exxile is an expert.

I think you'll find they've been made up

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Not really. Yeast, bacteria and single cell mammalian culture would be the speciality.

I imagine Exxile is an expert.

so does he

[Bob8]

Even aquatic ones?

Sorry, is this a reference to the aquatic ape theory? If so, I confess I find the hypothesis very strong.

[bowes]

Sorry, is this a reference to the aquatic ape theory? If so, I confess I find the hypothesis very strong.

Yeah. It is an interesting hypothesis and we know very little about humans of the likely time frame but does make a lot of sense people spending a lot of time in water, just a question of when (e.g. did it come before or after the split with Neanderthals)