19 replies to this topic

[Chairman LMAO]

As a resident of Wakefield, this is tremendously bad news for the city. Looks likely their Super League licence will be revoked now and they'll be in the Championship sooner rather than later. A few easier decisions for the RFL as franchise time approaches too.

[vitocorleone]

Championship if their lucky, you mean Chairman!!

[S.T.R]

It will be interesting to see how many points they are deducted

[HORBURY BULLDOG]

I am also a resident of Wakefield and anyone who has followed the new stadium farce and witnessed the standard of player recruitment in the closed season cannot be surprised by this news.
No genuine rugby supporter wants to see the demise of a great old club.However,as a tax payer,neither am I impressed by a club official appearing on BBC tv saying that by going into administation it will make the taxman "go away".Perhaps instead of pawing over new stadium plans someone should have been working out where the £300000 for Mr Osbourne was coming from.

[CherryandWhite09]

I agree HB. If Rugby League aspires to develop nationally as a game, the 'great old clubs' need to become viable commercial enterprises & recruit the right personnel to build a professional infrastructure that generates the required funding to function. Surely the Red Hall Gurus could start to offer Clubs a Blueprint/Template to support their activities in this area, to protect the crediblity of our sport? Liaising with the RFU would be a starting point!

In Wakefield's case, as in many RL clubs, their world revolved around a 'family business' (Chairman Ted Richardson & his family). Unfortunately Ted's family funding of the club derailed in July last year, when a personal land deal with Sainsbury's resulted in him losing £920,000 due to poor legal advice, & he entered an Individual Voluntary Arrangement(IVA), in agreement with his Creditors.

Redundancies at the Club followed,& close season 'speculative' recruiting of very average players for the standard demanded of Super League.

A sorry tale, but one that all clubs, including our own, should take heed of.

[vitocorleone]

It`s the fans i feel sorry for.

The RFL has got to take some of the responsibility here, pushing clubs into buying/part-owning stadiums at all costs, as part of it`s ludicrous franchise system. I know the Cas Wakey shared stadium makes sense to business men and politicians and rattlesnakes (the RFL), but it doesn`t to us the fans and it never will.

[Blind side johnny]

It`s the fans i feel sorry for.

The RFL has got to take some of the responsibility here, pushing clubs into buying/part-owning stadiums at all costs, as part of it`s ludicrous franchise system. I know the Cas Wakey shared stadium makes sense to business men and politicians and rattlesnakes (the RFL), but it doesn`t to us the fans and it never will.

I may be misunderstanding something here but didn't all clubs used to own their own stadia in days of yore. Why this is RFL responsibility I fail to understand.

Where the RFL failed is in not kicking them out of SL years ago for continuously failing to keep their promises/guarantees etc regarding developing Belle Vue or building a new ground. Nor is this a new development as I seem to recall them failing to pay their creditors in years past also (e.g the firm who built their lego stand).

Shared stadia make sense to sports fans the world over and I can see no logical reason why they can't be acceptable to British sports fans too.

[YOUNG UN]

I am also a resident of Wakefield and anyone who has followed the new stadium farce and witnessed the standard of player recruitment in the closed season cannot be surprised by this news.
No genuine rugby supporter wants to see the demise of a great old club.However,as a tax payer,neither am I impressed by a club official appearing on BBC tv saying that by going into administation it will make the taxman "go away".Perhaps instead of pawing over new stadium plans someone should have been working out where the £300000 for Mr Osbourne was coming from.

When you mention a club official do you mean James (Jimmy) Elston. I believe he is the Wildcats Chief Executive. I have nothing against Jimmy, he was a good servant to the Rams, but SL clubs need astute,intelligent, experienced personnel who are well connected, at the top of the tree. Jimmy is not Gary Hetherington and I don't think he has the same connections,Paul Caddick springs to mind. The comment "It will make the taxman go away" just sums up my point.

[vitocorleone]

I may be misunderstanding something here but didn't all clubs used to own their own stadia in days of yore. Why this is RFL responsibility I fail to understand.

Where the RFL failed is in not kicking them out of SL years ago for continuously failing to keep their promises/guarantees etc regarding developing Belle Vue or building a new ground. Nor is this a new development as I seem to recall them failing to pay their creditors in years past also (e.g the firm who built their lego stand).

Shared stadia make sense to sports fans the world over and I can see no logical reason why they can't be acceptable to British sports fans too.

The sooner people understand Rugby League is a northern sport the better. I have absolutely no idea why supporters of heartlands clubs talk themselves down. The way you are talking BSJ, we at this level and others at higher levels ie, Wakey, Cas and Salford have no future. Once you take away promotion/relegation and start down the line of this propostorious franchise idea, it`s only a matter of time before RL at this level dies.

Shared stadia may make sense in football and other sports, but it does not and never will with the regular `joe` RL fan.

[vitocorleone]

I may be misunderstanding something here but didn't all clubs used to own their own stadia in days of yore. Why this is RFL responsibility I fail to understand.

Where the RFL failed is in not kicking them out of SL years ago for continuously failing to keep their promises/guarantees etc regarding developing Belle Vue or building a new ground. Nor is this a new development as I seem to recall them failing to pay their creditors in years past also (e.g the firm who built their lego stand).

Shared stadia make sense to sports fans the world over and I can see no logical reason why they can't be acceptable to British sports fans too.

My point about it being partially the RFL`s fault is, why is so much importance being attached to the condition of someone`s stadium? This is the biggest recession since 1946, and still the RFL push their idealogy down people`s throats.

I know i`m ranting but i cannot understand whywe all stand for the wood chopping on our heads.
Rant over

[HaroldShand]

The sooner people understand Rugby League is a northern sport the better. I have absolutely no idea why supporters of heartlands clubs talk themselves down. The way you are talking BSJ, we at this level and others at higher levels ie, Wakey, Cas and Salford have no future. Once you take away promotion/relegation and start down the line of this propostorious franchise idea, it`s only a matter of time before RL at this level dies.

Shared stadia may make sense in football and other sports, but it does not and never will with the regular `joe` RL fan.

Vito, how can you bring yourself to continually criticse the wonderful concept of 'expansion' that is promoted by the RFL, when the following non-heartland clubs have proved so successful?

Carlisle (defunct)
Kent/Southend Invicta (defunct)
Celtic Crusaders (defunct)
Crusaders (defunct, re-incarnated with an ever so slightly different trading name)
Mansfield Marksman (defunct)
Nottingham City (defunct)
Scarborough Pirates (defunct - an 'expansion' club based in a non-RL playing area of, yes, YORKSHIRE!!!!)
Cardiff Blue Dragons (defunct)
South Wales (the 1996 verstion - defunct)
Bridgend (defunct)
Fulham, London Crusaders, London Broncos (defunct, propped up continually via RFL funds and then finally by a £1'000'000 loan from fellow SL clubs until the Harlequins alliance.)
Gateshead Thunder (ended their first season of 1999 with debts of over £1'000'000 and folded. Revived in 2000, fail to attract crowds of little over 200 to home matches to this day, and living on borrowed time. Overall, a huge success.)

Obviously Vito, expansion works, so why choose to rip the concept to shreds. Sheffield Eagles are the archetypal example of expansion proving a success. After forming in 1984, they now average crowds of nearly 1'000 to every home game. In their 26 years of existence, the club have provided the British game with an endless list of class players. The fact that the club is based in the South Yorkshire area - literally hundreds of miles away from the games West Yorkshire/Lancashire heartlands, is solid proof that expansion is worthwhile.

Edited by HaroldShand, 04 February 2011 - 01:28 AM.

[grumpyoldram]

Vito, how can you bring yourself to continually criticse the wonderful concept of 'expansion' that is promoted by the RFL, when the following non-heartland clubs have proved so successful?

Carlisle (defunct)
Kent/Southend Invicta (defunct)
Celtic Crusaders (defunct)
Crusaders (defunct, re-incarnated with an ever so slightly different trading name)
Mansfield Marksman (defunct)
Nottingham City (defunct)
Scarborough Pirates (defunct - an 'expansion' club based in a non-RL playing area of, yes, YORKSHIRE!!!!)
Cardiff Blue Dragons (defunct)
South Wales (the 1996 verstion - defunct)
Bridgend (defunct)
Fulham, London Crusaders, London Broncos (defunct, propped up continually via RFL funds and then finally by a £1'000'000 loan from fellow SL clubs until the Harlequins alliance.)
Gateshead Thunder (ended their first season of 1999 with debts of over £1'000'000 and folded. Revived in 2000, fail to attract crowds of little over 200 to home matches to this day, and living on borrowed time. Overall, a huge success.)

Obviously Vito, expansion works, so why choose to rip the concept to shreds. Sheffield Eagles are the archetypal example of expansion proving a success. After forming in 1984, they now average crowds of nearly 1'000 to every home game. In their 26 years of existence, the club have provided the British game with an endless list of class players. The fact that the club is based in the South Yorkshire area - literally hundreds of miles away from the games West Yorkshire/Lancashire heartlands, is solid proof that expansion is worthwhile.

Nice one!

From a personal standpoint, I would be dismayed if Wakefield went the way of the above clubs - it was a visit to a trinity game courtesy of a mates dad that converted me from footie supporter to rugby fanatic. This was back in the days of Neil Fox, and the great
Wakey sides of that era and I supported them right up to the 'Don Fox final' until other commitments left me without the finances to support two teams. I owe them a lot.

[Blind side johnny]

Crikey, break out the hobby horses!

Please explain to me just how Wakefield's problems (the subject of this thread if I'm not mistaken) have any relation to a desire for RL to expand outside of its "heartlands"? Are you saying that without expansion Wakefield would be a hunky-dory successful club playing in a modern fit-for-purpose stadium in front of large crowds. If you are then I'm obviously living on a different planet.

As a club they have lied and conned their way through too many seasons in SL. Does anyone here recall thet they were the PRIME movers in denying access to SL to other clubs on the basis of those clubs having inadequate grounds/support/finance?

It's a little while since Frank Machin starred down Wakey way; time has moved on.

[HaroldShand]

For what its worth, BSJ, I was simply highlighting the track record of absolutely folly that is 'expansion'.
I actually agree completely with your sentiments on the Wakefield debacle. As you said, they were keen supporters of pulling up the drawbridge on promotion and relegation (mainly to feather their own nest), and have made more false promises in terms of building a new ground and improving their facilities than I've had hot dinners. Had the club not been so arrogant in expecting their local council to build not one, but two brand new stadiums to singularly accommadate themselves and Castleford, and been more open to a logical ground share (i.e. be bloody grateful for what they were being give for free), then its highly unlikely they would be in this mess.

[CherryandWhite09]

Crikey, break out the hobby horses!

Please explain to me just how Wakefield's problems (the subject of this thread if I'm not mistaken) have any relation to a desire for RL to expand outside of its "heartlands"? Are you saying that without expansion Wakefield would be a hunky-dory successful club playing in a modern fit-for-purpose stadium in front of large crowds. If you are then I'm obviously living on a different planet.

As a club they have lied and conned their way through too many seasons in SL. Does anyone here recall thet they were the PRIME movers in denying access to SL to other clubs on the basis of those clubs having inadequate grounds/support/finance?

It's a little while since Frank Machin starred down Wakey way; time has moved on.

Wakefield's problems have been brewing for a long time BSJ, & are not untypical of other clubs, who are chancing their arm & papering over financial cracks, in both SL and Championship rugby.

Some of the above points are valid relating to the RL governing body.If our sport is to expand nationally, then we need more than 2 or 3 flagship clubs from Super League as examples of well run commercial and financial bodies. This surely should both be a priority for and a responsibility of Red Hall, instead of investing in external management consultants and project managers to tell them what is wrong with team GB, & how it can be magically turned around!

If the grass root clubs like Wakefield are crashing, then the foundation of our game is starting to crumble, supporters become disillusioned, and who cares about team GB & expansion into South Staffordshire? Clubs are crying out for help & guidance in the areas of the commercial and financial running of our clubs, and its time that the RFL set up a consultancy service to support the backbone of our game.

[Blind side johnny]

I'm not an apologist for the RFL but they are really too easy a target when management incompetence is the core cause of each and every clubs problems. You could add Oldham, Swinton, Whitehaven, Workington, Bramley, Hunslet to the list of "grass roots" clubs who have similarly orchestrated their own demise. Not forgetting Streatham and Mitcham, Cardiff (1st time around) Willingdon and Acton, Wigan Highfield, Pilkington Recs, Belle Vue (Broughton) Rangers, Manningham, Leeds Parish Church - need I go on? (No they cry, knowing full well it won't stop him!)

To this sorry debacle can also be added: Association Football, Rugby Union, Speedway, Ice Hockey, American Football, Baseball etc., all individual sports where clubs have foundered thanks to the unrealistic ambitions of their owners. We aren't unique in being disatisfied with our governing body and in many ways it does a better job than in other sports.

Clubs (businesses by any other name) that go bust bring it upon themselves. The clubs (collectively) make the rules by which they are being governed. There isn't a malign force sent down from the dark side to find ways to cripple the game. Unfortunately our own emotional ties to our clubs, their history and that of the game in general tends to make our judgements less rational than they ought to be (current scribe included). It's the burden that we carry as supporters of TGG.

[fredm]

If the grass root clubs like Wakefield are crashing, then the foundation of our game is starting to crumble, supporters become disillusioned, and who cares about team GB & expansion into South Staffordshire? Clubs are crying out for help & guidance in the areas of the commercial and financial running of our clubs, and its time that the RFL set up a consultancy service to support the backbone of our game.
[/quote]

There is one answer to the problems that Wakefield (and other clubs who are possibly looking at a similar scenario) face and that is............


,,,,,,,,,,LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS!!!!!!

[Gary Coyle]

[/quote]

There is one answer to the problems that Wakefield (and other clubs who are possibly looking at a similar scenario) face and that is............


,,,,,,,,,,LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS!!!!!!
[/quote]
Top advice Fred and something every single club including ours has blatantly ignored at some stage in the recent past, even those who dont chase the dream.

[landy13]

Something that keeps being mentioned in the wakefield demise (its mentioned above and also in quite a few other threads regarding wakefield) is the unwillingness to share a ground with cas

I may be wrong but I understood that wakefield had been promised a 350,000 up front payment by the developers as soon as the development got the go ahead. IMO the club had already pin pointed this for a short term get out of jail card, and as soon as the development was stalled again the club had to send out a begging plea to fans to pump their hard earned money into a sinking ship, which was always going to fail

I don't think wakefields ground sharing objections had anything to do with anything other than it meaning they would lose out on this short term money fix from the developers to bail them out.

[grumpyoldram]

I'm not an apologist for the RFL but they are really too easy a target when management incompetence is the core cause of each and every clubs problems. You could add Oldham, Swinton, Whitehaven, Workington, Bramley, Hunslet to the list of "grass roots" clubs who have similarly orchestrated their own demise. Not forgetting Streatham and Mitcham, Cardiff (1st time around) Willingdon and Acton, Wigan Highfield, Pilkington Recs, Belle Vue (Broughton) Rangers, Manningham, Leeds Parish Church - need I go on? (No they cry, knowing full well it won't stop him!)

To this sorry debacle can also be added: Association Football, Rugby Union, Speedway, Ice Hockey, American Football, Baseball etc., all individual sports where clubs have foundered thanks to the unrealistic ambitions of their owners. We aren't unique in being disatisfied with our governing body and in many ways it does a better job than in other sports.

Clubs (businesses by any other name) that go bust bring it upon themselves. The clubs (collectively) make the rules by which they are being governed. There isn't a malign force sent down from the dark side to find ways to cripple the game. Unfortunately our own emotional ties to our clubs, their history and that of the game in general tends to make our judgements less rational than they ought to be (current scribe included). It's the burden that we carry as supporters of TGG.

But for the intervention of mark sawyer and co, you could add the Rams to that list, and actually we have been on thin ice several times. Harold S has a valid (and witty) point about the futility of expansion though. I do agree that the RFL can hardly be blamed for the gross, and long term mismangement of a once great club, but they can be held responsible for the spineless way that they have allowed clubs to live outside their means in recent years. For instance, they brought in a salary cap system to help keep clubs on the straight and narrow, and then promptly allowed some clubs (wigan anyone) to flout the rules to ensure their survival in SL, and have continued to allow clubs in both SL and the championship to find loopholes and ways round the rules to gain advantage. Wasn't it the RFL that allowed the Giants and Hull to get rid of huge debts by ' merging ' with Sheffield and gatehead in a complete sham - and yet here we are over ten years later with three of those clubs still treading a financial tightrope (one of them carrying on largely due to the generosity of it's council. Sorry but the RFL are far from blameless.