69 replies to this topic

[ckn]

I finally got around to watching that Panorama programme on care home abuse (iplayer linky)

Quite upset me that.

Whistle-blower complained to his manager and was told his standards were "too high". Complained formally to his manager and manager's manager, ignored. He resigned then complained to the Care Quality Commission on three separate occasions but was ignored on every occasion.

I quite hope that every one of those abusers goes to jail and gets taken as the jail bitch.

[WearyRhino]

I finally got around to watching that Panorama programme on care home abuse (iplayer linky)

Quite upset me that.

Whistle-blower complained to his manager and was told his standards were "too high". Complained formally to his manager and manager's manager, ignored. He resigned then complained to the Care Quality Commission on three separate occasions but was ignored on every occasion.

I quite hope that every one of those abusers goes to jail and gets taken as the jail bitch.

And I hope the private company who make a fortune out of providing care to very vulnerable people by employing totally unsuitable people at low level wages and completely fail in their duty of care get fined millions and have their contracts terminated. However, I doubt that will happen.

[Johnoco]

And I hope the private company who make a fortune out of providing care to very vulnerable people by employing totally unsuitable people at low level wages and completely fail in their duty of care get fined millions and have their contracts terminated. However, I doubt that will happen.

They should.

But maybe they don't do blame?

[JohnM]

Well, yes, lets hope they face the full penalty of the law.

What would your solution be to the overall problem of the care of such people? The money has to come from somewhere. Could you also enlighten us on the size of the fortune?


I have to say that part of the problem lies in regulation. It is all too soft and wishy-washy..all too redolent of the light-touch so beloved of Gordon Brown.

[ckn]

And I hope the private company who make a fortune out of providing care to very vulnerable people by employing totally unsuitable people at low level wages and completely fail in their duty of care get fined millions and have their contracts terminated. However, I doubt that will happen.

New CEO. Care home manager gone. Care home manager's manager gone. All of the company's care homes are under independent investigation. I think they're not going to be making too much profit in the foreseeable future.

That said, once this is all forgotten, they'll go back to making healthy profits again.

[tim2]

My daughter has just strated working in care (elderly people) and thank God I don't have to do it.

Whilst these individuals have to take the direct blame (from the scumbags doing the abuse all the way up to the top) shouldn't we all feel somewhat responsible for allowing this system to develop in the way it has? We don't want to pay more taxes, and we don't trust councils to spend the money properly even when they do have it slushing around.

By the way, I say "we" in the general sense. This is not necessarily true of individuals but as part of a society we are voting the coalition in (and New Labour before that) and I haven't seen massive demonstrations in London or elsewhere complaining about the way we treat elderly and vulnerable people in our society.

[sam]

And I hope the private company who make a fortune out of providing care to very vulnerable people by employing totally unsuitable people at low level wages and completely fail in their duty of care get fined millions and have their contracts terminated. However, I doubt that will happen.

indeed.do you also think the nhs should be banned from treating people, after all they had such model staff as harold shipman on their books?

[WearyRhino]

I commissioned a report about 8 years ago for my employer's operational side (it is primarily well known as a funder of social research) to look into the staffing crisis in social care - little has changed. Essentially the problems are low wages, the 'unattractive' work and limited career prospects. Aside from those who have a vocation in the area, who are viciously exploited as a result, who wants to wipe old people's or disabled people's bums for minimum wage when there's another new Tesco opening soon up the road? It's exacerbated by the fact that colleges won't put on the NVQ provision for adult social care when they can fill childcare courses 10 times over. Unfortunately, if you pay peanuts you get sadistic, uninterested, unqualified monkeys.

[WearyRhino]

indeed.do you also think the nhs should be banned from treating people, after all they had such model staff as harold shipman on their books?

Harold Shipman worked in General Practice which is self-regulating and is essentially private contracting.

[sam]

Harold Shipman worked in General Practice which is self-regulating and is essentially private contracting.

so gp's don't answer to anyone?

or there's always beverley allitt. how much should the nhs be fined for her deeds?

[WearyRhino]

so gp's don't answer to anyone?

or there's always beverley allitt. how much should the nhs be fined for her deeds?

As usual, you miss the point. Whilst those neanderthal cretins were torturing innocent vulnerable people other people were making money out of it. They increase their profits by perpetuating a culture of unskilled, badly motivated and low paid workforce such that the only people who will do the job are neanderthal cretins who cannot be employed anywhere else.

[JohnM]

and the highly paid in the NHS and the the CQC? are they not making a profit? After all, it seems that £6 an hour is all you need to live on, so anyone earning more than that is surely making a profit. They certainly get taxed as if they are.

[sam]

As usual, you miss the point.

ah, the old, 'you miss the point' gubbins.

Whilst those neanderthal cretins were torturing innocent vulnerable people other people were making money out of it. They increase their profits by perpetuating a culture of unskilled, badly motivated and low paid workforce such that the only people who will do the job are neanderthal cretins who cannot be employed anywhere else.

it's a simple question, as you'd like the private sector fined for employing 'neanderthal cretins' to the tune of 'millions' for this torture, how much should the nhs be fined for employing 'neanderthal cretins' for their murders? to me, and my complete missing of the point, it just looks like another one of your ridiculous rants against a certain section of society.

[JohnM]

Never mind. Things are fine in the NHS. See here

"up 70 per cent on 2008-09 when there were 1,759 complaints, and almost twice as many as in 2007-08 when there were 1,478, according to figures from the Nursing and Midwifery Council."

of course, this does not excuse abuse in private home, but it does point to a cause other than greedy and exploitative capitalists.

[WearyRhino]

ah, the old, 'you miss the point' gubbins.

it's a simple question, as you'd like the private sector fined for employing 'neanderthal cretins' to the tune of 'millions' for this torture, how much should the nhs be fined for employing 'neanderthal cretins' for their murders? to me, and my complete missing of the point, it just looks like another one of your ridiculous rants against a certain section of society.

I think it is fundamentally wrong to make money out of people who through no fault of their own are in need of care. That is not ridiculous, it's a point of view.

[JohnM]

I think it is fundamentally wrong to make money out of people who through no fault of their own are in need of care. That is not ridiculous, it's a point of view.

so all involved to be on minimum wage?

[WearyRhino]

so all involved to be on minimum wage?

No - all involved working to a duty of care rather than a profit motive.

[JohnM]

Personal profit or corporate profit? Which is worse and why? Earning more than it costs you to to live? Profiteer!!!

[Griff9of13]

As per usual people become entrenched in their own narrow political views and only seem capable of viewing any subject remotely political from their own, narrow, viewpoint.

My own view on this:

The case should (as I believe it is) be under criminal investigation.
Anyone (regardless of position) in the company of for that mater in the regulatory body, who appear to have been very negligent, should be brought to trial.
If culpability can be proved to a company level, the company should immediately be banned form providing residential care of any kind. This will effectively put it out of business, but I doubt anyone would argue that they should continue operating if they are so negligent in their duty of care that they could allow such abuses to be carried out by its staff.

I really don’t understand the logic of expecting services to be provided by private sector companies at a profit for those companies and still be able to provide a service for less cost than local authorities doing it themselves. Are all government agencies by definition so wasteful and inefficient that they always cost more than a private sector service provider? Would it not make more sense and be ultimately more cost efficient to improve public sector productivity? Though is it possible to effectively measure productivity in a not for profit, service provision sector, i.e. how do you measure performance and drive productivity without the profit driver?

[Griff9of13]

Personal profit or corporate profit? Which is worse and why? Earning more than it costs you to to live? Profiteer!!!

I don't believe in corporate profit at the tax payers expense. Do you?