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A star is born: Shaun Johnson will soon become one of the dominant players for New Zealand.


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#1 ParisSurtout

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:29 AM

Shaun Johnson's try for the New Zealand Warriors on Saturday, where he beat 6 Brisbane Broncos players in a 73 metre run to the try line, was the greatest individual try of the year in either hemisphere.

Johnson is the best player to come out of New Zealand since Benji Marshall.

Commentators and fans marvel at the talent of Sam Tomkins. But Tomkins, though undoubtedly very talented, and the most talented English player, is not as good as several New Zealand backs.

Look at the backline talent New Zealand can muster for the international contests:


Full Back: Sam Perrett

Wing: Manu Vatuvei, Jason Nightingale, Kevin Locke

Centre: Shaun Kenny-Dowell, Steve Matai, Junior Sau

Halves: Benji Marshall, Keiren Foran, Shaun Johnson


England cannot compete with this array of talent.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 08 August 2011 - 09:33 PM.

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#2 Northern Sol

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:36 AM

There are such things as forwards. Whilst I agree that the Kiwis have better backs than we do, I wouldn't say that of their forwards.

#3 ParisSurtout

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:43 AM

There are such things as forwards. Whilst I agree that the Kiwis have better backs than we do, I wouldn't say that of their forwards.


It is arguable that on the most pessimistic appraisal of the Kiwi forwards, they are the equal of the English pack.

Therefore the superior New Zealand backs should determine the outcome of matches with England.
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#4 Northern Sol

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:45 AM

It is arguable that on the most pessimistic appraisal of the Kiwi forwards, they are the equal of the English pack.


Whose appraisal?

Their own perhaps.

#5 ParisSurtout

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:51 AM

Whose appraisal?

Their own perhaps.


Let me state it another way.

Some people argue that New Zealand has the best forward pack in the world.

Others would argue that the New Zealand pack and the English pack are roughly equal.

I have not read or heard anyone argue that the English pack is superior to New Zealand's.
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#6 tonyXIII

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:54 AM

England cannot compete with this array of talent.


I tell you what! Let's not bother with international games anymore. We'll just award the trophies on the basis of your assessment. :rolleyes:

Ever heard the saying "The total is greater than the sum of the parts."? I think we will compete. I don't think we'll win, but we won't lie down and roll over.

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#7 Northern Sol

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:03 AM

Let me state it another way.

Some people argue that New Zealand has the best forward pack in the world.

Others would argue that the New Zealand pack and the English pack are roughly equal.

I have not read or heard anyone argue that the English pack is superior to New Zealand's.


Then read it now. The English pack is at least as good as the Kiwi pack.

I get it that the Kiwis are a better side but I don't think we should just roll over and admit defeat. We can beat them.

Edited by Northern Sol, 07 August 2011 - 10:04 AM.


#8 roughyedspud

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:08 AM

SO..............why have'nt NZ beat england or GB in england since 2005 then?and only 2 times,in 12 games i think?, since the 2000 world cup

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#9 1976PMJwires

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:10 AM

Shaun Johnson's try for the New Zealand Warriors on Saturday, where he beat 6 Brisbane Broncos players in a 73 metre run to the try line, was the greatest individual try of the year in either hemisphere.

Johnson is the best player to come out of New Zealand since Benji Marshall.

Commentators and fans marvel at the talent of Sam Tomkins. But Tomkins, though undoubtedly very talented, and the most talented English player, is not as good as several New Zealand backs.



Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image Some poor Broncos defence if he beat 6 players..... or he's super super human Posted Image (tug feast)

Best try in either hemisphere, your opinions are on another solar system Posted Image

#10 1976PMJwires

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:12 AM

SO..............why have'nt NZ beat england or GB in england since 2005 then?and only 2 times,in 12 games i think?, since the 2000 world cup


That's all irrelevant to Paris


FFS a player has just scored a 73 metre try, England are going to get stuffed Posted ImagePosted Image

#11 gnidir

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:14 AM

Ive been at every warriors home game this year and if you think johnson is a superstar your blind! he makes bum decisions, drops more ball than he catches, constantly plays first for himself rather than feeding the big men in gaps, kicks on the first effing tackle and couldnt organise a pi** up in at the lion nathan brewery, thank the lord that maloney has taken ownership of the team because this kid, sparks of individual freakplay aside, is still the touch player we signed him as, he doesnt know how to play rugby league yet im afraid

#12 Didgi

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:16 AM

Perrett will not be the NZ fullback, would probably be lucky to even be in the NZ squad. I'd say the NZ pack is just as good as its backline, but the halves are really where they stand out.

Johnson has been made to look far better than he is at this stage. The presence of a very good half in Maloney gives him the ability to do the freakish stuff and not have to worry about organising.

Guess what? NZ have the same sort of lack of obvious centres as Australia and England. NZ have Matai, who is a good player but, in my opinion, not always up to international standard, and SKD, not in great form, Australia have Hodges, who is World class, and Inglis, who is out of form, as is Tonga to an extent. England probably have the greatest choice, though not quite at the level of Hodges/Inglis/Matai etc.

My NZ squad would look something like:

1. Locke
2. Nightingale
3. Kenny-Dowall
4. Matai
5. Vatuvai
reserve backs: Duffie, Beale, Hoffman, poss. Lewis Brown, Kalifa Fai Fai Loa, Sau

6. Marshall
7. Foran
9. Fein
14. Luke
reserve halves: Rangi Chase, poss. Leuluai, Johnson (at a stretch).

8. Moi Moi
10. Rapira
11. Blair
12. Mannering
13. Smith
15. Packer
16. Matulino
17. Glenn
reserve forwards: McKendry, Tamou, Bromwich, Proctor, Lewis Brown, poss. Papalii, Manu, Harrison

Edited by Didgi, 07 August 2011 - 10:23 AM.

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#13 Didgi

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:19 AM

Shaun Johnson's try for the New Zealand Warriors on Saturday, where he beat 6 Brisbane Broncos players in a 73 metre run to the try line, was the greatest individual try of the year in either hemisphere.


On this, I could probably find a few just from Sam Tomkins that would be equal or better. And a few more from other sparkling young English talents. Why are you so constantly pessimistic, not to mention wrong in your evaluation of NRL?

Edited by Didgi, 07 August 2011 - 10:20 AM.

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#14 1976PMJwires

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:26 AM

guys

Paris hasn't a fooking clue, but he's good at winding people up!!

#15 jim_57

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:59 AM

Shaun Johnson's try for the New Zealand Warriors on Saturday, where he beat 6 Brisbane Broncos players in a 73 metre run to the try line, was the greatest individual try of the year in either hemisphere.

Johnson is the best player to come out of New Zealand since Benji Marshall.

Commentators and fans marvel at the talent of Sam Tomkins. But Tomkins, though undoubtedly very talented, and the most talented English player, is not as good as several New Zealand backs.

Look at the backline talent New Zealand can muster for the international contests:


Full Back: Sam Perrett

Wing: Manu Vatuvei, Jason Nightingale, Kevin Locke

Centre: Shaun Kenny-Dowell, Steve Matai, Junior Sau

Halves: Benji Marshall, Keiren Foran, Shaun Johnson


England cannot compete with this array of talent.


1. Locke or Hoffman will fullback, both in form.
2. As it stands Foran > Johnson by a long stretch, infact Foran has been one of the best players in the comp this year.
3. Widdop, Lomax & Tomkins > Johnson

Didgi's side is pretty spot on IMO

Edited by jim_57, 07 August 2011 - 11:02 AM.


#16 ParisSurtout

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 02:25 PM

1. Locke or Hoffman will fullback, both in form.
2. As it stands Foran > Johnson by a long stretch, infact Foran has been one of the best players in the comp this year.
3. Widdop, Lomax & Tomkins > Johnson

Didgi's side is pretty spot on IMO



Didgi's backline side is based on my backline selections, except for Perrett.
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#17 MrPosh

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 05:19 PM

Didgi's backline side is based on my backline selections, except for Perrett.

:laugh:

Or it might be based on his own knowledge.

You're not doing very well tonight, Paris. Normally you're not a bad troll, but tonight's efforts are no better than a eight year old.
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#18 southstand loiner

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 07:12 PM

so paris when will you be assessing englands chances against france ?
ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#19 JohnM

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 07:52 PM

But Tomkins, though undoubtedly very talented, and the most talented English player, is not as good as several New Zealand backs.


That's not quite fair. He's just one player, not several. Clearly, three backs are better then one. :rolleyes:
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.He is however, better than most NZ backs.

#20 L Bow

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 08:41 PM

It was a very good try though if you get the chance to see it. That said the Kevin Locke try was better.




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