21 replies to this topic

[Wellsy4HullFC]

The first week of the play-offs for the last 3 years have seen pretty poor crowds for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of the season.

Would it not be of benefit to shorten the play-offs by a week to avoid this useless weekend? That weekend could be used for a blank weekend of internationals then (unlike the afterthought that is the current mid-season international), freeing players up to play for Wales, France, Ireland and Scotland as well as England and the Exiles.

I'd go with a system like:

Week 1
1st vs 6th
2nd vs 5th
3rd vs 4th

Week 2
Lowest ranked two losers out.
Highest ranked loser gets second bite.
Highest ranked two winners play at home in Week 2.
Highest ranked winner gets club call.

Week 3
Grand Final

It's similar to the NRL system except there are no byes. Some people think that a bye can be considered a disadvantage rather than an advantage (the week off could make them complacent and less battle ready).
Thered be far less chance of a repeat fixture in the final.
Stuck with club call because it could genuinely throw up a difficult choice, rather than the obvious "pick the lowest ranked team". If a lower ranked team beats a higher ranked team in week 1 (say 4th beat 3rd), then would the team with club call rather play the lower ranked team (4th) or the losing team (3rd) in the semi? It's a tough choice and would be far less predictable.

All round winner for SL and international RL in my opinion.

[hindle xiii]

I always liked your schemes!

Although the attendance aspect was distrupted today with just 9,000 and some at the game tonight.

[Wiltshire Rhino]

I like!

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I always liked your schemes!

Although the attendance aspect was distrupted today with just 9,000 and some at the game tonight.

Yeah, but to be fair no-one was actually at home!

[hindle xiii]

Yeah, but to be fair no-one was actually at home!

I was.

[Just Browny]

I actually thought of this scheme in my head last week, but rejected it for the following reason. You couldn't play the first round of games in the order specified, because if teams 1 and 2 win, the game between 3 and 4 is a dead rubber. You'd have to play 3 v 4 first, and that seems false to me.

If we have to stick with eight (and I can see the reasoning in a league of 14 with no relegation), I'd prefer the NRL system. Ideally, I think the five was best and gave the best weighting towards finishing top.

[tonyXIII]

I don't get it!. Why should losers get a second chance?

My preference is for a 4 team play-off. 1 v 4; 2 v 3; Final. Two weeks, more time for internationals, no messing about. Simple!

If you want more teams involved (why? Sorry Leeds fans), then Week 1: 1 v 8; 2 v 7; 3 v 6; 4 v 5. Week 2: semi-finals: Week 3 final. Easy.

[Father Ted]

I like both systems mentioned and agree a 3 week play off is far better.
This year's 4 weeks has finally found to be too long.

[barrowraiderskid]

I personally don't think you should be in the play offs if you finish 8th. I prefer the old system and current Championship one. Gives teams more of an advantage for finishing in the top two.

[Pottsy]

Top five system worked just fine.

[Manx RL]

Top five system worked just fine.

3 v 5, it works perfectly

[Wellsy4HullFC]

3 v 5, it works perfectly

Not possible in the old top six system (something I didn't like as it guaranteed someone from the top 2 would be in the final and would have guaranteed to have played at least one game less than everyone else), but could happen in the top five.

Edited by Wellsy4HullFC, 02 October 2011 - 08:42 PM.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Just for arguments sake (to show the difficulty of the club call in this system), if the play-offs this season used this system and the week 1 results went something like:

Warrington(1st) beat Catalans (6th)
Wigan (2nd) lose to Leeds (5th)
Saints (3rd) beat Huddersfield (4th)

Catalans and Huddersfield would be out.
Saints would get a home game and be out of club call due to Wigan losing.
Warrington then have to choose between Leeds and Wigan (3 rankings between them, but Leeds on the back of a win and Wigan on the back of a loss). That's a hard choice, and don't know who I'd pick!

[Just Browny]

Just for arguments sake (to show the difficulty of the club call in this system), if the play-offs this season used this system and the week 1 results went something like:

Warrington(1st) beat Catalans (6th)
Wigan (2nd) lose to Leeds (5th)
Saints (3rd) beat Huddersfield (4th)

Catalans and Huddersfield would be out.
Saints would get a home game and be out of club call due to Wigan losing.
Warrington then have to choose between Leeds and Wigan (3 rankings between them, but Leeds on the back of a win and Wigan on the back of a loss). That's a hard choice, and don't know who I'd pick!

But as per the situation I pointed out earlier, if:

Warrington beat Catalans
Wigan beat Leeds

That make Saints v Huddersfield a dead game because both teams are staying in the competition, and both will be playing away next week.

[DeadShotKeen]

*yawn*

Do we really need another thread about this?

Current system is fantastic, keep as is.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

But as per the situation I pointed out earlier, if:

Warrington beat Catalans
Wigan beat Leeds

That make Saints v Huddersfield a dead game because both teams are staying in the competition, and both will be playing away next week.

Then you play it first.
It's the same as in the NRL system if 1st, 2nd and 3rd all win. Regardless of the result, both 4th and 5th would be playing at home in week 2.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

*yawn*

Do we really need another thread about this?

Current system is fantastic, keep as is.

Clearly there are A LOT of people that disagree. If the system was fantastic, people wouldn't keep starting threads about it.

And if you're not interested in the thread, don't post in it.

[TheObserver]

The first week of the play-offs for the last 3 years have seen pretty poor crowds for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of the season.

Would it not be of benefit to shorten the play-offs by a week to avoid this useless weekend? That weekend could be used for a blank weekend of internationals then (unlike the afterthought that is the current mid-season international), freeing players up to play for Wales, France, Ireland and Scotland as well as England and the Exiles.

Agree that a 3 week finals system would be easier on the players, create a more exciting and intense competition for them and france, and free up players for rest or preparation before the internationals.

I'd go with a system like:

Decent idea, but I'd go for a top 7, as I'd like to see the Minor Premiers/League Leaders be rewarded for their regular season performance by being given a first week bye. Furthermore, using a Top 7 (rather than a Top 6) would keep more teams in the running for the finals for longer, and keep interest in more leagues games closer to the end of the season. So, I'd suggest:

Week 1: 1 receives the bye, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5.
Week 2: 1 club call, other 2 play off. OR 1 versus lowest ranked team, other 2 teams play off.
Week 3: Grand Final.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Agree that a 3 week finals system would be easier on the players, create a more exciting and intense competition for them and france, and free up players for rest or preparation before the internationals.

That's the main thing for me. A free weekend for international RL is a must for me. You can't shorten the SL season down due to financial reasons, but shortening the play-offs is possible as teams aren't guaranteed to play in all weeks of it.
An international weekend mid-season, all on Sky, would be great for the game. England vs Exiles on the Saturday afternoon, France vs Wales in the evening, Scotland vs Ireland on the Sunday afternoon. Could even throw in an minor nation game in there such as Italy vs Lebanon to show the game is growing.

Decent idea, but I'd go for a top 7, as I'd like to see the Minor Premiers/League Leaders be rewarded for their regular season performance by being given a first week bye. Furthermore, using a Top 7 (rather than a Top 6) would keep more teams in the running for the finals for longer, and keep interest in more leagues games closer to the end of the season. So, I'd suggest:

Week 1: 1 receives the bye, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5.
Week 2: 1 club call, other 2 play off. OR 1 versus lowest ranked team, other 2 teams play off.
Week 3: Grand Final.

I thought about that version as well, but like I said before, is the bye really a benefit? 1st could go into the semis cold and be knocked out straight away because of it.
But it's definitely a valid point about the interest for lower clubs with relegation gone to have an 8 team play-off. Although personally I'd like to see other incentives for clubs to aim for other than a play-off place (such as a place in world championship competitions, etc.). And maybe bring back relegation as well in the future once clubs in the Championship meet standards.

[TheObserver]

That's the main thing for me. A free weekend for international RL is a must for me. You can't shorten the SL season down due to financial reasons, but shortening the play-offs is possible as teams aren't guaranteed to play in all weeks of it.

SL already has been shortened. Clubs played 28 SL regular round games from 2000 to 2006, before dropping back to 27.

I thought about that version as well, but like I said before, is the bye really a benefit? 1st could go into the semis cold and be knocked out straight away because of it.

They could be knocked out, but elimination is less likely, as is coming in 'cold' - they would have just played 26 weeks of football, so they'd have the match conditioning. The week off more likely allows players to get over niggling injuries, recharge the batteries after a long season. Consider the teams that benefited from a week off during the finals series. In 13 years of SL finals series, only twice have the premiers played all four weeks - Wigan last year, and Bradford in 2005. In 7 out of 13 finals campaigns, the Premiers have had one week off, and in four of those seasons, it was Week 1. Indeed, on another 4 campaigns, the premiers only played 2 weeks in the finals, having weeks 1 and 3 off.

In the NRL as well, in 11 of the past 17 grand finals since 1996 (including the two in 1997), the GF winners had a week off during the finals. Brisbane were given a bye in Week 1 in 1997-1998, and won both comfortably. The other 9 winners had week 2 off - indeed, the last five NRL GF winners had week 2 off.