14 replies to this topic

[weloveyouwakefield2]

Three brilliant half backs on show in Grand Final tonight, why do we need somebody from New Zealand in the English squad???????

[Number 16]

Three brilliant half backs on show in Grand Final tonight, why do we need somebody from New Zealand in the English squad???????

Lomax, Gaskell, Burrow








and McGuire.

[my missus]

please don't start pushing lomax he is very poor and proved it tonight, if anythin sticks in my memory from tonight it will be burrow waving to him as he passed by.

[Bob8]

please don't start pushing lomax he is very poor and proved it tonight, if anythin sticks in my memory from tonight it will be burrow waving to him as he passed by.

Or Burrow played well. As a Saints fan, I am not disappointed with their performance and am optimistic about how many kids we have. Leeds were merely better.

[Ponterover]

Three brilliant half backs on show in Grand Final tonight, why do we need somebody from New Zealand in the English squad???????

Cut Rangi Chase in half and he bleeds purist red Jerusalem, ask anyone from C*s

How we selected Jonny Foreigner ahead of Burrows is quite beyond my little brain

[Steve May]

Here's an interesting fact when talking about the lack of decent English half backs.

Starting 6 and 7s in each SL Grand Final winning team:

1998 - Tony Smith (GB), Henry Paul (NZ)
1999 - Tommy Martyn (GB), Paul Sculthorpe (GB)
2000 - Tommy Martyn (GB), Sean Long (GB)
2001 - Henry Paul (NZ), Robbie Paul (NZ)
2002 - Robbie Paul (NZ), Paul Deacon (GB)
2003 - Karl Pratt (GB), Paul Deacon (GB)
2004 - Kevin Sinfield (GB), Danny McGuire (GB)
2005 - Iestyn Harris (GB), Paul Deacon (GB)
2006 - Leon Pryce (GB), Sean Long (GB)
2007 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2008 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2009 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2010 - Paul Deacon (GB), Thomas Leuluai (NZ)
2011 - Kevin Sinfield (GB), Danny McGuire (GB)

The only non-British halves ever to win the comp in the Grand Final era are the Paul brothers, who have been in the UK basically forever, and Thomas Leuluai, who has also spent most of his career in the UK.

[steef]

Here's an interesting fact when talking about the lack of decent English half backs.

Starting 6 and 7s in each SL Grand Final winning team:

1998 - Tony Smith (GB), Henry Paul (NZ)
1999 - Tommy Martyn (GB), Paul Sculthorpe (GB)
2000 - Tommy Martyn (GB), Sean Long (GB)
2001 - Henry Paul (NZ), Robbie Paul (NZ)
2002 - Robbie Paul (NZ), Paul Deacon (GB)
2003 - Karl Pratt (GB), Paul Deacon (GB)
2004 - Kevin Sinfield (GB), Danny McGuire (GB)
2005 - Iestyn Harris (GB), Paul Deacon (GB)
2006 - Leon Pryce (GB), Sean Long (GB)
2007 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2008 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2009 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2010 - Paul Deacon (GB), Thomas Leuluai (NZ)
2011 - Kevin Sinfield (GB), Danny McGuire (GB)

The only non-British halves ever to win the comp in the Grand Final era are the Paul brothers, who have been in the UK basically forever, and Thomas Leuluai, who has also spent most of his career in the UK.

That is quite a shock to read, would have thought that there would be more foreign players in that list.

[Bulliac]

Here's an interesting fact when talking about the lack of decent English half backs.

Starting 6 and 7s in each SL Grand Final winning team:

1998 - Tony Smith (GB), Henry Paul (NZ)
1999 - Tommy Martyn (GB), Paul Sculthorpe (GB)
2000 - Tommy Martyn (GB), Sean Long (GB)
2001 - Henry Paul (NZ), Robbie Paul (NZ)
2002 - Robbie Paul (NZ), Paul Deacon (GB)
2003 - Karl Pratt (GB), Paul Deacon (GB)
2004 - Kevin Sinfield (GB), Danny McGuire (GB)
2005 - Iestyn Harris (GB), Paul Deacon (GB)
2006 - Leon Pryce (GB), Sean Long (GB)
2007 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2008 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2009 - Danny McGuire (GB), Rob Burrow (GB)
2010 - Paul Deacon (GB), Thomas Leuluai (NZ)
2011 - Kevin Sinfield (GB), Danny McGuire (GB)

The only non-British halves ever to win the comp in the Grand Final era are the Paul brothers, who have been in the UK basically forever, and Thomas Leuluai, who has also spent most of his career in the UK.

I think you've got the wrong team for 2002. Bulls won '01 and '03 but not '02 which might have been Saints? So, probably Sean Long and ????
On Google it turned out to be Scully. Guess it only strengthens to hold of British halves on the GF.

Edited by Bulliac, 09 October 2011 - 12:53 PM.

[Steve May]

I think you've got the wrong team for 2002. Bulls won '01 and '03 but not '02 which might have been Saints? So, probably Sean Long and ????
On Google it turned out to be Scully. Guess it only strengthens to hold of British halves on the GF.

Good spot! I think that strengthens the point.

[Bob8]

In response to your well reasoned point, I can only reply with what I remember of my impressions. Of the half-backs listed, only Tommy Martyn and Rob Burrow really excited me and only one of them took on the Aussies. I feel far more optimistic about the halves we are producing now then I have ever done in my memory of watching the game (at the age of thirty-five).

[kier]

In response to your well reasoned point, I can only reply with what I remember of my impressions. Of the half-backs listed, only Tommy Martyn and Rob Burrow really excited me and only one of them took on the Aussies. I feel far more optimistic about the halves we are producing now then I have ever done in my memory of watching the game (at the age of thirty-five).

I remember reading in a copy of Open Rugby/RLW an interview with Tommy Martyn (this was well over ten years ago). There was a question about his step up in form during the latter years of his career. His response was that the (then) new coach at Saints had asked for a chat and basically said "your error rate is too good - it must mean you're not taking the half chance when it's coming your way". Once he'd been given the freedom to make a mistake he moved form being a solid player to a very good one.....too late to make a break into an international shirt though.

At the time I thought it was symptomatic of the way the game was being coached at the time - structure and power trumping individual vision.

I haven't watched enough ESL in the past 10 years but I'm hoping there has been a shift of emphasis in recent seasons?

[Saint Toppy]

please don't start pushing lomax he is very poor and proved it tonight, if anythin sticks in my memory from tonight it will be burrow waving to him as he passed by.

Lomax wasn't as good in the final as he has been all season because he was playing with a pretty bad leg injury. He picked up the knock in the Wigan game and Saints tried to keep it quiet during thr week, although the huge strapping he had on his leg straight from the start sort of gave it away. For most of the 2nd half he was limping badly and only stayed on due to the injuries to Shenton & Wellens meaning they had no other backs they could bring on.

[Exiled Wiganer]

They will be good players, but Saints' "success" has been forward based. They have struggled to score points as the GF showed, with only 2 tries for all their possession. They're a little way off top class, though have already travelled a long way this year.

[MattSantos]

From Saturday's performance alone, Lomax and Gaskell are no where near the quality of an International shirt.

[Wolford6]

It seemed to me that Lee Gaskell bombed two try-opportunities on Saturday by glory hunting instead of passing to a better-placed team-mate. Each time, he didn't have the power or pace to make the line.

He would be my first choice standoff in any England team. As would be Ryan Bailey at prop, JJB and John Wilkin in the second row, plus Steve McNamara as coach.