50 replies to this topic

[Just Browny]

I heard theres a bid from Timbucktoo that would enable the RFL to expand the game yet further, so they are waiting for them to finalise things before announcing.

What a farce. How about putting some money into the ailing heartland clubs weve already got, before flogging a dead horse in non heartland areas?

Surely making the current clubs in the championship and championship 1 stronger financially and helping them grow their fan bases, and gradually working out from the heartlands would be a better idea than sticking random clubs miles away.

Call me a cynic, but expansion clubs have been created and fallen by the wayside for years even with RFL money behind them, the only exception being the eternal white elephant that is London Broncos / Harlequins /London Crusaders / Fulham, whilst the traditional clubs somehow survive by hook or by crook, maybe its time we helped them out?

Northampton and any other new club will last 2 or 3 years maximum, and at what cost to the clubs in championship 1 with them who dont make the top 4 cut off for the championship this time?

The RFL are a joke and are systematically destroying the game below super league, and they probably dont even realise they are.

Im all for expansion, but not at the expense of what weve already got - surely its common sense to ensure the clubs we already have can grow and prosper before trying to expand?

Just goes to show, if its not super league, they couldnt care less.

www.rlfans.com

[Fax1978]

The thing is that the RFL haven't accepted any bids as yet (aside from Northampton). I think the RFL are doing a fine job this time round, invite tenders from all around the UK and only go ahead with the ones that look like they have a decent chance of success. Since they haven't yet chosen to go ahead with any dodgy looking bids, I can't see why anyone would have cause for complaint. They seem to have learnt from past mistakes.

I dont have any complaint with due diligence the more there is the better in my eyes to ensure the greatest possible chance of success.

My only problem is with the premature announcement of 4 new clubs to be drip fed to the press/public every month since Nov. This has not happened and if it now turns out they cannot get 4 clubs after all they look and make the game look daft while also having major implications on the hastily arranged promotion and no relegation issue for Champ and Champ 1 clubs.

[Mike S]

The thing is that the RFL haven't accepted any bids as yet (aside from Northampton). I think the RFL are doing a fine job this time round, invite tenders from all around the UK and only go ahead with the ones that look like they have a decent chance of success. Since they haven't yet chosen to go ahead with any dodgy looking bids, I can't see why anyone would have cause for complaint. They seem to have learnt from past mistakes.

What evidence is there that Northampton has a chance of success

I would allow Hemel to join as long as there is a promise to keep developing the ground. They have proved themselves over a long period of time and can obtain players consistantly to make the long journeys required. There may be financial or others issues I know nothing about but they deserve the opportunity

Coventry have a ground of the right size and hopefully cost and can draw good crowds. As long as there is a medium term plan to use local players as I am sure there is the they should be in

Oxford offer nothing and whilst I would like to see Bristol or Gloucester in, if the plan relies solely on a single backer then we really are going over old and failed ideas. I would hope any team who intend to use players from the North and travel down on matchdays have already been excluded from the process.

As an expansionist I want to see well run sustainable teams or just the present situation of clubs playing for fun

[Lounge Room Lizard]

The RFL have spent a load of cash on Odsal. If the RFL are going down the road of helping clubs out like Bradford, Keighley, Rochdale why not invest in Hemel or Coventry for example. The RFL agree to loan x amount to get the stadium up to a certain standard as well as owning or holding the lease if Hemel, Coventry dont currently do so and maybe even pay all the Travelling costs for the first 5 years. I have no problem helping out heartland clubs, but should the RFL keep handing out loans or money to clubs who have made poor business decisions? Maybe if ALL Clubs had a "Live Account" which they and the bank had to send a income and outgoing each month then clubs wouldnt get so deep in trouble. I would rather the RFL, if they are going to hand out loans etc, do it to expansion clubs and get them off the field up to standard and make sure the costs are not too high. If we are going to develop the sport outside the North,then lets help the expansion teams off the field first and get them up and running. No doubt some people will be upset, but as long as they have a salary cap that is the same as everybody else and are not pushed through to the higher divisions when they are not ready, then I cant see what the problem is.

What a farce. How about putting some money into the ailing heartland clubs weve already got, before flogging a dead horse in non heartland areas?

Have the Heartland clubs not had enough help from the RFL over the years? The Championship clubs would do better by working together and thinking of ways of getting bigger crowds-maybe all away season ticket holders get in for half price or a Championship lottery where fans can enter and there can be loads of cash prizes or free tickets with the rest split equally between clubs. Its not just up to the RFL to make the Championship a success, but the clubs as well. Look at how far Featherstone have come in the last 5 or 6 years. Where was York 10 years ago? Batley have made strides forward as well. But there is so much more that could and should be done by the RFL and The Clubs themselves. Fans need to look at the bigger picture not just their own clubs issues.

[The 4 of Us]

Not sure what's going on with the Bris/Glos bid, but I would have thought with the grassroots work in Bristol, as well as the size if the place, the Union club not doing as well as it could, and the need to avoid a clash with a premier Union club like Gloucester are all good reasons to base a C1 club in Bristol. What are the benefits in Glos'?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I heard theres a bid from Timbucktoo that would enable the RFL to expand the game yet further, so they are waiting for them to finalise things before announcing.

Did you think of that all by yourself?

What a farce. How about putting some money into the ailing heartland clubs weve already got, before flogging a dead horse in non heartland areas?

You mean like buying Odsal, owning part of Spotland and Cougar Park, etc. and then getting absolutely slated by the same people saying they don't do anything to help the heartlands!

Surely making the current clubs in the championship and championship 1 stronger financially and helping them grow their fan bases, and gradually working out from the heartlands would be a better idea than sticking random clubs miles away.

They aren't random. They're being selected from people that made bids. These are place that have gradually worked their way up from grassroots (like everyone has wanted them to). Yet people still want them to jump through hoops.
Gradually working out from the heartlands? So where's the next place out from the heartlands that's acceptable? There's not exactly much to work with going north. What's between York and Gateshead? Are they OK? There's only Nottingham and Derby on the M1 between Sheffield and Coventry/Northampton. Do we have to wait for someone there to be ready before we let anyone else in?

Surely expanding the leagues so that there are enough teams to play enough games will help the current Championship clubs? And surely it's their own job to make themselves stronger financially at the end of the day, and not rely on handouts from the RFL.

Call me a cynic,

You're a cynic.

• A person who believes that people are motivated purely by self-interest rather than acting for honorable or unselfish reasons.
• A person who questions whether something will happen or is worthwhile.

but expansion clubs have been created and fallen by the wayside for years even with RFL money behind them, the only exception being the eternal white elephant that is London Broncos / Harlequins /London Crusaders / Fulham, whilst the traditional clubs somehow survive by hook or by crook, maybe its time we helped them out?

Northampton and any other new club will last 2 or 3 years maximum, and at what cost to the clubs in championship 1 with them who dont make the top 4 cut off for the championship this time?

You mean like the other expansion clubs in the Championships? London Skolars and Gateshead seem to be sticking around. South Wales has had a presence since 2006 (except in 2009 when they were in SL).

The RFL are a joke and are systematically destroying the game below super league, and they probably dont even realise they are.

Yawn.

Im all for expansion, but not at the expense of what weve already got

So you're not for expansion at all then. What a ridiculously contradicting statement!

- surely its common sense to ensure the clubs we already have can grow and prosper before trying to expand?

What if all the clubs we have are dead ducks? Not saying they are, but in that situation, when would you give up on them and move on?

Just goes to show, if its not super league, they couldnt care less.

Just goes to show that I'm glad people like you don't run the game.

[bowes]

Not sure what's going on with the Bris/Glos bid, but I would have thought with the grassroots work in Bristol, as well as the size if the place, the Union club not doing as well as it could, and the need to avoid a clash with a premier Union club like Gloucester are all good reasons to base a C1 club in Bristol. What are the benefits in Glos'?

Gloucester's nearer the backer's house.

[Northern Sol]

What evidence is there that Northampton has a chance of success

None in the public domain. All we know is that they are backed by a soccer club. Still I think it's enough IMO to give them a chance at CC1, just not to start the inevitable SL talk.

I would allow Hemel to join as long as there is a promise to keep developing the ground. They have proved themselves over a long period of time and can obtain players consistantly to make the long journeys required. There may be financial or others issues I know nothing about but they deserve the opportunity

Coventry have a ground of the right size and hopefully cost and can draw good crowds. As long as there is a medium term plan to use local players as I am sure there is the they should be in

Oxford offer nothing and whilst I would like to see Bristol or Gloucester in, if the plan relies solely on a single backer then we really are going over old and failed ideas. I would hope any team who intend to use players from the North and travel down on matchdays have already been excluded from the process.

As an expansionist I want to see well run sustainable teams or just the present situation of clubs playing for fun

I'd agree, I'm just pointing out that the RFL can hardly be accused of "pins in a map" this time round. The only team they've accepted so far is Northampton. You might accuse them of being over cautious but the reverse makes no sense.

Edited by Northern Sol, 02 February 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[ParisSurtout]

Presumably this is a rolling process, not one with a fixed deadline?

If so, then Bristol and Coventry can still be accepted in the future if their bids are good.

[Northern Sol]

Presumably this is a rolling process, not one with a fixed deadline?

If so, then Bristol and Coventry can still be accepted in the future if their bids are good.

More than likely but I think it is fair to conclude that if things were straightforward, we would have heard something about the other clubs by now.

It's not impossible that another club may join Northampton or even three more since nobody has been ruled out but I think that it is a distinct possibility that Northampton will be the only new club.

I'd rather that it was this way than have games cancelled and clubs folding mid-season.

[thirteenthman]

More than likely but I think it is fair to conclude that if things were straightforward, we would have heard something about the other clubs by now.

It's not impossible that another club may join Northampton or even three more since nobody has been ruled out but I think that it is a distinct possibility that Northampton will be the only new club.

I'd rather that it was this way than have games cancelled and clubs folding mid-season.

But if no other clubs were elevated to CC1, what would happen to the division next year? The RFL are already committed to 4 teams going up from CC1 to the Championship. Unless a few more clubs do join CC1 it'll be a very small competition. And that is surely the problem with announcing the expansion of both divisions when, it appears, we don't know if there are 4 clubs ready to join CC1.

[West Country Eagle]

Not sure what's going on with the Bris/Glos bid, but I would have thought with the grassroots work in Bristol, as well as the size if the place, the Union club not doing as well as it could, and the need to avoid a clash with a premier Union club like Gloucester are all good reasons to base a C1 club in Bristol. What are the benefits in Glos'?

Well, the University of Gloucester are quite pro-League, there's a development/community coach and there's nothing to do in Gloucester bar play/watch rugby (of either code)

If there's a bid from Bristol, they should go with that. Pointless giving the city a World Cup game if there's then going to be no pro/semi-pro rugby in the city and newcomers will have to go to Gloucester, Given the Glos-Bris rivalry, they won't.

[Northern Sol]

But if no other clubs were elevated to CC1, what would happen to the division next year? The RFL are already committed to 4 teams going up from CC1 to the Championship. Unless a few more clubs do join CC1 it'll be a very small competition. And that is surely the problem with announcing the expansion of both divisions when, it appears, we don't know if there are 4 clubs ready to join CC1.

The goalposts being shifted mid-season would hardly constitute a shock. League fans are quite used to these kinds of announcements being followed by a swift volte face.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

But if no other clubs were elevated to CC1, what would happen to the division next year? The RFL are already committed to 4 teams going up from CC1 to the Championship. Unless a few more clubs do join CC1 it'll be a very small competition. And that is surely the problem with announcing the expansion of both divisions when, it appears, we don't know if there are 4 clubs ready to join CC1.

Surely they'd be happy as they wouldn't have to travel to all those horrible far away places and can play their local teams twice...

[bowes]

Rugby League World says the RFL are aiming for clubs to be based in places where they can tap up RU talent missing out on a Premiership spot at RU clubs. Would explain why Northampton and if the bid can be sorted out Bristol are the RFL's preferred sides.

[PhilCarrington]

Surely they'd be happy as they wouldn't have to travel to all those horrible far away places and can play their local teams twice...

A seven team league with, say a Cumbrian club, Gateshead, London, Doncaster, a Welsh club and one of Oldham or Rochdale, together with Northampton wouldn't have much in the way of local derbies.

Hopefully the RFL have just delayed the announcement to allow the focus to be on the start of the season and it's all in hand. If only...

[Lobbygobbler]

Rugby League World says the RFL are aiming for clubs to be based in places where they can tap up RU talent missing out on a Premiership spot at RU clubs. Would explain why Northampton and if the bid can be sorted out Bristol are the RFL's preferred sides.

So basically the rejects?

[bowes]

So basically the rejects?

Yeah though they'd be good enough for Championship 1. Would prefer they focus on RL grassroots development though.

[Methven Hornet]

Yeah though they'd be good enough for Championship 1. Would prefer they focus on RL grassroots development though.

Perhaps it's a numbers thing at this time. Building a CC1-standard squad from local RL grassroots players would probably be impossible at present. Supplementing those who have grown up with RL - and are good enough! - with good quality union players seems a sensible strategy. It seems to be working in South Wales.

The important thing, initially, is to get the clubs up and running, and competitive, but a major reason for having clubs at this level is to provide local playing opportunities for RL players at a higher standard than is currently available. I would also hope that, over time, clubs like Northampton and Bristol would develop their own talent.

It still seems better than the old expansion strategy of having Lancashire and Yorkshire players training up north during the week and travelling down at the weekend to play.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Rugby League World says the RFL are aiming for clubs to be based in places where they can tap up RU talent missing out on a Premiership spot at RU clubs. Would explain why Northampton and if the bid can be sorted out Bristol are the RFL's preferred sides.

If thats the case its very poor thinking by the RFL. Rugby Union is not anything like Rugby League and we as a game should not be looking to pick up players not good enough to play top level Union.. And the RFL should be encouraging development of the game and both Pro and amateur teams bringing through youngsters and locals whether that be in Wigan, Halifax, Featherstone, Leeds or Bristol, Hemel, Northampton etc.