39 replies to this topic

[Konkrete]

tonyXIII, on 04 February 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

IIRC, even Shaun McRae was pointing that out about 20 minutes in. Something about Widnes failing to break the Wakefield line after God-knows-how-many ptbs in their 20 metre area. Then Wakefield almost scoring through Cockayne and Lauitiiti strolling through to score with ease on Wakefield's two sorties into Widnes' half.

The "margin metre" is a nonsense, but it is relatively harmless. It's the whole Sky presentation team that gets my goat.

Personalities aside we've now got two games a week, magazine programme, red button, interview show, match of the day and Soo, Nrl GF, Exiles. Add to that BBC radio show and CC plus NRL and Championship on Prem Sports and it's looking pretty good.

Thought Sky look to be moving on after last night's effort. Kear is always worth listening to and I reckon Carney will be the anchor when Eddie finally goes. Clarkey is ok apart from his Wigan Torretts (sp) and Wells is excellent value from the side line.  Just wish they'd end this obsession with McRae.

[bird]

Both Kear and McRae made rings round the margin meter when it came to reading the game

[Wilderspoolmemories]

1976PMJwires, on 03 February 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

It's a Viagra machine , god help us when Wigan play.... Erection city, new York watch out!

Hilarious!
"Eddie.......what do you think of my new invention,eddie? The margin meter. The last time I put it on the screen for the viewers at home eddie,my marvellous margin meter,with it's extrrrreeeeeeeeemmmmmmeeeeeeeee accuracy, predicted a wakefield win by 8 points,my marvellous margin meter is so accurate you see eddie. What's that eddie? Wakefield won by 18????????!  

[terrywebbisgod]

Can it be renamed "Clarkey's C##pometer"

[Wakefield Ram]

I can only guess that the flaw with the MM is that it just assumes that whatever happens in the first 20 mins or whatever will continue to happen through the whole game. Which is clearly nonsense as games usually ebb and flow.

It will be interesting to see how it works when the likes of Warrington are on too form against a poor team. It could predict some mammoth scores

[Konkrete]

Interestingly Clarky said tonight that at no stage does the MM consider the current score. QED, it's bollockks.

[tonyXIII]

Konkrete, on 04 February 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Personalities aside we've now got two games a week, magazine programme, red button, interview show, match of the day and Soo, Nrl GF, Exiles. Add to that BBC radio show and CC plus NRL and Championship on Prem Sports and it's looking pretty good.

Thought Sky look to be moving on after last night's effort. Kear is always worth listening to and I reckon Carney will be the anchor when Eddie finally goes. Clarkey is ok apart from his Wigan Torretts (sp) and Wells is excellent value from the side line.  Just wish they'd end this obsession with McRae.

Of course you're right! I was tarring the whole crew with same brush as Stevo and Eddie, which is a mistake. Phil Clarke comes across like a kid in a toy shop, but does know his stuff and deserves a better role in the programme. Kear is very good indeed and always gives true insight into the game. McRae is ... least said, soonest mended. Wells seems a bit too like a school teacher for my taste. Carney is good and (for me, a huge bonus) he doesn't sound 'Northern'.

On the whole, not a bad team. It's just the two front men who need to be replaced.

[tonyXIII]

Back on topic, and the "Margin Meter".

It sounds to me like they are using a fairly simple algorithm in which different factors are incorporated into the data with an appropriate 'weighting'. This would explain the wild swings during the first 20 minutes. What I can't understand is why they wouldn't use the current score as a factor. It seems to me to be a fairly important factor in any attempt to predict a final score. However, it's possible they use the 'current margin' without using an actual score, which would allow them to claim that they 'don't use the score'.

However they do it, it still boils down to trying to predict the future. That is an impossible task as any gambler should have learnt. How can they they possibly predict a 50th minute injury to a key player (eg. Rangi Chase in last year's Cas team)? In a tight game, the loss of a key player can tip the balance for any team.

The MM is pointless as a serious device. As a bit of fun, fair enough, but let's hear less about the damn thing and more about the game.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

isn't it a song by Hall and Oates?

[deluded pom?]

l, on 05 February 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

isn't it a song by Hall and Oates?

Only to someone with cauliflower ears.

[1976PMJwires]

Wilderspoolmemories said:

1328370590[/url]' post='2424250']
Hilarious!
"Eddie.......what do you think of my new invention,eddie? The margin meter. The last time I put it on the screen for the viewers at home eddie,my marvellous margin meter,with it's extrrrreeeeeeeeemmmmmmeeeeeeeee accuracy, predicted a wakefield win by 8 points,my marvellous margin meter is so accurate you see eddie. What's that eddie? Wakefield won by 18????????!  

Love it

[Maximus Decimus]

Konkrete, on 04 February 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

You could tell Wakey were going to win that game from about the 20 minute mark, even though they were behind. The MM was at that stage predicting a comfy Widnes win. The MM is a novel idea but it's never going to be subtle  enough to pick up things that can't really be measured by stats.

I was watching the game with a few that had no knowledge of RL and they struggled to understand why I was anxious when Widnes were winning. It was because of this reason. To anyone who watches RL it was clear that Wakey were winning the ruck and had looked far more dangerous in our 20. We were winning simply because we had won the territorial battle but it was obvious that over 80 minutes this would be incredibly difficult to keep up and so it proved.

That said, the Margin Meter could have a place but used differently to how it is now. It should be obvious to even Phil Clarke that after 10 minutes its effectiveness is next to nil. So little of the game has taken place to make a judgement. I suspect after 50-60 minutes it will actually be quite accurate. They should bring it out at half time as a talking point rather than a future predictor. Something like, 'The Margin Meter suggests that if changes aren't made Castleford will win this by 10.' Or with 20 minutes to go, 'Widnes are really up against it, the Margin Meter is suggesting that the stats are not on their side and they are likely to lose this game, they need to hold on.'

Often in games the commentary team will point out missed tackles, yardage, completed sets etc as evidence that although the scoreboard says one team is winning, the stats say that they are up against it. The Margin Meter should just be used as a more technical way of saying this, based on 700 games teams would usually lose in that situation.

Instead they have made themselves look like clowns by trying to make it a future predictor and inevitably it failed miserably and is now just an embarrassment.

[Southstander13]

Maximus Decimus, on 06 February 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

That said, the Margin Meter could have a place but used differently to how it is now. It should be obvious to even Phil Clarke that after 10 minutes its effectiveness is next to nil. So little of the game has taken place to make a judgement. I suspect after 50-60 minutes it will actually be quite accurate. They should bring it out at half time as a talking point rather than a future predictor. Something like, 'The Margin Meter suggests that if changes aren't made Castleford will win this by 10.' Or with 20 minutes to go, 'Widnes are really up against it, the Margin Meter is suggesting that the stats are not on their side and they are likely to lose this game, they need to hold on.'

Often in games the commentary team will point out missed tackles, yardage, completed sets etc as evidence that although the scoreboard says one team is winning, the stats say that they are up against it. The Margin Meter should just be used as a more technical way of saying this, based on 700 games teams would usually lose in that situation.

Instead they have made themselves look like clowns by trying to make it a future predictor and inevitably it failed miserably and is now just an embarrassment.

That is exactly what ive been saying. At first I thought it was a joke but I can see a place for it as long as they get quickly away from it being a score predictor!

The way it was sold to us was that this will predict the winner of a game, and the likely margin. They had set it up for a big fall when in reality, its actually quite an interesting and useful tool as a talking point. But Sky put far too much emphasis on it and made it in to a bit of a joke.

[petero]

As I have said previously, I am forgoing S/L this term and making my centre of interest the NRL and NL1 on premiersports.

This thread only enhances that decision as one that will be proven to be astute in more ways still.

What a load of Sh** this all sounds and even more so what a load of nonsense too. I tune in to watch R/L not some set of infantile idiots playing out their fantasies over playthings that children might even shun. I cannot think that I have heard of anything dafter connected with a serious sporting event. I suppose that Stevoe's old cliche: if youv'e got the technology use it.........spiel was repeatedly employed....bah.

Why is it that this method of ever more, inaptly named, improvements to watching sport has to be constantly sought out and then imposed upon the spectating/viewing public? They are mainly with some very limited exceptions, completely and utterly meaningless and add nothing to, even detract from the pleasure of simply watching a sporting event for what it is.
Its all so bloody childish and absolutely unnecessary.

[John Rhino]

Just Browny, on 04 February 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Sky have been involved in RL long enough to know that this is exactly the sort of thing RL fans will absolutely love hating.

It's silly but harmless, creates a talking point and a bit of interest around the game.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

And the commentary team? The two front men are well past their sell by date. As for Phil Clarke I'm not so sure. He knows his stuff but does suffer from a sense of humour bypass at times.
Carney and Kear would make a great team.

[HKR AWAY DAYS]

deluded pom?, on 04 February 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

I hope they have enough fifty pence pieces for it.

Nope, they used them all up on our floodlights!  

It is a bit of pointless fun really. I'm going to watch a couple of games tonight and see what all the fuss is about!

[JohnM]

Have no fear. All is revealed here

[Old Frightful]

Some alternatives?

The second one may suffer meltdown on Saturday...

[Maximus Decimus]

petero, on 06 February 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

As I have said previously, I am forgoing S/L this term and making my centre of interest the NRL and NL1 on premiersports.

This thread only enhances that decision as one that will be proven to be astute in more ways still.

What a load of Sh** this all sounds and even more so what a load of nonsense too. I tune in to watch R/L not some set of infantile idiots playing out their fantasies over playthings that children might even shun. I cannot think that I have heard of anything dafter connected with a serious sporting event. I suppose that Stevoe's old cliche: if youv'e got the technology use it.........spiel was repeatedly employed....bah.

Why is it that this method of ever more, inaptly named, improvements to watching sport has to be constantly sought out and then imposed upon the spectating/viewing public? They are mainly with some very limited exceptions, completely and utterly meaningless and add nothing to, even detract from the pleasure of simply watching a sporting event for what it is.
Its all so bloody childish and absolutely unnecessary.

I'm sorry even by rugby league standards this is a ridiculous over-reaction.

[1976PMJwires]

There's a new one for wigan / Leeds...... Mr Clarke will be happy

It's a creaming machine

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