50 replies to this topic

[Blind side johnny]

Folks, I can guarantee the landfill site is still there. Its just closed, not disappeared. Generally speaking landfills that have had municipal waste tipped in them will be around for decades after closure. They may look nice and green but the waste is still in there decaying over time and generating gas and leachate. What stage this site is at we can only guess. Hopefully the developers already know. Development adjacent to closed landfills can provide interesting technical issues, and inevitably, cost.

It will be down to the thoroughness of the site investigation, the robustness of the engineering solutions and the exact detail of the proposals. Not impossible, perhaps, but not easy. No surprises that getting planning consent could be the key issue.

...........and just maybe the fact that there was a colliery there before may have something to add to this.


But that nice Mr Osborne's going to get rid of these obstructive namby-pamby objections, so that will be OK.

[EQUALIZER]

If its left to the planners there will be a good chance.What we need is a certain councillor to put self interests aside and go with what will be good for their local club and the residents they claim to support

[Superdave]

OK - Tried to view this with an open mind but could not help looking into Stirling Scotfield LLP (in its various contrivances). (internet search only)

Can't find any great track record of successful development if I am honest. At best they seemed to have entered into some rather controversial and as yet it appears unsuccessful attempts to develop various pieces of real estate (land to you or me). Plenty of proposals and plans on these sites but so far no cigar (mainly objections)! I stand to be corrected but they are not exactly advertising their own successes to date.

I advise caution. We have been here before, please exercise all due diligence!

[Ackroman]

Based on everyone's opinions so far (and having had a sleep) it seems that there is still a long way to go regarding land remediation and the development of what I think is likely to be considered green belt between Kirklees and Wakefield.

Also the large PR exercise for support hints strongly that the objectors are likely to be heard with sincerity and the land development costly and disruptive.

[Simon Kerr]

What are the financial benefits of this proposal for the Rams? I can't seem to find this on any press releases or news articles....

Is it a lump sum up front, yearly rent or bit of both?

[Piggy's mate]

What are the financial benefits of this proposal for the Rams? I can't seem to find this on any press releases or news articles....

Is it a lump sum up front, yearly rent or bit of both?

You get free tarmac on yer car park

[John North]

As I understand it, an undisclosed sum of money will be given to the Rams and Mark intends to put it in trust and draw down a yearly sum to cover the upkeep of the club.
No idea how much we are talking about or how many years the money will last but it seems like a sensible approach in principle.

[Sir Jekyll Stocking]

Also can anyone elaborate on what timescales are envisaged for the various phases? Some of our fans are now of a certain vintage that they might wonder if it will actually be relevant to them in the long run.

I'd say any timescales envisaged at this early stage would be purely speculative.
Getting anything remotely contentious through Planning can take a couple of years or more. The proposal would affect a number of existing houses, so I imagine there'll be a number of nimby objectors. The Environment Agency, Kirklees Highways (and possibly the Coal Authority) will need to be involved, with reports written for their benefit.

The next problem is how to deal with the landfill issues. If there was a colliery there as well there's an obvious danger of shallow mineworkings to throw into the melting pot. How to resolve these "problems" needs to be known (at least in principle), as it will affect the purchase price, which then has to be negotiated.

Finally the Council may well have to be able to demonstrate that it is obtaining "best value" from its existing asset.

And all that's before the builders start on site.
Include time for final designs, tendering and site mobilisation.
Then (probably) the first tranche of housing will need to be built and sold to provide profits to fund the ground improvements etc.

Pure guesswork now, but I'd say you'll be waiting at least five years before you can move into 'Dun Moanin' retirement home (Building 15 on the site plan). Probably more.

[funkmaster flex]

The problem with this is the same as with just about every other proposed development that ever pops up in this part of the world. And that is old people, uneducated people and fear of change - the three are closely linked
Dewsbury has social problems and tends to have many more working class folks than middle class. Personally I don't judge on background, I couldn't really care less to be honest but a fact is that people from the lower classes tend to be less educated. The schools within Dewsbury are struggling, high unemployment, teen pregnancy etc. The point I'm making is that those with the least to say very often shout the loudest. And in the Dewsbury area there are a lot of people with nothing to say but shouting at every opportunity.
I have grown up in a society where people believe hearsay over facts, where people like to find fault for the sake of it, and where there is a real fear of change, despite it's obvious and blatant benefits. I mean I still know people that won't go to a shop owned by a Pakistani, despite it being cheaper than the alternative. It's ridiculous but a perfect example of just how willing people are to cut their noses off to spite their face.
Every time I see a planning application for redevelopment I see a load of people against it, their arguments futile, their reasoning baseless. Simply a case of he said she said so must be true. Tescos in Mirfield bringing cheaper goods and jobs - opposed. Cooper bridge, cutting the horrendous traffic down - opposed. Hundreds of new homes in Thornhill lees - opposed. A second floor for Asda Dewsbury - opposed. I could go on, but the point I'm trying to illustrate is that people round these parts just love to oppose things because they have nothing else going on in their lives to justify their existence.
I think this redevelopment plan will follow the same rich vein of opposition that meets most other plans.

[grumpyoldram]

The problem with this is the same as with just about every other proposed development that ever pops up in this part of the world. And that is old people, uneducated people and fear of change - the three are closely linked
Dewsbury has social problems and tends to have many more working class folks than middle class. Personally I don't judge on background, I couldn't really care less to be honest but a fact is that people from the lower classes tend to be less educated. The schools within Dewsbury are struggling, high unemployment, teen pregnancy etc. The point I'm making is that those with the least to say very often shout the loudest. And in the Dewsbury area there are a lot of people with nothing to say but shouting at every opportunity.
I have grown up in a society where people believe hearsay over facts, where people like to find fault for the sake of it, and where there is a real fear of change, despite it's obvious and blatant benefits. I mean I still know people that won't go to a shop owned by a Pakistani, despite it being cheaper than the alternative. It's ridiculous but a perfect example of just how willing people are to cut their noses off to spite their face.
Every time I see a planning application for redevelopment I see a load of people against it, their arguments futile, their reasoning baseless. Simply a case of he said she said so must be true. Tescos in Mirfield bringing cheaper goods and jobs - opposed. Cooper bridge, cutting the horrendous traffic down - opposed. Hundreds of new homes in Thornhill lees - opposed. A second floor for Asda Dewsbury - opposed. I could go on, but the point I'm trying to illustrate is that people round these parts just love to oppose things because they have nothing else going on in their lives to justify their existence.
I think this redevelopment plan will follow the same rich vein of opposition that meets most other plans.

Think we are all nimbys at heart funkmaster, but by and large you are right. The one big glimmer of hope here though, is the fact that developing houses on this site would help avoid the need for another prolonged scrap with the chidswell protesters - in that respect even the jobsworths at kirkless would surely see the benefits. As SJS has pointed out though, it will surely be a lengthy process, so lengthy in fact that the championship might, by the time of it's implementation be drastically reduced and with different criteria for eligibility. One must assume though, that both the club and developers have put enough time and effort into viability studies to be confident this project can happen. I cant help thinking though, that in the final event, it will be business as usual ie. North Kirklees + kirklees councillors + meaningful help = big fat nothing (except in instances where those councillors have vested interests allegedly).

[EQUALIZER]

The problem with this is the same as with just about every other proposed development that ever pops up in this part of the world. And that is old people, uneducated people and fear of change - the three are closely linked
Dewsbury has social problems and tends to have many more working class folks than middle class. Personally I don't judge on background, I couldn't really care less to be honest but a fact is that people from the lower classes tend to be less educated. The schools within Dewsbury are struggling, high unemployment, teen pregnancy etc. The point I'm making is that those with the least to say very often shout the loudest. And in the Dewsbury area there are a lot of people with nothing to say but shouting at every opportunity.
I have grown up in a society where people believe hearsay over facts, where people like to find fault for the sake of it, and where there is a real fear of change, despite it's obvious and blatant benefits. I mean I still know people that won't go to a shop owned by a Pakistani, despite it being cheaper than the alternative. It's ridiculous but a perfect example of just how willing people are to cut their noses off to spite their face.
Every time I see a planning application for redevelopment I see a load of people against it, their arguments futile, their reasoning baseless. Simply a case of he said she said so must be true. Tescos in Mirfield bringing cheaper goods and jobs - opposed. Cooper bridge, cutting the horrendous traffic down - opposed. Hundreds of new homes in Thornhill lees - opposed. A second floor for Asda Dewsbury - opposed. I could go on, but the point I'm trying to illustrate is that people round these parts just love to oppose things because they have nothing else going on in their lives to justify their existence.
I think this redevelopment plan will follow the same rich vein of opposition that meets most other plans.

The problems in this part of the world is that we have alot of people and you tend to indicate you are one of them.That live outside the town and continue to try to persuade the people that live in the area to accept change and development at any cost.In case you hadnt notice Dewsbury was and still is an industrial town.Its therefore no suprise that the majority of people are working class in fact most of our players would class them selves as working class.What right have you to classify the old people.These fought for their country and helped make Dewsbury that once was one of the most important towns in the country.How can you come out with people being uneducated when you come out with a post like this.You need to deflate your middle class ego because its everybody in our community that will decide whether the plans go through or not.

[Piggy's mate]

The problems in this part of the world is that we have alot of people and you tend to indicate you are one of them.That live outside the town and continue to try to persuade the people that live in the area to accept change and development at any cost.In case you hadnt notice Dewsbury was and still is an industrial town.Its therefore no suprise that the majority of people are working class in fact most of our players would class them selves as working class.What right have you to classify the old people.These fought for their country and helped make Dewsbury that once was one of the most important towns in the country.How can you come out with people being uneducated when you come out with a post like this.You need to deflate your middle class ego because its everybody in our community that will decide whether the plans go through or not.

What's the working class doing up at 03:05am Night shift I hope

[HaroldShand]

The problems in this part of the world is that we have alot of people and you tend to indicate you are one of them.That live outside the town and continue to try to persuade the people that live in the area to accept change and development at any cost.In case you hadnt notice Dewsbury was and still is an industrial town.Its therefore no suprise that the majority of people are working class in fact most of our players would class them selves as working class.What right have you to classify the old people.These fought for their country and helped make Dewsbury that once was one of the most important towns in the country.How can you come out with people being uneducated when you come out with a post like this.You need to deflate your middle class ego because its everybody in our community that will decide whether the plans go through or not.

Incorrect. The only people who really decide whether or not the plans will go through are the members of the Kirklees Council planning department, sat miles away in their Huddersfield Town Hall ivory towers. Personally, I can't really see why any member of the general public would object to the plans. The location of the proposed housing doesn't affect any current business or home owners, and the planned sports facilities are something that would benefit the whole community. Funkmaster does make some good points about Dewsbury (and I'd include Batley in reference to his comments), but I think they're pretty irrelevant to the situation we are discussing.

[EQUALIZER]

Incorrect. The only people who really decide whether or not the plans will go through are the members of the Kirklees Council planning department, sat miles away in their Huddersfield Town Hall ivory towers. Personally, I can't really see why any member of the general public would object to the plans. The location of the proposed housing doesn't affect any current business or home owners, and the planned sports facilities are something that would benefit the whole community. Funkmaster does make some good points about Dewsbury (and I'd include Batley in reference to his comments), but I think they're pretty irrelevant to the situation we are discussing.

The Kirklees Council will also take into consideration the amount of objections raised on each of the 3 developments.Slagging people or sections of the community off does not win hearts and minds.We need to get every body onboard.

[Wakefield Ram]

New houses are needed and every council will have to agree to new houses being built somewhere along the line. Given the location on what is an ex-pit site with direct access to a main road and mostly away from other housing, the proposal seems realistic, but there will no doubt be objections and the developers will be expecting this no doubt.

All we can do is to support the proposal by attending meetings, signing petition etc.. and hope for the right outcome, but it is likely to be a couple of years the club sees any benefit. But at least the club is trying to progress, which is better than just sitting on their laurels and bemoaning their luck.

Edited by Wakefield Ram, 16 February 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Simon Kerr]

If given the green light... Maybe the proposed Dewsbury and Spen council will approve it.

[andyram]

Hope the meeting about the development proposal goes well tonight,shame i can't go because of work.If anyone on the forum goes,can they put any information on here please.

[RogerTRam]

Hope the meeting about the development proposal goes well tonight,shame i can't go because of work.If anyone on the forum goes,can they put any information on here please.

I was at the meeting but don't worry if you missed it as its one of a few so there will be other chances to come along and ask questions. The next two will take place on Monday 27th February 2012 from 1.30pm - 4.30pm at Dewsbury Town Hall and on Wednesday 29th February 2012 from 9.30am - 12.30pm at Hanging Heaton Cricket Club. Tonight there was also talk of a third on the 4th of March after the Rochdale home game but that’s to be confirmed.

The main points from tonights meeting are the need for as many club supporters and Dewsbury residents to contact their councillors / MPs by letter expressing their support for the development. Also we need as many people to sign the petition to show support as well as spreading the word.

For anybody who is going to the Carboot sale this weekend me and a few helpers will be manning a table adjacent to turnstile seven with information leaflets and the petition for people to sign from 9pm onwards.

[grumpyoldram]

I was at the meeting but don't worry if you missed it as its one of a few so there will be other chances to come along and ask questions. The next two will take place on Monday 27th February 2012 from 1.30pm - 4.30pm at Dewsbury Town Hall and on Wednesday 29th February 2012 from 9.30am - 12.30pm at Hanging Heaton Cricket Club. Tonight there was also talk of a third on the 4th of March after the Rochdale home game but that’s to be confirmed.

The main points from tonights meeting are the need for as many club supporters and Dewsbury residents to contact their councillors / MPs by letter expressing their support for the development. Also we need as many people to sign the petition to show support as well as spreading the word.

For anybody who is going to the Carboot sale this weekend me and a few helpers will be manning a table adjacent to turnstile seven with information leaflets and the petition for people to sign from 9pm onwards.

Very disappointed in the turnout last night - not more than forty or so I would have thought. To be honest, much of what was said is already in the public domain, but some interesting points were raised and Mark did make it clear that the council have been involved in tripartate discussions with SS and the club from day one, so with some persuasion they could already be on board. SS seem a kosher outfit, giving assurances to those who might be affected by the development that they would see little or no visual impact after landscaping, and underlining their commitment to the project - as Roger says, it is now largely down to us to convince the occupants of Dewsbury, and it's politicians, the value of this scheme both to the club and to the community - oh, and it sounds like cathy scott is talking out of her hat - as usual. Recommend that last nights abstainees go to the post- rochdale meeting if only to demonstrate they care.

[andyram]

Would be a good idea to have some car stickers or posters made up by the club,this would promote the development proposal.Could be given away at the Rochdae game.One way of getting more people to sign the petition would be to walk around the ground on matchdays or have copies made up so people can sign it as they walk in at the turnstiles.Would get some away supporters to sign it as well.I signed one at Salford a few years back when we played them in the cup,and they got a new ground in the end.